Dyno Guesses & Bench Racing Forum - N/A power vs. FI

If you had 4 cars and they all had say...500rwhp on the same suspesion, tires, etc.

Which car do you think would win?

Let's try not to get too technical. Just think all the cars are the same, they all dyno the same numbers, but with different power adders.

Personally I think N/A is the way to go, no doubt in a road racer. Drag racing, I'm not sure, but I would still think N/A is the way to go. Unless you are doing 300hp w/200 shot off the line.

This might get technical anyways..just vote

Whatever car that has the good driver mod I would guess.

i said everything was the same..

everythings the same including power curve and torque curve???? i think thats what would settle this. i think NA would win with a more progressive power curve

i said everything was the same..
you said all of the cars are the same but nothing about the driver. :engarde: Also if they have the same driver, how in the world would the race take place? You would have 4 cars and only one driver. lol i'd say whatever car he drives first would be your winner. :D I'm going to go with n/a.

LOL, come on guys. The same driver could drive each car down the quarter and see which gets the best time. Same with laps around a track. I say for drag racing, supercharged. Isn't that what the 4 sec cars use in professional drag racing? :)

everythings the same including power curve and torque curve???? i think thats what would settle this. i think NA would win with a more progressive power curve

that's the thing, which can get more tq in the lower RPMS??...to me that would be the difference

Supercharged

Sprayed cars are going to make hellacious torque.

I'll take a supercharger

Don't care for nitrous...I play a lot and don't want to rely and fill bottles all the damn time

prolly a twin screw car if the suspension can hook it up down low, massive torque through the whole power band, especially down low

I say a n2o car also just because the big torque spike would help it get off the line quicker

I chose N/A, only because I like it that way. Keep it simple.

I vote blown. Cant get enough of the wine.

You would think that the blown or sprayed cars would leave the hardest, but honestly, I have no clue how that would turn out

So all the cars match one another as far as their set up goes, as well as peak power? Their curves are going to be so different from one to the other and some cars will out torque others. Think about the torque figures on a built, naturally aspirated LSX and the figures on a sprayed one. Then compare the bottom end grunt of a Maggie vs. the top end of a Procharger. If you want power and torque peaks to match up, you're talking completely different engines. I don't know; it's hard to say.

Ultimately my money would rest on a sprayed car in drag racing. I think a twin-screwed car would do great in a tight road course or autocross. Time to get back to work. >_<

torque wins races. HP sells cars.

I vote spray. Some of the fastest 1/8 mile and street cars around here are big cube/N2O cars with very well put together set ups. Me personally, I like a strong car with just a little push behind it just in case. LOL. Nothing like the feel of strong hit of nitrous.

FI + No2:devil: Big torque down low with plenty of wind up top;) Should leave no wholes in the power curve:D

FI + No2:devil: Big torque down low with plenty of wind up top;) Should leave no wholes in the power curve:D
*holes :nod: :angel: Whole would imply the entire power curve, which would probably be true with nitrous, but not in that context. K, I'm done now. :secret2:

are you taking driveablility into this equation? cause THAT would be an interesting disscussion, fast on the track and skreet, AND pull through a mcdonalds, order some mcnuggets in the drive thru with the air conditioning while playing the stereo

if that was the case, N2O all the way, drives like a kitten, then flip a switch and its a tiger.

are you taking driveablility into this equation? cause THAT would be an interesting disscussion, fast on the track and skreet, AND pull through a mcdonalds, order some mcnuggets in the drive thru with the air conditioning while playing the stereo

if that was the case, N2O all the way, drives like a kitten, then flip a switch and its a tiger.


no, the op says NOTHING about driveability...i'm not trying to be a dick, but you guys need to read the post

So you're allowing that different combinations will bring drastically different curves, however, peak levels will be the same? You mentioned power numbers, but said nothing about the torque these things make. You've got to get somewhat technicle because each one will act completely different.

So you're allowing that different combinations will bring drastically different curves, however, peak levels will be the same? You mentioned power numbers, but said nothing about the torque these things make. You've got to get somewhat technicle because each one will act completely different.

