Racer's Lounge - Overall Best Made 1911 style handgun

Hey Guys, I'm looking at a handgun, probably a 1911 style in .45 ACP for home/self defense and was wondering what is considered the all around best made handgun from a quality, finish, and reliability perspective. My budget is up to $1000. I'm personally looking at Kimber models and they seem very nice but haven't actually shot one. Any opinions? Thanks!

If your doing a home defense gun and want a kimber, I would probably go with a TLE II RL... nice gun. I have two 1911s(well ones a 2011), a Kimber Pro CDP and an STI Tactical and love them both. The CDP is my regular walking around SD gun, while the STIs for the range.

But I have to say, for home defense I use a Glock 35 with TLR-1 tac-light, loaded with Doubletap's 155gr Gold Dot (1310fps 590 ft/lbs from a 4.5"bbl)... 15 rounds of fun:D

the 'best' 1911's arent going to be in the 1k range.

however, 'best' is a subjectional term, a guy might think his worn out glock 9mm is the 'best' gun out there. another might think his 3000$ customized tack driving 1911 is the 'best'.

saying that, in the >1k range, i believe kimber, and as mentioned above, STI, are going to best your most 'custom optioned' 1911's that still carry 'commercialized' prices.

Find a reputable custom builder, give him your requirements/budget, and let him do his thing for you. Second best option; Kimber, Springfield, ParaOrdinance, or a Colt Custom Shop piece. And then tune/modify it as time and money permit. I don't personally recommend using a "race" gun like STI for personal defense. I've seen too many of the "bling" features hang up in holsters or break when you need them to work the most. You should also stay as close to original 1911 specs as you can (if thats the route you go) so that in the event you need parts, they will be readily available. As far as I know, only STI double stack mags work in STI double stack guns. I can get good single stack 1911 mags ANYWHERE.
If you do decide to go with the 1911 style gun, be ready to practice with it. It is a "single action" automatic. It will not cock and drop the hammer/firing pin on the round altogether with a trigger squeeze. This means that you will either have to; 1.keep a round in the chamber with the hammer down on it, cocking the hammer back manually when you draw. 2. round in the chamber with the hammer "cocked and locked" -total dependency on your safeties 3.empty chamber and cycle a round in when you draw. All of these require practice for proficiency.

^
i doubt he'll find anyone to spec out a decent gun for 1k.

sti are best known for their race guns, i've checked out a doublestack .38 super and it was unreal (not for a protection gun though).
but they make tons of single stack frames. and the Spartan model is 600$ and it had a better fit and finish and slide action than a new colt i messed with. also, new colts are not made in the states i believe.

I'm not usually one to do this, but here goes. Please keep in mind that I love 1911's too.

Your intentions are a bit vague, but here's my take on things. For home/self defense, with your $1k budget, buy the 18" barrel 870 Tactical for your home, and then a pistol of your choice to carry. 1911's can be CCW'd, but it is a pain compared to pieces that are built for it unless you're a pretty big guy, and a shotgun is far superior for home defense. An 870 and something like a Kahr PM9 or a Glock 27, depending on your preferences, might put you a bit over budget, but not much.

Here is the thing, there is no reason to get a 1000 dollar gun for home defense unless you are just going to enjoy using it at the firing range and showing it off. Up close, at home defense ranges, it doesn't matter how good of a spread the gun is going to shoot and you are only going to fire one time so reliability and accuracy isn't as important as with a service gun.

I don't know how irritable Indiana is about guns... .45 ACP would be fine but I tend to want to tend to steer people to use the smallest cal to do the job in any defense situation due to liability. People have been charged with negligence just for using a gun with more power than the standard cal of that of the local police. It has happened and it could happen again.

If you really want a 1911 I guess Glock is out although it would save you a lot of money. They are cheap, easy to clean/fix, and dependable. Glock isn't even in the same class though. Look at the price tag and the quality of the materials! :) I am not a big fan of the safety on that type of gun but I would own a tactical ii Kimber in a heartbeat. They are great guns. I just think its a lot of $$$$ for a sock drawer pistol! You didn't seem to indicate that you would be using it for anything else.

