blu1

Here is a no BS comparison of a budget header vs a premium system. The old TSP headers are 1 3/4" and the new ARH's are 1 7/8".

I have something goofy going on in the valvetrain that I definitely need to figure out, so any pros feel free to chime in. The car is still at Tick Performance so if possible I'd like to somehow get it figured out.

The setup:
older PRC 5.3 heads (approx 63cc)
7.425 pushrods, patriot .650 springs
Yella Terra RR's
Patrick G 230/236 xfi lobes .613/.609 111+1 LSA
ARH 1 7/8" headers and 3x3 O/R X-Pipe
Ported Fast 90
Revxtreme 90mm TB
Vararam Intake
MAF removed replaced with 4" silicon coupler
magnaflow mufflers
powerbond UDP
42# injectors
Built 3.90 rear

I think thats about it, car has arp 2000 rod bolts as well.



Blue is TSP headers
Red is ARH headers
Green is MAF removed and replaced with a 4" silicon coupler and additional tuning.

So what could be my issue here causing the goofiness starting around 5800rpms? Overall Im very happy with the results and the power throughout the curve from the header swap.

edcmat-l1

iTrader: (10)

That's one ugly *** graph! From that big *** dip, to the drop off.

How old are the springs?

blu1

Less than 5k miles I know for sure. I don't know the actual mileage but its not high at all. I posted this up on hardcore as well

Alvin

iTrader: (2)

You could hear the car change tones during the run and the VE table takes a big dip to keep the AFR up. Some type of valve train harmonics are going nuts

BES Stroked Nova

iTrader: (24)

get a set of new valve springs, and try it again. 5k miles or 1k miles, they may need replaced. and whats wrong with stock rockers? my thinking are the yella terra's may be a little heavy of the valvetrain for a XFI lobed cam...

I have turned my **** 7500 with stock rockers, PBM high rev hyd lifters(same as morels etc etc) manley NexTec springs.... and manley hollow stem intake valves(being a L92 valve is super heavy) with zero issues...

edcmat-l1

iTrader: (10)

I bet. I've had em with bad springs and you could hear the sound change. Right where it drops like a rock.

blu1

So new springs and go back to the stock rockers MIGHT cure this?

BES Stroked Nova

iTrader: (24)

I sure think its worth a try! maybe get a Patriot Extreme gold spring kit and a low mile set of stock rocker arms... IMO

blu1

I still have the stock rockers, Im not one to sell all my stock stuff after replacing it. I will probably go with PAC springs if the old Patriots check out bad.

blu1

Definitely scary looking after seeing the graph. Im going to have Jonathan pull a few of the springs and get them checked. Im also going to switch back to the stock rockers and give that a shot. Once he is done I will let you see what it shows on the dyno.

Looks like I may be leaving a little power on the table for all this.

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

Looking at that chart I'd throw the PAC 1521's in anyways.

BTW: I ran a similar cam in my 346 and loved it. 230-236 112 +2 XE-R. Great all around cam.

PewterScreaminMach

iTrader: (7)

Huh, what is the price difference between the two different sets of headers? There was an improvement there but nothing TOO crazy, especially considering that was with a car that clearly wants as much air going out as possible with a full H/C/I setup. On a bolt-on car, it probably wouldn't even be this much of a difference. I guess if the price difference isn't too bad it would definitely be worth it, or if you're looking for a top of the line setup and don't mind spending the extra money. But if you're just looking for better-than-stock power on a budget, you're doing just fine with the TSP LTs.

MonmouthCtyLS7

iTrader: (6)

I agree I think you wasted your time and money. probably not wise to compare vendore headers either..or defining them by "budget". Most Ls1 LT's are budget, then you have the stainless.

blu1

Well for the ones thinking its not worth it good for you! However I am out to run as fast as possible and am not happy running the normal mid-high 11's in a H/C car like most.

Some of you just look at peak gains and are truly lost, if you think 10-15rwhp and 10-15rwtq+ throughout the whole curve isn't worth it than I have no need to get in discussion with you. If you don't like my thread then no need to post as well easy as that.

The gains are huge IMO from a header swap especially when it still performed like it did with massive valvetrain issues. I posted legit facts with no "tricks" its a true before and after with all the exact facts posted, not sure what the problem is.

StreetStalkerZ

iTrader: (1)

You averaged better rwhp than peaked,i would be very happy with that

Look at how much you picked up by going SD tuned over the MAF,that is what i was looking for,since i changed mine over to SD the car feels stronger and drives better. Your dyno graph proves that to me!

Get the valvetrain lined out and you may have a few more ponies hideing through the power curve.

blu1

Thats what most people look over, all they car about is the printed peak number and not under the curve gains.

BTW the car has always been SD tuned, the gains in the green line were just from removing the MAF housing from the intake tract and replacing it with a 4 coupler and some additional tuning.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

The fact that you gained EVERYWHERE is a big deal to me, especially for a simple swap like headers. It also helps others who are buying headers for the first time and are debating if the more expensive setup is worth it. Plus look at the huge gain between 3200-4500 where most people drive on the street, that's drivability gains.
Can you PM me the link from Hardcore?

s346k

iTrader: (4)

nice comparison. i'm guessing you would've had the arh pre-retune results if you had went sd to start with.

maybe it's me, but i wouldn't have spent that much money for those gains.

blu1

The car has always been SD tuned before and after. The 440rwhp 400rwtq was SD tuned, the green graph was just the MAF removed from the intake tract to remove the added restriction.

I think the gains are well worth the $500 difference or so in the price of a complete setup if you are looking to go as fast as possible. The area under the curve gains are big, I could care less about the peak gains alone.

shiv15

iTrader: (7)

Thank you for posting this! Ive been debating on headers and I'm sold on ARH 1 7/8" now.