I'm glad you brought that up. I'm trying to prove a point that an N/A car with the same power (RWHP) as a FI car will pull harder (better ET). I think an N/A car is capable of making much more power under the curve and result in a better (ET). I'm trying to see who would all agree with this statement. Hence I made the poll and tried not to be biased to get an honest opinion. Looks like some couldn't read the op and i'm not sure what was so hard to understand. All the cars have 500rwhp, which should win in a drag race?

The discussion has everything to do with power curves, cuz that's what really matters. And that's the point I am trying to prove with someone.

Sure we could get real technical and say each engine is different. Some need FI and some do great N/A...i think LS motors make great power N/A others may not and thats what i meant about getting "technical"

*holes :nod: :angel: Whole would imply the entire power curve, which would probably be true with nitrous, but not in that context. K, I'm done now. :secret2:

Haha. My bad on the grammatical error. I of course meant "holes":D

Nitrous cars ftmfw!!! :D

A 500Hp NA


I assume the discussion is limited to stock cubes..
500 hp NA is much easier today than when these cars were 1st built.
It's also more impressive to accomplish.
If done right, you get a car that sounds wicked, yet drives OK & gets decent milege.
The power is there all the time but without altering the basic arctecture of the car.
Nitrous is good until the bottle is empty..

A 500Hp NA


I assume the discussion is limited to stock cubes..
500 hp NA is much easier today than when these cars were 1st built.
It's also more impressive to accomplish.
If done right, you get a car that sounds wicked, yet drives OK & gets decent milege.
The power is there all the time but without altering the basic arctecture of the car.
Nitrous is good until the bottle is empty..

Fast doesn't care about impressive. Fast cares about what works. I say nitrous or supercharger.

Sprayed cars are going to make hellacious torque.

Agreed, nitrous and built motor. no contest. depends on "when" you spray though with n2o car.. centrifugal s/c and nitrous is a KILLER combo!

Spray for the low rpm torque boost then the centri kicks.. turbo guys do the same thing spray to alleviate the lag.

My vote is for the nitrous car, especially if you're spraying off the line...granted it hooks.

wow nitrous is that far behind? that is not right, nitrous car should be the quickest. even though a roots blower car makes great flat useable torque it will not be well above the hp rating like a nitrous car will be, in most cases, the same will be true with All motor cars. Most of them dont make lots more peak tq then hp.

nitrous makes torque, and low rpm torque. low rpm torque wins races.

This is what happens when you're NA and you spray too early. With a centri s/c the S197 would have taken the Mach 1/Procharger F1A, built motor and 20+ lbs of boost.

Centri s/c high rpm power and spray (w/ strong rods/pistons).. perfect combo IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRgenanUtOg

i think nitrous would win off the line if you could hook with all the low end torque and turbo would trap higher...just my thought because of the torque curve. alot would depend how high you spin the engine too with the turbo. nothing feels as good as having a na engine tho

All 4 cars have the same power,
then I would take the N/A one.

nitrous makes torque, and low rpm torque. low rpm torque wins races.

and what do you think a twin screw or roots blower does?

if you had say a maggie setup making 500 rwhp at its peak, it would most likely be making 450+ ft lbs anything above 2500 rpm or so

nitrous makes torque, and low rpm torque. low rpm torque wins races.

:bang:

People would drag diesel if that were the case.

Only matters in the goal at hand.

nitrous makes torque, and low rpm torque. low rpm torque wins races.

It is quite apparent that you have no clue about this subject.

As stated, we would be drag racing the SHIT out of diesels with 21 speed transmissions and other items to take advantage of that power band.

Overall power under the curve and Power past peak is what you want.

Spinning RPM is the last thing we want to do when it comes to motor life, but in essence, it is something we HAVE to do. We had a great discussion about this in the 500 cubic inch ERL thread that was made a month or two ago.

Think of Piston Speed, Ring reverberation, valvetrain, etc.

So where do I find a full weight(3500,no driver) nitrous assisted six speed car making a verifiable 500 RWHP to run against?
Let's do a myth buster.

Nitrous can come in at pretty low rpm and carry all the way to top works great till the bottle goes empty.
Turbos properly sized can come in pretty low also and have great area under the curve and good torque.
Centrifical supers don't really have very good power under the curve they put out mostly at the higher rpms. This can help traction problems as they come in more slowly and maybe more controllably then say hard hitting turbos.