Why a .45 for IN HOME self defense?

self defense in home = shotgun. period.

kimbers are nice guns though, but if you get one make sure you run plenty of practice through it to get it broken in...they tend to be finicky at first

^^^ My home defense is a mossberg 500 12 gauge. I just have some 1.5 oz shot 6 shot shells I believe. May be wrong... but it doesn't matter if I shoot someone in my home with it, they won't live.

I love my Glock and my 1911 but if I have to pick between one of the two in a home defense situation I will grab my Glock ten times out of ten. Glock always, ALWAYS goes boom. My 1911 on the other hand has had a few jam's almost every time I shoot. My Glock has 15 rounds and my 1911 has 8.

In all honesty I would rather have my shotty over them all.

Trenchgun>1911 IMO

I guess I should be a little more specific. I've been shopping for a handgun for home defense. I have no intention to carry it on my person, but would consider keeping it in the glovebox of the car (with a proper permit of course). I don't want a shot gun or any large weapon, because I feel I couldn't draw it from a secluded location fast enough if necessary and it seems it would be unwieldy in a small/enclosed space or close quarters.

That being said, in the near future, I will have some extra $$ for this, and much like upgrading from an F-body to a Corvette, I viewed going from a Glock to something like a Kimber. Both get the job done but one is much better looking with a better finish and that's the one that I want. I don't necessarily want a .45. I personally like the feel of 9mm but most have said it lacks the stopping power. I like the .40 but Kimber doesn't offer that. So, that brings me to polling the board from members who are more experienced that I am about a nice handgun.

I was seriously considering the glock, but the Kimbers just look soo much nicer, if they are considered as reliable, then its worth the extra money to me for appearance and customization options.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/desertwarrior.jpg
my personal favorite a kimber desert warrior a little pricey though $1500 and it only has a 7rd mag though

If you are looking at possible in home use I doubt that you'd need better than a 2" grouping at 20+ yards since I can't imagine that you'd have a 20 yard shooting solution in your house.

Having said that, you will probably shoot nearly as well with a standard Colt as you would a competition piece with a match grade frame and slide. Unless you are an expert marksman with a pistol I think that 1k for a .45 would be a waste of money in my opinion.

I looked at pricey 1911's and settled on an H&K USP .45 instead. Less expensive, great reputation, and next to my Glock Model 20 it's a workhorse.

I'd suggest a look at Wilson Combat if you're hellbent on a 1911. They have models that can group 1.5" at 25 yards and you can get a custom piece.

Personally I have a Taurus PT1911, with Kimber Desert Warrior grips and I use Kimber mags. I have well over 3000 rounds and never had a hiccup with even the crappiest ammo. Shoots great, feels great, and didn't break the bank. Mine was under $600 including tax and a box of good ammo, you can get stainless ones for just a bit more but they weren't out when I bought mine.

Not as accurate as my marine buddies Kimber, but I've seen his have several stovepipes and failure to feeds. Supposed to be just because of the tight tolerances new, haven't talked to him in a while to see if it cleared up but I'm sure it will.

Wilson combat is another great company to look into as stated above my post.

Here's mine:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/thunderstruck507/DesertWarrior001.jpg

Springfield Armory makes some great 1911's, go check them out. I've got a Mil-Spec that is customized and has seen over 17,000 factory rounds through it, and it still runs like a champ.

well im a 1911 guy as well. I own a kimber, and to be dead honest with you, I wont buy another. I paid 900 dollars for a commander sized 1911 from kimber. Its a gorgeous pistol, shoots damn great when it shoots, but has jammed a shit load. Ive had to swap mags, adjust the extractor tension, and swap recoil springs to get it to run right. Most 1911 people will tell you,,oh no big deal thats about par for the course. I say to hell with that, a 900 dollar gun ought to run right out of the box. If your dead set on a 45 PISTOL for the house, I say go polymer and get a xd or glock .I dont like glocks but they have a hell of a track record. If I were to try and get into a 1911 for budget, I would look into a springfield armory mil spec or govt model 1911. Ive shot a trp and it was super nice. Of course the mil spec and equal models arent real cheap, but cheaper than most semi custom pistols (sti etc). If I had to do it all over again, i would have saved a little more coin and got a dan wesson classic bob tail.

45 caliber is too powerful for home defense... You shoot the intruder then your neighbor across the street too... Tone it down a bit and get hollow point bullets...

