ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

As title says, 39 Ford coupe with original firewall and frame. Won't cut firewall which is limiting the available space, the current 350's distributor is barely off the firewall. Its running a 350 now but everything is pretty tight and can't get the airflow really needed to keep it cool on hot days or make the a/c work properly. I figure with an LSx, we might be able to set the motor back slightly further without too many cascading changes and would like to know about your project and what you are using for mounts.

Shawn MacAnanny

iTrader: (12)

I havent seen any threads that i can remember. Maybe you could post pics of the clearence and such of the existing 350 so those of us without a 39 coupe can get a better idea of what you're talking about, maybe make a few suggestions.

ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

I'll give that a shot, need to find a working digital camera. I know one person on here has a 39 but I believe it has a homebuilt frame, not sure about the firewall, most rodders recess the firewall to get the clearance.

ls1nova71

iTrader: (4)

You're probably not going to gain much more space by changing engines. Maybe an inch or so. What are you running for a fan at the moment? Electric or mechanical? You're going to want to put an electric fan behind the radiator, which I'm sure you already know, and that's going to be your biggest problem. The throttle body is going to be pointing directly at it, and the maf sensor is going to be real hard to mount as well. If you use a truck engine, the intake is taller, which shouldn't be a problem, and it also moves the throttle body back a considerable distance. I cut my firewall (33 Ford) and set it back about 3 inches, and it's TIGHT. Your car is a little bigger, but I'm not sure how much more distance you have between the radiator and the firewall. If you could get that measurment, it would be easier figure out if it's going to be possible.

bustac

iTrader: (1)

I'm in the middle of building a 41 coupe, similar nose. I probably have a little more space then the 39. I ended up recessing the fire wall about 2 inches. I'm not up and running yet but I'm planning to have a/c as well. I have an aluminum radiator and will be running a 15" spal puller fan and a 10" pusher for the a/c.

firewall pichttp://www.tkzdesigns.com/auto/images/DSCN0576.jpg

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

If you won't cut the firewall, you've got your work cut out for you. Like* ls1nova71*, I have a '34 coupe with LS2, and my firewall is set back 3" and I finally gave up on using factory FI and went to carburetor. If it helps I can give you a dimension from the flat center of radiator to the flat center of firewall. It's 31". It's not a problem of length on the engine, it's the throttle body sticking out in front leaving no room for a good fan and a decent air cleaner setup that either won't restrict the intake or get so hot it kills the power. If you insist on FI, you might consider the carb type manifold with throttle body. Don't forget, that 31" that I mentioned is with the firewall set back 3". I doubt your '39 has much more room since they both came with the old flat head v8. I originally had an L76 intake and a 90MM Holley when I first trial fitted the engine in the car. I'm including a couple pics that I think will illustrate the problem with the throttle body and also show the amount of room available in the area of the crank pulley. This is with the late Corvette type waterpump spaced forward 1/2" for the accessory drive that I had to fabricate. Not trying to talk you out of it, just trying to make you aware of some of the problems. Ron

ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

thanks guys, I didn't bother with a picture since the ones supplied by Ron pretty much sum up the dilemma.
I was hoping the distibutorless motor and maybe some engine plates that set it back as much as possible would give enough room for an electric fan up front but with the stock firewall as pointed out - its tight.. and even with a recessed firewall it sounds like you guys had a heck of a time. I didn't even think about the TB and that sounds like another fiasco!
The measurements from the back of the radiator to the firewall came out to 29.5". The car has a mechanical fan and there is .75" from the radiator to the fan. You can just get a finger behind the distributor/valve covers and from the radiator to the back of the valve cover it comes out to around 28 1/8" so the measurements are in range.
ok... drawing board time and reality check. Thanks again for pointing out the critical items.

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

I gave this some more thought after I posted yesterday PM, mostly because I used to have a '40 Mercury coupe, which was very similar to your '39.
As I recall, the radiator set very low in that car. The crankshaft C/L was actually about in the center of the radiator. As a matter of fact the fan was mounted to the front of the crank. Is your '39 that way? Do you perhaps have room to go OVER the top of the radiator with your intake tract? If so, you might pull it off. The engine would easily fit otherwise, especially if you used the later water pump. It gives you probably another couple inches. Again, if you use a carb intake, you will even gain more room at the back of the engine, so you can place it with the heads very close to the firewall. The motor mounts are no problem. If you have the usual street rod mounts on your small block, you probably can find plates that will bolt the LS in to those mounts. Pics? Check out the set up that Mast Motorsports is getting ready to offer. It's in another thread in this forum with pictures, something about converting a 6.0 to use carb or something. It's a FI set up. Ron

Capt Chrysler

I have a 406 SBC with a Tune port in a 1936 Ford 5 window coupe. I'm running a Bitchen Firewall and BBC mounts. The reason is I laid the top of the grill back.

I helped a friend do a 350 in a Forty Ford seden with the stock fire wall. No problem, just a little tight. No overheating with the AC on.

Capt. Chrysler

ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

CAPT C - thanks, is the 40 running an electric fan? I should clarify that it has problems in the summer in traffic. I am sure it is because the mechanical fan isn't pulling enough air through the radiator. Taking the sides of the hood off helps some.

