View Full Version : Meziere pump and ASP pulley?


Revelation222
10-11-2003, 08:47 PM
I want to get the electric water pump but will it do any good to run the ASP pulleys with it? If not which one would get better gains?

jrp
10-11-2003, 11:39 PM
i dont see why there'd be a problem :think:

Blk98Bird
10-12-2003, 01:55 AM
If you're worried about the pump drawing too much power for the car to keep up with on the pulley, you should be ok. I'll be honest and admit i'm not running this myself right now, but I plan to in the future. I see a lot of guys talking of running some pretty large stereos with the asp pulleys, so I don't think the pump would be a big problem. :cool:

Someone correct me if i'm wrong?

NataSS Inc
10-12-2003, 02:09 AM
you'll be fine. I am on the meziere and an ASP and no problems. The ony problem I could see would be if you have a big ass sound system. And if you have one of those, you dont need a meziere.

68LSS1
10-12-2003, 02:59 AM
you'll be fine. I am on the meziere and an ASP and no problems. The ony problem I could see would be if you have a big ass sound system. And if you have one of those, you dont need a meziere.


LOL-Exactly

Revelation222
10-12-2003, 01:23 PM
My Bad guys. I guess I didnt ask the right question. That was good info though. :cheers:

I meant can you get horsepower gains from both or will one cancel the other out. If they cancel one another out, which gives better gains in HP?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. MY typing skill leave much to be desired so I try to shorten my posts. Sometimes too much I guess :emb:

miner_49
10-12-2003, 03:02 PM
You are reducing the parasitic load on the engine with each. Its an addititive thing. Both means just that much less of a load and more available power. There isn't anything to cancel out.

Now you will have a higher current demand on the altenator but the altenator is a constant load on the engine regardless of the amount of current being pulled off it. The only question to be concerned about is can it put out enough current at an idle or not as it is spinning slower. If that becomes a problem there are better aftermarket altenators out there.

Revelation222
10-12-2003, 03:12 PM
Damn thank you that answered my question perfectly. :cheers:

Blk98Bird
10-12-2003, 06:16 PM
Agreed, that was put about as clear as it can be :). You should see around 15-20 horses roughly from the combination of the pump and pulley if i'm not mistaken. Just make sure the alternator is able to handle it all and keep your battery going and you're good to go!

Cal
10-13-2003, 10:27 AM
Now you will have a higher current demand on the altenator but the altenator is a constant load on the engine regardless of the amount of current being pulled off it


I'm not sure I can buy into this idea; would be nice if it were true. The alternator converts mechanical energy to electrical energy. If you pull more electrical energy from the alternator, it will in turn provide a bigger mechanical load to the engine. This can be proven with a 3rd gen car that doesn't have an IAC system: when you turn on the rear window heater (heavy electrical load,) the engine idle speed slows down very noticeably.

Now if you were to disable the alternator completely while making your quarter mile run, forcing the electric pump to run off the battery, I can see how you would gain some power.

02SSZ7D
10-13-2003, 11:14 AM
asp makes a underdrive/crank pulley--overdrive/alt pulley combo, which is what i got...and my brand new meziere ls1 street pump just came in the mail!

miner_49
10-13-2003, 01:45 PM
I'm not sure I can buy into this idea; would be nice if it were true. The alternator converts mechanical energy to electrical energy. If you pull more electrical energy from the alternator, it will in turn provide a bigger mechanical load to the engine. This can be proven with a 3rd gen car that doesn't have an IAC system: when you turn on the rear window heater (heavy electrical load,) the engine idle speed slows down very noticeably.



Cal, I have own alot of cars over the years. Including some very low hp cars like a 1980 VW Rabit which on a good day put out 70hp. I had a big ass stereo in it. I can tell you that when that current load hit the engine... Nothing happened to the idle speed. When I put on the electric window heater, nothing happened.

The only reason why the idle speed could have been effected by the heater is that there wasn't adequate current available for all the electrical devices in the system which effected the electrical system at the engine causing it to slow down slightly. Sounds like it needed a bigger altenator or it was spinning too slow at idle. This of course is the only downside to using an underdrive pulley. Is the altenator spinning fast enough at idle to generate the required current for the system. Some altenators can generate a slight bit more current at low speeds than others so changing altenators might help some.

An altenator generates current due to due the relative rotation of wires spinning in a magnetic field. The faster the rotation, the more current generated. When the engine is at an idle, the altenator is not generating at full capacity as its spinning too slow. Turning on any electrical device isn't going to change anything as the altenator can't put out any additional current until the engine is rev'd higher. And when the car is moving, the altenator is spinning faster than it needs to generate its max current and the output is electronically regulated to protect the electrical system of the car. It doesn't need to work any harder regardless of the current load as it is already mechanically moving faster than it needs to.

The reason why aftermarket altenators put out more max current at the same rpm speeds is that they are designed to handle the higher current without damage which means more expensive electronic components and bigger wires. So the electronic regulators allow it to output more current. But using an aftermarket altentator shouldn't have a noticable effect on the engine power over a stock one as they are still being spun faster than they need to to generate the additional current regardless if that current is used or not. Its the electronics that keeping it from putting out more current than the electric system can handle, not something mechanical.

Cal
10-13-2003, 02:55 PM
miner, the rpm the alternator spins determines the voltage output, not the current. Current is drawn from an alternator by electrical loads, not sourced. When you turn on an electrical accessory, the voltage in the system remains constant, but the current draw increases, and that increase in current is what makes the alternator require more torque to turn. I agree, at idle an alternator is sometimes not able to keep up with the demand, and at high rpm the alternator spins faster than necessary.

The example I gave was my '85 Camaro IROC. I could turn on the rear window deicer, and actually cause the alternator belt to slip and squeal. With your 2002 Fbody, you can demonstrate the same thing; hook up EFILive and monitor the IAC counts; when you put the heater fan on high, the numbers will increase quite significantly to keep the motor idling at the same speed.

It would be nice if there were some free source of energy, but that hasn't been discovered yet. The electric water pumps probably lower ETs more by reducing rotating mass and drag than my saving pumping energy. In other words, unlike the stock pump, an electric pump doesn't have to spin at 7,000 rpm just because the engine is.

Damage Inc.
10-13-2003, 06:02 PM
So do we need to run an overdrive alt. pulley with the pump and the underdrive crank pulley?

Beast96Z
10-13-2003, 07:33 PM
The load of the pump won't be any diffrent than adding a small amplifier to your stereo. People with amps have underdrive pullies and I don't see them having problems. Anytime you increase load on your electrical system, you'll want to monitor the vlotage gauge. I can't see it being that much of a problem unless the pump draws a huge amount of amps, which I doubt it does. As long as you have a good battety and alt., it should be fine.

P Mack
10-13-2003, 07:55 PM
I think what he's asking is will they diminish each others gains. If the pump gives you 10 hp on a stock car and the underdrive pulley gives you 10 hp on a stock car, no you won't see 20 hp from both. The reason is a lot of the gain from the underdrive pulley comes from driving the water pump slower. Since the underdrive pulley won't be driving the waterpump, you won't see as much of a gain from the pulley on a car with an electric pump vs. a car with a mechanical pump.
As for the alternator, Cal is right. Alternator load increases with increased current draw.

soundengineer
10-14-2003, 02:58 AM
even if you do feel like still worrying...you can get a higher duty alternator...an dthey do make alternator overdrive pulleys...and they do make a voltage step up kit that can help out as well...there are many good options for worriers.