This is what I have for home protection.. 357 magnum snub S&W loaded with hollow points... Very reliable, won't jamb and will stop a brother dead in his tracks.. Accurate and easy to manage in short range situations too..

holy mother of jesus on a pogo stick, I am going to do my BEST not to start a WAR after the above comment...too powerfull..are you serious? All Im going to say is do your research..I dont even want to get into 45 acp ballistics etc...do your research...and for the love of God , dont get a 38 for your particular purpose..Im about to self combust here.

holy mother of jesus on a pogo stick, I am going to do my BEST not to start a WAR after the above comment...too powerfull..are you serious? All Im going to say is do your research..I dont even want to get into 45 acp ballistics etc...do your research...and for the love of God , dont get a 38 for your particular purpose..Im about to self combust here.

Couldnt have said it better myself. Guess I'll leave my 10mm out of it too.http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/mike00frc/10mm-1.jpg

I agree, as most people will that a .45 is a good round for self defense with a good hollowpoint.

It's a heavy slow bullet with good "knock down" power.

45 caliber is too powerful for home defense... You shoot the intruder then your neighbor across the street too... Tone it down a bit and get hollow point bullets...

This is what I have for home protection.. 38 snub S&W loaded with hollow points... Very reliable, won't jamb and will stop a brother dead in his tracks.. Accurate and easy to manage in short range situations too..

You are definitely not speaking from experience are you. :eyes:

I had a 10mm Colt Delta Elite, and in the 50+ handguns I've owned at one time or another, that had to be my favorite. The original 10mm loads were awesome, now most companies load them to barely above .40 S&W levels.

I had a 10mm Colt Delta Elite, and in the 50+ handguns I've owned at one time or another, that had to be my favorite. The original 10mm loads were awesome, now most companies load them to barely above .40 S&W levels.

Doubletap and Buffalo Bore, plus a few others, are still making some pretty high performance 10mm loads.

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"
230gr Equalizer @ 1040fps - 11.0" and 17.0" / .62" and .40"

The 180gr Gold Dot, looks nice. :D

since you guys are talking about heavy rounds now. check this out....


http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/model1_50gi_m2.shtml
http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/50gi_cartridge.shtml

in action. dirty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHbDDVbO5iU&feature=related

Everyone is entitled to there own opinions... Hollow tips loaded in a 45. caliber gun would work too don't get me wrong... No hollow tips you bullet is traveling a long way....

I kinda like the idea of a sawed off shotgun for home protection... Gotta consider you just woke up out of a dead sleep and it's dark... The robber is inside your home, I think the shot gun would be the most effecient and effective... Just don't take out the wife or kids...

I have a Kimber .45 and two Glock .40 handguns. I prefer the G27 for concealed carry and the G23 for home defense. The Kimber is too bulky, and has jammed a couple times at the firing range. I consider it a work of art that shoots bullets, but would put my life on the Glock instead.

I have a POS Norinco 1911 that I had a friend do some custom hammer and trigger work on. The damn gun fires like a Kimber now, and for half the price. I carry it all the time and really don't care what it looks like so long as she does the job.

I have a S&W 1911 .40, it's a good gun nearly dead accurate, easy to carry, comfortable in my hand, and easy to disassemble for cleaning. I have had an issue with reliability though, the second to last round stove pipes about 40% of the time. I'm not sure if it's one the springs, but i need to get that issue resolved.

I have a POS Norinco 1911 that I had a friend do some custom hammer and trigger work on. The damn gun fires like a Kimber now, and for half the price. I carry it all the time and really don't care what it looks like so long as she does the job.

POS? When it comes to guns -- made in China isn't a stigma. I have some Norinco in my private collection and they are pretty much on bar if not better than the Euro and Russian copies.

here is my self defense it's not the best in the world or the most powerfull out there but i like it for several reasons. the main reason being in-home safety with the external safety not just a trigger safety.


http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=167125&stc=1&d=1235264698
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=167126&stc=1&d=1235264698

To the OP, if you are not dead set on getting a 1911, I myself would recommend a Springfield XD. It is very comfortable in the hand, has more safeties than a Glock, and are very well priced with good accuracy and ammo capacity.
It's not quite the best for concealed carry considering the square shape of it, but it is a damn reliable handgun. I have one myself in .45 ACP and have Federal Hydrashock 230 grain JHP's for home defense.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I may lean toward a Glock then or one of the other mentioned brands that are known for reliability. I have some more shopping to do. I think I was infatuated with the appearance, fit, and finish of the Kimber models.

