Afr heads for lt1
01-25-2009, 02:39 PM
#1
Afr heads for lt1 OK guys I have a 40 over motor with speedpro pistons I think the compression is around 11.5 to 12:1 with the stock heads. I can get a good deal in a set of LT4 Afr 185s with 58cc combustion chambers and a LT4 intake or should I do the 180cc heads with the 55cc combustion chambers?They also have the 195cc heads with 55cc combustion chambers but have 2.05 intake valve. I think this one would be to big. Just wanted to see what your thoughts are? No stupid comments please I know I can port my stock heads but thats not what I want!
01-25-2009, 02:54 PM
#2
What are you looking to get out of the head swap.
If a substantially lighter wallet is the top of your list then you are on the right track.
Judging from the rest of your post you only want blindly complimentary posts from people who believe in mrketing over results???
If you are dead set on an aftermarket head look at the Trickflows, results suggest it is the best aftermarket alternative at the moment, and hopefully the 21 degree small chamber version will be available soon.
If a substantially lighter wallet is the top of your list then you are on the right track.
Judging from the rest of your post you only want blindly complimentary posts from people who believe in mrketing over results???
If you are dead set on an aftermarket head look at the Trickflows, results suggest it is the best aftermarket alternative at the moment, and hopefully the 21 degree small chamber version will be available soon.
01-25-2009, 03:24 PM
#5
Supposedly the 21degree 5Xcc heads will be available in february.
AFR is more hype than reality. Yes a FEW max effort racecars make them work but generally thay have had more money than research thrown at them and they never bothered to try something else.
Few years ago the fastest NA Impala was a FAST LT4 396 then it was a FAST AFR 391, today there is a LT1 headed 383 stock computer that is MUCH faster than either of those other cars. as well as 2 more trickflow headed cars in front of them both on GM management.
Point being there is a BIG difference between supposed to be best and actual best. I will say the LT1 headed car is the most radical of them, but also possibly the cheapest. I think in the right hands the Trickflows are a good choice but more than most need.
AFR is more hype than reality. Yes a FEW max effort racecars make them work but generally thay have had more money than research thrown at them and they never bothered to try something else.
Few years ago the fastest NA Impala was a FAST LT4 396 then it was a FAST AFR 391, today there is a LT1 headed 383 stock computer that is MUCH faster than either of those other cars. as well as 2 more trickflow headed cars in front of them both on GM management.
Point being there is a BIG difference between supposed to be best and actual best. I will say the LT1 headed car is the most radical of them, but also possibly the cheapest. I think in the right hands the Trickflows are a good choice but more than most need.
01-25-2009, 03:36 PM
#6
I wonder how soon in feb. the new trickflows will be avaliable? I had a set of the older versions never put them on the car and ended up selling them because when I got them all people had where negative comments about them! I like trickflow always have I just thought the specs on the AFRs looked pretty good! Also im looking for a head that I can grow with over time.
01-25-2009, 03:44 PM
#7
You make it a point to bash AFR all the time. They make an excellent product, period. They were a big leader 15 years ago, while everyone played catch up. They revised pretty much their entire line-up recently with the Eliminator heads and are back up at the top or near the top. I'm sure Tony Mamo would love to engage in a conversation with you. Every single test I have ever seen whether it be a Mustang mag a Camaro mag, HOT ROD or whatever, that has a shootout between aftermarket heads, AFR is always right up at the top every time. I have several friends who run AFR's, 195's, 210's, 227's, etc...zero issues, and all of their cars haul ***! No need to send the heads anywhere, bolt them on and go!
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Formhawk94 (01-20-2020)
01-25-2009, 04:02 PM
#9
You like most other's can't tell the difference between advertizing and results.
I know this guys wants a street car one more reason to ignore the fact a few racecars are sucessful with AFR, racecar specs do not make good steetcar specs.
People defend what they have even when the results are poor, most aren't man enough to admit mistakes.
What is wrong with talking about Impala performance, if a 3800lbs car can go 10.5 with a ported GM heads and intake then it seems wasteful to me for someone wanting a 11 second 3600lbs car to look at a more expensive option.
The Eliminators MIGHT be an improvement but a couple magazine articles doesn't prove that.
I know guys who have swapped back to worked GM heads after AFR and were happier and the guy I got my core LT1 heads from wishes he could have them back so he could get rid of the undeperforming TPIS AFRs he made the mistake of buying, even when mine was a cam only car and his had the AFRs and a cam we were close. The winter I did the heads and cam he did a stroker and bigger cam to put under his AFRs, now he can't even come close to me, sad thing is that is an f-body. I don't think the heads are the whole problem there though he trusts TPIS way too much I think the whole engine is junk, it ran a little better when I got him to get a MADZ28 tune instead of his contact at TPIS but is still a turd for what it is.