Ron, I need to think about this and make sure I understand. I might have to find that camera now to make sure I'm understanding correctly. It sounds like your merc had the original engine to have the fan mounted directly to the crank?

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

It is true I was talking about the original engine. This was my high school car...my first car..sure wish I had it back. The point I was trying to make was that the radiator in it and possibly your '39 sat low enough in the car that you might be able to go OVER the top of the radiator with your intake tract. If there is room up in that bulge at the front of the hood this might get you away from the sharp bends and the hot air and give you a place to put the MAF sensor. If the engine DOES sit where the C/L of the crank is near the center of the radiator, this would mean that the TB sits quite a bit higher in comparison to my '34 in that picture. If you have almost 30", you have plenty of room for the engine and a BIG electric fan if you use the late waterpump on your LS engine. The late pump will be about flush with the f-type crank pulley and even the biggest electric fan you can buy is only 4-1/4" thick. I still think you ought to bolt a carb on it and "git ur done" Post a couple pics if you can so we can see what you're working with. Ron

ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

here are some pics. I don't think the radiator is in the position you are talking about. I think its actually tighter than it looks front and rear. Finger width rear, 3/4 of a finger front!

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

Well....I'm really sorry to say that they are really not that much alike. It also looks like you have as much or more of a problem for an intake tract than I showed in the pic of my '34. I can also see why you are having some cooling problems. That little sucker is really closed in with the side panels and all. IF... you still want to install an LS type engine anyway, and who's to say, it might run cooler just because it's all aluminum...I still think you have room for the engine and the biggest electric fan they make. If your measurements to the back of your valve cover are close, I would guess you have 29" to the firewall at that point. I will measure from the radiator to the front of my water pump, and from the radiator to the front of the crank pulley, and we will subtract the 3" my firewall is set back and see what happens. On a side note, if you have room for a mechanical fan you should have room for the BIG electric fan. I have an older one from Cooling Components on my '34 Pick Up, that works really well. It is 4-1/4" thick but the newer ones are thinner and put out quite a bit more air. The PU has a 340 Mopar and is a "tight" fit like yours and is closed in like yours. Just throwed it in there to give you some options. Ron

ls1nova71

iTrader: (4)

Now I understand what you meant by it runs cooler with the hood sides off, it's a standard, I was thinking deluxe and couldn't figure out what you meant, thought you were talking about the inner fenders.

Anyway, you might be able to do this after all. I measured mine and its about 29 inches from the back of the engine to the front of my homemade 90 degree air intake. the 90 is notched to clear the fan motor, and the water pump pulley is under the fan motor. They each have about 1/2 inch of clearance. You'll probably have to mock the engine up and build your own motor mounts so you can put it exactly where you need it. I tried to get some pics, but it was cold in the garage and the lights don't like to work real well when they're cold, so they're not real good.

And for what it's worth, I think aluminum engines do run cooler. Mine is tight against the hood sides, and they only have the stock louvres, but it never gets hot. I've idled it in 100 degree heat in traffic with the a/c on without any issues.

Buckndol

I installed an ls1 in my 39 Chevy with the stock firewall. I had the same problem with clearance to the radiator. I had only 3 or 4 inches. I built a fiberglass box that fit on the front of the throttle body. It goes up about 6 inches. I mounted the MAF sensor and air cleaner facing back toward the cowl. It may not be the most effecient but I probably won't miss a 3 or 4 horsepower. I can send you pictures if it will help.

ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

thanks for your help guys. sorry, it is a standard business coupe, didn't realize the hood difference! We're going to take a look at the electric fan Ron mentioned first while looking over this project some more. Buckndol, can you post pics? if not - please pm me your email address and I'll send you one with ls1tech in the subject line. I would definitely like to see what you've done

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

First of all, I'm glad to see *ls1nova71* and *Buckndol* get into this conversation. The pictures and the extra experience is worth a lot. I'm always up for learning something for future use. Also, since I just like old cars, how about at least one picture of the WHOLE '39. Now... I did measure and here's what I got....It is 5" from radiator to the shaft on my LS2 type water pump, and 6-1/4" from rad. to F-type crank pulley. I have 2-1/4" from firewall to driver side head and a little over an 1" on the other side. I have my ALT. and A/C mounted up high on my own fabricated accessory drive, but since I can't see *ls1nova71*'s, I assume he has his down in factory location. This makes me think he has Mustang front end as I couldn't do that because I kept the straight axle type front end. It looks like he also is using one of Cooling Components fans like I have on my '34 PU. The fan on my coupe is a Spal and it is 3-3/8" thick and IMO is too noisy. I like the other one much better, and I think it does a better job. I saw that they have a new one that is only 2-5/8" thick and has a 275 watt motor. That ought to move some serious air. Ron

Oscar Will

I used a Direct Sheet Metal firewall in my 1935 sedan, the one in the catalog he lists for a big block. It is recessed 5 inches and I still had a close fit. My LS1 has been running daily for over 5 years now.

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

Hey, *Oscar Will*. Not meaning to change the subject here, but I've seen in some of your previous posts a mention of a stroker with L92 heads and a CARB INTAKE and THROTTLE BODY set up. Any updates on that project? Ron

Buckndol

Here are some pictures of the air box I built for my 39 Chev. The throttle body was very close to the radiator but this worked ok.