the main reason being in-home safety with the external safety not just a trigger safety.


just curious, but how is that safe? sounds like another thing to forget to unclick stumbling around in the dark which could result in getting your ass lit up by someone else.

if i had a weapon inside, it would be ready to roll to the fullest.

and if i had kids, i'd have it where they couldnt get to it. or teach them gun safety.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I may lean toward a Glock then or one of the other mentioned brands that are known for reliability. I have some more shopping to do. I think I was infatuated with the appearance, fit, and finish of the Kimber models.

right on man, im a die hard 1911 fan, but there is NOTHING wrong with a glock in terms of fit/finish/and definitely reliability.

one thing to check out though on the glock, which you might want to go to an indoor range with a rental selection to try a few out, is the grip angle, sights, and safety/trigger mechanism.
i didnt mind all, but the grip angle is weird. you get used to shooting alot of different guns and then swing up a glock and now your pointing at the ceiling.
just my .02.

Springfield Armory makes some great 1911's, go check them out. I've got a Mil-Spec that is customized and has seen over 17,000 factory rounds through it, and it still runs like a champ.

Ya they make some great guns. Im going to start shopping for an XD .45ACP first week of next month.

just curious, but how is that safe? sounds like another thing to forget to unclick stumbling around in the dark which could result in getting your ass lit up by someone else.

if i had a weapon inside, it would be ready to roll to the fullest.

and if i had kids, i'd have it where they couldnt get to it. or teach them gun safety.

it's one thing to do the gun is loaded, click the safety off and pull the trigger pretty sure most people could figure that out. i dont have kids but i like the fact that when im out shooting at the range or at a buddies house that i can put the safety on.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I may lean toward a Glock then or one of the other mentioned brands that are known for reliability. I have some more shopping to do. I think I was infatuated with the appearance, fit, and finish of the Kimber models.

that's why you get a 1911 for your second pistol :D

I went glock right off the bat for down right reliability and then I went for the sex appeal of a 1911

I personally cannot stand shooting a glock, but besides that I've seen them jam before just like any other gun. Might be less common but it does happen.

I personally cannot stand shooting a glock, but besides that I've seen them jam before just like any other gun. Might be less common but it does happen.

I won't lie to you. My Glock is a Gen I Model 17 and once on a blue moon it will jam on the last cartridge. Never never on any other shot. ALWAYS THE LAST. It could be a weak follower spring due to the age or something.

I would hope the unsupported breach of the Glock pistol is worth it though. It is supposed to prevent this kind of thing with the sacrifice of never using the cartridge again for liability reasons.

i've got a Taurus 24/7 Pro .45ACP. not too big to carry, not too small either. definately has knock-down power and only cost ~$410 after tax. i've only had about 200 rounds though it but it's not failed on me yet.

for home defense, i think a shotgun IS going to be the best route to go. you can make some hangers that go in between your mattress and box spring to hold the shotgun. your sheets will keep it covered up and it's right there to grab when/if need be. BUT, on the other hand, one hit with a .45 will stop anything in its tracks. that's what counts. the .45 ACP round was developed for the military specifically to stop someone so tweaked out on cocaine or heroine who would otherwise keep attacking even though they were clinically dead. other rounds at the time (late 1800's early 1900's) simply didn't have the energy to knock someone down like the .45....at least that's the story i've been told a few times.


...and if you miss, it's loud enough to scare the shit out of anyone :D

i LOVE the XD. almost, dare i say it, the perfect pistol haha. not really but the grip, mag size, and PRICE TAG are perfect for me. you can pick up a .45 XD for somewhere around $500, and have a higher magazine capacity than a 1911, and its still sexy looking.

but for home defense i look no further than:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u8/devildoug216/IMG00020.jpg

well if you like the Kimber .45 ACP....i say go with the Tactical Custom II .45 ACP...LAPD SWAT team uses them...their pretty sick guns...throw a light on the end of it and you got yourself a nice home/self defense weapon...but i do believe that a shotty is the best home/self defense weapon

oh and by the way that tactical shotty above looks bad ass...looks like something out of Rain Bow Six haha

BUT, on the other hand, one hit with a .45 will stop anything in its tracks. that's what counts.

