Generation III Internal Engine - 109xxx miles and a cam, whats going to go BOOM first?

I have done thousands of searches and have came across both good and bad on this board, lol....so i figured i would just post it up...

installing a MS4 cam, Dual springs, and pushrods into a 2002 ls1 engine with 109xxx miles on it....

will not be my DD after cam swap....with the high lift of the MS4 cam, and using stock heads, what part is going to go out first? is there anything else i need to change out while im in there doing the swap?

thanks in advance

Oil pump and timing chain.

Nothing should go boom unless the motor is already messed up. What year is the engine you might want to upgrade rod bolts if its 98-00.

can you change the oil pump without pulling the engine? i am going to do the cam swap with the engine in the car? i have a timing chain on the short list....and its a 2002 engine

can you change the oil pump without pulling the engine? i am going to do the cam swap with the engine in the car? i have a timing chain on the short list....and its a 2002 engine

Might want to read the sticky at the top of this forum.

hardly anybody believes this and only very expeirenced tuners will tell you this but the ms4 cam is slightly too big and you will want to fly cut your pistons with that, if you want the biggest cam you can get for the ls without having to do this look at the tpis 11x cam or spec one similar to it

well i hate to hear that cause i already bought the MS4 cam.....i dont want to say i dont believe you, but how are all the other people on this board getting away with not fly cutting the pistons?

with stock heads ms4 will be ok you dont have to flycut, u better get that thing dot 2 dot when you install it,{then check ptv} you need a new oil pump and timeing chain 4 sure, with that many miles. i ran the trex on stock heads with no flycuts, its bigger than the ms4,

once again, i checked the "stickies" couldnt find anything that i have already read, or i might just missing what the one person was referring to...but can you replace the pump with the engine still in the car, do you not have to drop the pan or something?

yes you can replace the pump with the motor in the car www.ls1howto.com (http://www.ls1howto.com) go to that site and read they even got pics good luck man

once again, i checked the "stickies" couldnt find anything that i have already read, or i might just missing what the one person was referring to...but can you replace the pump with the engine still in the car, do you not have to drop the pan or something?


http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/772576-got-cam-heads-rocker-machining-questions-about-ls1-ls2-ls6-read-me-first.html

http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=4

had a ms4 on my ls6 with out having to flycut, only thing i would add - make sure you can find a tuner that can tune :D


edit - maybe lifters/trays since 100+k on it

thanks for the links.....

got the tuner covered, not worried at all about that part....

well now i got the timing chain and oil pump added to the short list....

anything in the valve train area to look out for? thanks again..

Man oh man hmmm.... I would do lifters for insurance, Im not saying your stockers wont work but I would do it. But the other side is the heads have to come off and there inlies a problem, Should you upgrade the heads or waste money putting the stock ones back on. Honestly ls6 heads dont go for much these days you can find some for a good price. Are they the best head? no but they are better than stock ones. So there is the gamble shoud you risk a high revving cam profile on stock lifters or spend alittle more and change the lifters and change the heads. Hmmmmm.... Choices, But for all the People who say" I use my stock lifters and a big cam and have no issues" really dont know the condition of your motor so dont be so fast to jump on the wagon.

Definitely do lifters and oil pump, no question about it.

why do you suggest changing the lifters? just the wear and tear on them now, or replacing them with something stronger? im just curious...

Main reason to suggest it is because you're going to a .649" lift cam with over 100k on the stock lifters. The combination of both is a big gamble.

And if you do check piston to valve clearance, which you should with that much cam and that ICL, you'll see why flycutting might be required. It can end up a little close for comfort, tighter than the .080/.100 commonly recommended as the minmum.

OUTLAWZ RACING makes a pretty sound recommendation as well. If you can afford a set of LS6 take-off heads, it's worth it to upgrade while you're replacing the lifters. You're getting a better combustion chamber that is smaller to boot, lighter valves and a better flowing head.

Good Luck!

Main reason to suggest it is because you're going to a .649" lift cam with over 100k on the stock lifters. The combination of both is a big gamble.

And if you do check piston to valve clearance, which you should with that much cam and that ICL, you'll see why flycutting might be required. It can end up a little close for comfort, tighter than the .080/.100 commonly recommended as the minmum.

OUTLAWZ RACING makes a pretty sound recommendation as well. If you can afford a set of LS6 take-off heads, it's worth it to upgrade while you're replacing the lifters. You're getting a better combustion chamber that is smaller to boot, lighter valves and a better flowing head.

Good Luck!

Exactly, pushing stock lifters for that many miles, then asking them to handle an MS4 is just too much in my opinion. I would replace with new stockers.

lifters
oil pump
timing chain
good tune

if your running a 6spd you better watch out for those miss-shifts!!

lifters
oil pump
timing chain
good tune

if your running a 6spd you better watch out for those miss-shifts!!

+1

Of course you'll do springs, retainers, locks and pushrods...right? Do the Cadillac lifters while you're in there. It would suck to bust a lifter and have it ruin your engine.

Think about valve seals as well since you're right there anyway.

The timing chain is a must do.

Good luck.

I would of went with a ms3 with stock heads...

yes it is a 6 speed car!!! mis-shifts, float a valve???? thanks for all the replies....big help!!!

IDK, Hopefully nothing goes boom cause I got a 134K mi car Ima bout to drop in a Heads, cam, intake, oil pump, timing, etc..... the only things Im not replacing is the shortblock and I am hoping that is loose enough and solid enough to hold the extra airflow Ima bout to push through it. If not, I imagine my bearings or rings will let go first. Because of the increase in flow with new heads, gaskets and better sealing valves, I say the rings will go first.

IDK, Hopefully nothing goes boom cause I got a 134K mi car Ima bout to drop in a Heads, cam, intake, oil pump, timing, etc..... the only things Im not replacing is the shortblock and I am hoping that is loose enough and solid enough to hold the extra airflow Ima bout to push through it. If not, I imagine my bearings or rings will let go first. Because of the increase in flow with new heads, gaskets and better sealing valves, I say the rings will go first.

:stupid: 100% agree on this :judge: Mostly the ring but the bearing is very likely too bcuz of the high rev.

I'm on the same boat. I've a 02 M6 with 104k miles and I'm goin to H/C/I the car to 11.x:1. I agree with the others about replacing the lifter. If you leave them, you're asking for trouble. If you can't afford new head and have 241 head, I'll take them to light port and mill. With over 100k miles, it's recommended to service the head anyway if you reuse them.

I dunno if anyone bring it up. Maybe it's a good idea to get new STOCK rocker arm or send them out for rebuild. That's part of the valvetrain most the time people forget/don't care about it.