Solid roller cam with hydraulic lifters gained 28 rwhp!
#1
Solid roller cam with hydraulic lifters gained 28 rwhp!
I got a call several weeks ago from Coach 02 Z28 A3. He was going to be installing a fresh set of valve springs and timing chain on his 347 cubic inch bracket motor and thought a cam swap might be in order.
Coach's motor is a 13.5:1 forged 347 from LME that runs ported 5.3L truck heads, FAST intake, and a Cam Motion 244/249 .643/.644 112LSA +0 advance cam. He also runs a TH350 trans with a 5000 stall race converter. Needless to say, it's not built as a dyno queen, but a strip warrior. It's been a solid combo that has taken Coach to consistent 10.20s at 130mph. On 98Aggie's dyno, the combo put out 470rwhp/408rwtq.
After spending time with Billy Godbold at Comp Cams (their chief lobe designer) in December, he mentioned a family of solid roller lobes that were compatible with hydraulic lifters. He said very few people in the country were running them. According to Billy, these lobes have ramp rates that aren't as aggressive as some of the "square" hydraulic lobes, but they would rpm much better.
So after looking at Coach's current set, I decided that we could pick up some mid-range by having an earlier intake valve closing point and by using a longer exhaust lobe (with a higher revving solid roller lobe), we could carry power better after peak. The approach worked. The cam is a 245/254 .643/.648 111LSA +3 advance solid roller cam running stock rockers and Comp R hydraulic lifters. One half turn of pre-load. AFR 8019 dual valve springs.
The chart below shows the before and after of the cam swap. Same dyno. If you are wondering why there is a dual peak, remember, this is an unlocked torque converter. The 5000 stall converter does not couple up until 6500 rpm. After that, it's fairly efficient. Check out the better mid-range, the higher peak power and the extended power range. For those who can't read the chart, the before power was 470rwhp/408rwtq and the after was 498.9 rwhp/421.6 rwtq. All this from a cam that to the uneducated would look almost exactly like the one that got taken out. The moral of the story, don't look just at duration and lift when choosing a cam.
Coach's motor is a 13.5:1 forged 347 from LME that runs ported 5.3L truck heads, FAST intake, and a Cam Motion 244/249 .643/.644 112LSA +0 advance cam. He also runs a TH350 trans with a 5000 stall race converter. Needless to say, it's not built as a dyno queen, but a strip warrior. It's been a solid combo that has taken Coach to consistent 10.20s at 130mph. On 98Aggie's dyno, the combo put out 470rwhp/408rwtq.
After spending time with Billy Godbold at Comp Cams (their chief lobe designer) in December, he mentioned a family of solid roller lobes that were compatible with hydraulic lifters. He said very few people in the country were running them. According to Billy, these lobes have ramp rates that aren't as aggressive as some of the "square" hydraulic lobes, but they would rpm much better.
So after looking at Coach's current set, I decided that we could pick up some mid-range by having an earlier intake valve closing point and by using a longer exhaust lobe (with a higher revving solid roller lobe), we could carry power better after peak. The approach worked. The cam is a 245/254 .643/.648 111LSA +3 advance solid roller cam running stock rockers and Comp R hydraulic lifters. One half turn of pre-load. AFR 8019 dual valve springs.
The chart below shows the before and after of the cam swap. Same dyno. If you are wondering why there is a dual peak, remember, this is an unlocked torque converter. The 5000 stall converter does not couple up until 6500 rpm. After that, it's fairly efficient. Check out the better mid-range, the higher peak power and the extended power range. For those who can't read the chart, the before power was 470rwhp/408rwtq and the after was 498.9 rwhp/421.6 rwtq. All this from a cam that to the uneducated would look almost exactly like the one that got taken out. The moral of the story, don't look just at duration and lift when choosing a cam.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#4
Keep in mind, 499rwhp through an unlocked 5000 stall converter and TH350 with slicks on the rear is soaking up a LOT of power. Had this been a manual transmission setup, the numbers would have most likely been in the 560-580rwhp range.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#6
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The chart below shows the before and after of the cam swap. Same dyno. If you are wondering why there is a dual peak, remember, this is an unlocked torque converter. The 5000 stall converter does not couple up until 6500 rpm. After that, it's fairly efficient. Check out the better mid-range, the higher peak power and the extended power range. For those who can't read the chart, the before power was 470rwhp/408rwtq and the after was 498.9 rwhp/421.6 rwtq. All this from a cam that to the uneducated would look almost exactly like the one that got taken out. The moral of the story, don't look just at duration and lift when choosing a cam.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure how you are getting the results shown on your graph? When making a power pull on the dino with 4L60 & stall converter I unplug (or pull the fuse) to put the tranny in manual shift. bring it up to about 3,000 in 2nd and shift to 3rd (which is 1 to 1)then stand on it till the revlimiter kicks in. For me this graphs a good solid pull all the way through. How are you doing yours?
[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure how you are getting the results shown on your graph? When making a power pull on the dino with 4L60 & stall converter I unplug (or pull the fuse) to put the tranny in manual shift. bring it up to about 3,000 in 2nd and shift to 3rd (which is 1 to 1)then stand on it till the revlimiter kicks in. For me this graphs a good solid pull all the way through. How are you doing yours?
#7
I'm not sure how you are getting the results shown on your graph? When making a power pull on the dino with 4L60 & stall converter I unplug (or pull the fuse) to put the tranny in manual shift. bring it up to about 3,000 in 2nd and shift to 3rd (which is 1 to 1)then stand on it till the revlimiter kicks in. For me this graphs a good solid pull all the way through. How are you doing yours?
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Trending Topics
#9
Coach plans on changing springs again after 200 passes. In truth, this combo is milder on the springs than a number of hydraulic lobes on the market. If this were in a street car, I'd think you could easily get 15-20k miles out of a spring set.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#10
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245/254 .643/.648 111LSA +3 advance solid roller cam running stock rockers and Comp R hydraulic lifters
Wow Pat all that in a 347......thank god its a bracket racer, and not a street car.
Anyways, very nice gains. Should we assume this bracket racer is going to dip into the 9.9's now ??
Wow Pat all that in a 347......thank god its a bracket racer, and not a street car.
Anyways, very nice gains. Should we assume this bracket racer is going to dip into the 9.9's now ??
#16
TECH Fanatic
Maybe it's the hydraulic roller lifter on a solid flat tappet combo? AKA the HRSF lobes. They are on an unpublished page in the CC Master Lobe catalog Addendum LXIX.
With your cam guy anything is possible.
How does it run?
Last edited by Old SStroker; 03-15-2009 at 11:07 AM.