...and if you miss, it's loud enough to scare the shit out of anyone :D

1) anyone I fire at will be damn lucky to get only 1 round, they're getting as many as I can put into them, and other than that the whole 1 shot drop is not something anyone should EVER count on

2) yes...yes it is, but the sound of a shotgun slide racking is just as intimidating and will leave you with the ability to hear where the target has moved to

if you're dead set on getting a handgun as a home defense weapon, I would look into the Taurus Judge...6 rounds of either .45 long colt or 410 shotgun shells...load that with 6 rounds of quality shotgun ammo or alternate with some .45 slugs and you have the closest thing to "best of both worlds" you can get IMO

fact is if you need a gun for home defense it's likely that:

1) its dark
2) you just woke up and might be disoriented
3) intruder is retarded for breaking into a home that's clearly occupied or is high
4) adrenaline will make aiming difficult
5) any encounters will be of close range

I want a good combination of "stopping power" and a shotshell increases likelihood of hitting the target too

leaving your HD shotgun without one in the chamber is fucking retarded, don't do that. You wouldn't CCW a Glock without a round in the chamber would you? maybe you'd like for the intruder to feed it to you when you forget to charge it?

self defense in home = shotgun. period.

kimbers are nice guns though, but if you get one make sure you run plenty of practice through it to get it broken in...they tend to be finicky at first

+1, but if you want something fun for the range too I like a .357 mag

45 caliber is too powerful for home defense... You shoot the intruder then your neighbor across the street too... Tone it down a bit and get hollow point bullets...

This is what I have for home protection.. 357 magnum snub S&W loaded with hollow points... Very reliable, won't jamb and will stop a brother dead in his tracks.. Accurate and easy to manage in short range situations too..

just saying, a .45 is only heavy, realistically running under the speed of sound. the .357mag is going fast as hell, both are reliable. but having 2-4 extra rounds that when going subsonic wont hit my kids in the next room...priceless. Not shitting on your parade, but, my wife cant shoot a magnum, but doesnt hate the 45. oh, yeah and a bigger hole is far better than something going fast enought to accidentally hit my 6month old. regardless the bang is gonna make him cry. i like that better than putting a hole through him and the wall after him. IE. slower is better. faster equals my kids get hurt. keep in mind that i use my pistol to get to my rifle. to get to my shotgun. if a perfect world exsisted. my 12guage would lay by my bed. but im al bundyed up so...(both under 2, dont pitch me shit about teaching them firearm safety...yet)

The next best thing for us parents with small kids is a dog. Everything I have is locked up all the time when at home. I have a safe in the bedroom that is at arms reach if I start hearing my dog go ape shit.

Ah jibbby, still making stupid comments in regards to firearms 4 years later

Ah jibbby, still making stupid comments in regards to firearms 4 years later

locking up your shit around small kids is being responsible. if he isnt teaching them about the guns, how they work, etc, THEN hes being stupid.


anyways, carbine or nothing for HD. low recoil, effective rounds, easy to manipulate in a smallish space...

locking up your shit around small kids is being responsible. if he isnt teaching them about the guns, how they work, etc, THEN hes being stupid.


anyways, carbine or nothing for HD. low recoil, effective rounds, easy to manipulate in a smallish space...

Was talking about his comments in regards to the .45 being some super powerful wall penetrating round when apparently the. 357 magnum is less powerful...

Was talking about his comments in regards to the .45 being some super powerful wall penetrating round when apparently the. 357 magnum is less powerful...

benefit of the doubt? lol

benefit of the doubt? lol

Na hes made similar comments in other threads. Apparently he would use an illegal sawed off shotgun as a home defense weapon

I personally cannot stand shooting a glock, but besides that I've seen them jam before just like any other gun. Might be less common but it does happen.

Why is that? Just curious...

I've got a Gen 3 G17, Gen 3 G19 and a Gen 4 G26. Hundreds upon hundreds of round put through each one without a single jam/hiccup. Not saying it can't happen because anything is possible. They have been one of the most reliable handguns I've fired. I've put them through a few different torture tests and they pass with flying colors every time.