Nitrous cars can be hard as hell to hook up and sometimes have to use things like progressive setups.
Twin screw also can be hard to hook up down low they have so much torque but they have very nice area under the curves. Not quite as efficient per pound of boost as turbos though.
Magnuson types have great low end torque and good area under the curve but usually fall off top end.

On the street its a bit different. Nitrous is pain as bottles really don't last that long if you like to play a lot. Turbos are great on the street if you can hook up the power. twin screws and magnusons are fun on the street as well, to me prochargers are more fun at the track and maybe highway type of racing.

No remember you can also combine power adders to good effect. nitrous helps elminate any turbo lag and works fine with supers as well and of course fine with NA.

The main advantage to supers and turbos is that you can go far beyond the power levels you can get with NA. 500rwhp is way way too easy with a decent turbo or super setup. 700rwhp is pretty easy and 1000rwhp or more is possible. Can't get those power levels NA. And really most wouldn't want to go much past a 300 shot of spray so again turbos and supers rule for super high hp builds.

There is a decent dyno ls1 book on the market. Forget name I had it but gave it to friend.
I has lots of charts so you can compare the various power adders. They said flat out turbos beat supers for efficiency but twin screws and roots types can win for really low end torque. Nitrous is also great but expensive and don't last long.

Had some actual experience a couple years back ,one buddy had near stock ati lt1 with think around 400rwhp or so and other buddy had ls1 SS with heads,cam,headers and bolt ons. The ls1 consistently beat the ati lt1. The lt1 owner was pissed and tried to crank more boost into his engine around 8 or so. He blew his engine. Ringlands went bye bye.
So in that instance the NA car won but no dyno numbers on the lt1. The ls1 has done 420rwhp.forget the torque. He has added nitrous to it now.

that's the thing, which can get more tq in the lower RPMS??...to me that would be the difference

roots blower or spray would provide you with the best torque curve. in all honesty the question is way to vague.

I'm glad you brought that up. I'm trying to prove a point that an N/A car with the same power (RWHP) as a FI car will pull harder (better ET). I think an N/A car is capable of making much more power under the curve and result in a better (ET). I'm trying to see who would all agree with this statement. Hence I made the poll and tried not to be biased to get an honest opinion. Looks like some couldn't read the op and i'm not sure what was so hard to understand. All the cars have 500rwhp, which should win in a drag race?

The discussion has everything to do with power curves, cuz that's what really matters. And that's the point I am trying to prove with someone.

Sure we could get real technical and say each engine is different. Some need FI and some do great N/A...i think LS motors make great power N/A others may not and thats what i meant about getting "technical"

your tapped if you thing that your n/a car is making more power under the curve than a roots blown car. also in all honesty power under the curve isnt as big of a factor as you would think. how much time do you spend under the curve in a 1/4 mile race??

everythings the same including power curve and torque curve???? i think thats what would settle this. i think NA would win with a more progressive power curve

If we're talking stock cubes, it'd probably have the WORST power curve actually, a small powerband very high in the rpm range compared to the other choices.


Area under the curve strictly, positive displacement supercharger or small sized turbos wins...


Nitrous is a totally different story.

your tapped if you thing that your n/a car is making more power under the curve than a roots blown car. also in all honesty power under the curve isnt as big of a factor as you would think. how much time do you spend under the curve in a 1/4 mile race??

You're absolutely right... But more curve equals more fun! At least for me. :)

You're absolutely right... But more curve equals more fun! At least for me. :)

i do to for street driving

I vote blown. Cant get enough of the wine.

+1


ANd nice car........I had one too.....take your roll bar off and that was just it....Your's is teh first MG Vert I've seen outside of mine.:chug:

nice sig...lol

A 500 hp NA car and a 500 hp FI car are completely different animals. I had a 500+ rwhp na motor in my car that I sprayed with another 350 or so of nitrous. My car was a true daily driver with AC, navigation, stereo, power everything but I was constantly wanting it to be quiter. As stated above, power under the curve is where it's at. Assuming that you could hook all the cars equally, the roots style blower will have a very flat power and torque curve and would crush the 60' time of the NA car.

The only determining common factor being 500rwhp, I would go with the N/A engine. Everything else being the equal, the car that could bring it's full 500hp to bear earliest would probably win. An FI or Nitrous engine that peaks out at 500 horses is usually weaker down low than an N/A engine with the same peak. Interesting question though.