Only reason he still has the AFRs is he can't afford to put a good head on the engine, pissed away too much on mistakes already.
I know this guys wants a street car one more reason to ignore the fact a few racecars are sucessful with AFR, racecar specs do not make good steetcar specs.
People defend what they have even when the results are poor, most aren't man enough to admit mistakes.
What is wrong with talking about Impala performance, if a 3800lbs car can go 10.5 with a ported GM heads and intake then it seems wasteful to me for someone wanting a 11 second 3600lbs car to look at a more expensive option.
The Eliminators MIGHT be an improvement but a couple magazine articles doesn't prove that.
I know guys who have swapped back to worked GM heads after AFR and were happier and the guy I got my core LT1 heads from wishes he could have them back so he could get rid of the undeperforming TPIS AFRs he made the mistake of buying, even when mine was a cam only car and his had the AFRs and a cam we were close. The winter I did the heads and cam he did a stroker and bigger cam to put under his AFRs, now he can't even come close to me, sad thing is that is an f-body. I don't think the heads are the whole problem there though he trusts TPIS way too much I think the whole engine is junk, it ran a little better when I got him to get a MADZ28 tune instead of his contact at TPIS but is still a turd for what it is.
Only reason he still has the AFRs is he can't afford to put a good head on the engine, pissed away too much on mistakes already.
01-25-2009, 04:21 PM
#10
AFR Fact:
World's fastest LT1:
Rick Intrau. Block: LT1, 398ci. Compression ratio: 8:1. Heads: Air Flow Research LT1 215cc raised runner
A few notables...
Tony Sheppard runs AFR 227's
OutlawZ runs AFR 227's (he is looking to get the nitrous LTx record)
Dave DiLuca "SLED28"-9.11@155, 396 LT1, AFR's, TNT Fogger, 3415lbs
Madman-9.18@154,96 Firebird, 380ci LT1 with GTP AFR 215s (I think "Madman" knows a thing or two about cars
)
Andrey Sokolov-9.48@144 94 Z28 A3 383, YSI, 190 AFR's, 9"
Jason Brisson(OutlawZ) 9.54@130.21, 95 Z28 A3, CSM Race Engines 383 AFR 227's, SR cam, Single plane, TH400, 9", 3.89's, 3400 race weight, NPF single stage plate n2o
Tony Shepherd 9.56 @ 143.68, 93 Z28 , 397 LT1, AFR 227, 3450lbs, 250shot
World's fastest LT1:
Rick Intrau. Block: LT1, 398ci. Compression ratio: 8:1. Heads: Air Flow Research LT1 215cc raised runner
A few notables...
Tony Sheppard runs AFR 227's
OutlawZ runs AFR 227's (he is looking to get the nitrous LTx record)
Dave DiLuca "SLED28"-9.11@155, 396 LT1, AFR's, TNT Fogger, 3415lbs
Madman-9.18@154,96 Firebird, 380ci LT1 with GTP AFR 215s (I think "Madman" knows a thing or two about cars
)Andrey Sokolov-9.48@144 94 Z28 A3 383, YSI, 190 AFR's, 9"
Jason Brisson(OutlawZ) 9.54@130.21, 95 Z28 A3, CSM Race Engines 383 AFR 227's, SR cam, Single plane, TH400, 9", 3.89's, 3400 race weight, NPF single stage plate n2o
Tony Shepherd 9.56 @ 143.68, 93 Z28 , 397 LT1, AFR 227, 3450lbs, 250shot
Last edited by joelster; 01-25-2009 at 04:40 PM.
01-25-2009, 04:58 PM
#12
OK guys I have a 40 over motor with speedpro pistons I think the compression is around 11.5 to 12:1 with the stock heads. I can get a good deal in a set of LT4 Afr 185s with 58cc combustion chambers and a LT4 intake or should I do the 180cc heads with the 55cc combustion chambers?They also have the 195cc heads with 55cc combustion chambers but have 2.05 intake valve. I think this one would be to big. Just wanted to see what your thoughts are? No stupid comments please I know I can port my stock heads but thats not what I want!
Port size is one part of the package. You can easily run a bigger port as long as everything else is up to spec. Look at how many guys run that size port on stock shortblocks. Make sure your cam matches what head you choose to go with. Keep in mind the type of driving you do too.
Oh and don't run the cam I run.
01-25-2009, 07:16 PM
#13
Don't bother with AFR 180/190/195's. In my experience, they flow poo and don't make power. We flowed 2 sets at Thunder a long time ago and they fell way short. If you go AFR, go straight to the 210's. Yes, they will work fine on 350 cid - been there done that.
01-25-2009, 07:17 PM
#14
Afr doesn't make a 185cc head anymore, so i'm assuming you'd be getting an older used pair. I'm sure they would still be more than enough for a .040" over motor. How good of a deal are you talking?