Shotguns are not the best weapon for home defense. A handgun is better suited because your target will be within 10-20 feet and the long gun, even a short 18" barreled shotgun is not good to have hanging out there in case someone jumps you while you're clearing your house. Small dark handgun with no shiny parts is best for home defense.

Get a .45 for sure. I personally have a customized and ridiculously accurate Colt Mark IV.......WAY over $1,000. But just buy a dark .45, whatever brand and have a little bit of work so it's reliable. Ramp job for sure.....

.

Shotguns are not the best weapon for home defense. A handgun is better suited because your target will be within 10-20 feet and the long gun, even a short 18" barreled shotgun is not good to have hanging out there in case someone jumps you while you're clearing your house. Small dark handgun with no shiny parts is best for home defense.
.

Just wow. Your theory on home defense weapons is hilarious.

i LOVE the XD. almost, dare i say it, the perfect pistol haha. not really but the grip, mag size, and PRICE TAG are perfect for me. you can pick up a .45 XD for somewhere around $500, and have a higher magazine capacity than a 1911, and its still sexy looking.

but for home defense i look no further than:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u8/devildoug216/IMG00020.jpg

Never understood the white flashlight attached to the gun.......that's where all the bullets are gonna be going from the bad guys guns the second they see the light. You want to be invisible.....not visible.

.

Just wow. Your theory on home defense weapons is hilarious.

Long guns = stupid......if you're gonna walk around and clear the house.

Long guns = ok.........if you're gonna sit and wait for the bad guy to come to you.

It's all preference I guess. When cops go into houses or businesses to CLEAR each room when a robbery or break in happens.....they use their hand guns, they do not all grab their shotguns and go through the dwelling. Handguns are much quicker to turn with and to get on target with. And handguns are WAY faster to reload......FACTS you just have to deal with.

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The best home defense weapon is an RPG. I have three in each room, hallway, garage, attic, crawlspace, and mounted to every car.

Never understood the white flashlight attached to the gun.......that's where all the bullets are gonna be going from the bad guys guns the second they see the light. You want to be invisible.....not visible.

.

Are you being serious? You've now made a couple of questionable comments in this thread. Put a flashlight with a high enough lumen count and the bad guys wont be able to see anything. A flashlight is essential for identifying a true threat in your house so you don't shoot your roommate who was just taking a leak at 3 in the morning

^^Dude is clueless and yes, he is serious.

The best home defense weapon is an RPG. I have three in each room, hallway, garage, attic, crawlspace, and mounted to every car.

This :chug:

is it a rule that every new member needs to dig up a thread from 2009 era and necro post it?
back on topic. 4 years later, jibby is still an idiot. i now have a collection of glocks and love them all, and IMHO a short tactical shotgun is THE go to weapon for home defense.

45 caliber is too powerful for home defense... You shoot the intruder then your neighbor across the street too... Tone it down a bit and get hollow point bullets...

This is what I have for home protection.. 357 magnum snub S&W loaded with hollow points... Very reliable, won't jamb and will stop a brother dead in his tracks.. Accurate and easy to manage in short range situations too..

holy mother of jesus on a pogo stick, I am going to do my BEST not to start a WAR after the above comment...too powerfull..are you serious? All Im going to say is do your research..I dont even want to get into 45 acp ballistics etc...do your research...and for the love of God , dont get a 38 for your particular purpose..Im about to self combust here.

I've already tried man, had the same argument with him and several others. All it does is piss you off. Some people just don't understand. Let the sheep be sheep.

Long guns = stupid......if you're gonna walk around and clear the house.

Long guns = ok.........if you're gonna sit and wait for the bad guy to come to you.

It's all preference I guess. When cops go into houses or businesses to CLEAR each room when a robbery or break in happens.....they use their hand guns, they do not all grab their shotguns and go through the dwelling. Handguns are much quicker to turn with and to get on target with. And handguns are WAY faster to reload......FACTS you just have to deal with.

.

I'm sorry, nothing you just stated is accurate.

I promised myself I wasn't going to post in this thread and I have twice, well three counting this one. I'm out before I start ranting. Again.

I'm sorry, nothing you just stated is accurate.

Indeed

I promised myself I wasn't going to post in this thread and I have twice, well three counting this one. I'm out before I start ranting. Again.


There's a lot of "blanks" being shot and fired in here huh?