Port size is one part of the package. You can easily run a bigger port as long as everything else is up to spec. Look at how many guys run that size port on stock shortblocks. Make sure your cam matches what head you choose to go with. Keep in mind the type of driving you do too.
Oh and don't run the cam I run.
Port size is one part of the package. You can easily run a bigger port as long as everything else is up to spec. Look at how many guys run that size port on stock shortblocks. Make sure your cam matches what head you choose to go with. Keep in mind the type of driving you do too.
Oh and don't run the cam I run.
01-25-2009, 07:47 PM
#15
You'll want to get something bigger than the 503 if you get new heads. The 503 is excellent for stock heads, but will be too small for heads that flow 25% more than stock.
01-25-2009, 07:49 PM
#16
Rick Abare 9.55 at 141.9mph 215cc AFTER porting Advanced Induction Trickflows PUMP GAS 383 naturally aspirated 3400lbs
Jeff Gilbert 9.0 at 151mph same 215cc after port trickflows 396, hydraulic cam, LT1 intake I believe blower with some spray to cool it.
Forced Inductions AI 200cc headed 355 turbo car makes 1012rwhp SAE and runs 9.8 at 156mph 3680lbs guessing traction is a problem with that mph
Yes you posted fast cars but look at these look better to me.
The AFR stuff you listed can work well on all out racecars like the ones you posted, the heads on the cars I listed are proven to work well on street cars and race cars.
I wll say the most impressive Impala I know of runs the AFR 227 it is 434ci reving to 7200 fed boost and a little nitrous to cool it, not what the OP is looking for.
Jeff Gilbert 9.0 at 151mph same 215cc after port trickflows 396, hydraulic cam, LT1 intake I believe blower with some spray to cool it.
Forced Inductions AI 200cc headed 355 turbo car makes 1012rwhp SAE and runs 9.8 at 156mph 3680lbs guessing traction is a problem with that mph
Yes you posted fast cars but look at these look better to me.
The AFR stuff you listed can work well on all out racecars like the ones you posted, the heads on the cars I listed are proven to work well on street cars and race cars.
I wll say the most impressive Impala I know of runs the AFR 227 it is 434ci reving to 7200 fed boost and a little nitrous to cool it, not what the OP is looking for.
01-25-2009, 07:50 PM
#17
A friend of mine runs the Eliminator 195's on his 383 car. His previous best was a 11.60 at 118 or so on ported stockers. He doesn't have any new track times (yet) but he's put a lot of street miles on it and he swears it feels like a different car.
01-25-2009, 08:02 PM
#18
Rick Abare 9.55 at 141.9mph 215cc AFTER porting Advanced Induction Trickflows PUMP GAS 383 naturally aspirated 3400lbs
Jeff Gilbert 9.0 at 151mph same 215cc after port trickflows 396, hydraulic cam, LT1 intake I believe blower with some spray to cool it.
Forced Inductions AI 200cc headed 355 turbo car makes 1012rwhp SAE and runs 9.8 at 156mph 3680lbs guessing traction is a problem with that mph
Yes you posted fast cars but look at these look better to me.
Jeff Gilbert 9.0 at 151mph same 215cc after port trickflows 396, hydraulic cam, LT1 intake I believe blower with some spray to cool it.
Forced Inductions AI 200cc headed 355 turbo car makes 1012rwhp SAE and runs 9.8 at 156mph 3680lbs guessing traction is a problem with that mph
Yes you posted fast cars but look at these look better to me.
Are you implying that AFR stuff won't work well on the street?
Just so AI knows this....
I WILL NEVER buy their stuff EVER, simply because of a douchbag like you that endorses them. It's like when your favorite football team trades for that *******/problem child selfish player. All of the sudden you don't like that team so much. That's what you do for AI, good job.
BTW I just bought some new heads last week!
01-25-2009, 08:03 PM
#19
I run the XFI 468 Comp Cam. I ran it because noone else had it at the time, and I like to be a little differen than the cookie cutter f-bods out there. It has it's place for sure, just not on a 9-1 compression stock cube LT1, which is what I have.
You'll want to get something bigger than the 503 if you get new heads. The 503 is excellent for stock heads, but will be too small for heads that flow 25% more than stock.
You'll want to get something bigger than the 503 if you get new heads. The 503 is excellent for stock heads, but will be too small for heads that flow 25% more than stock.
01-25-2009, 08:07 PM
#20
It runs ok. It's a mis-matched combo for sure, but it should hit 11.4's right now, without changing anything on the motor. We messed with the tune a little more, and adjusted the suspension, and swapped converters. Who knows, with some good air it might hit an 11.3x.
How much were you going to get those 185's for?
How much were you going to get those 185's for?