View Full Version : PayPal strikes again!!!


Nick_Rapitis
03-10-2009, 07:37 AM
like cajun i wasnt sure were to post this thread but heres there story anyway....i was selling something on ebay...it was new but the package had been opened and the shrink wrap was gone. I clearly stated this in the auction and also stated that I do not accept returns unless i send the wrong item. well when th ebuyer got it they said they wanted their money back because the item was open...they kept giving me a bunch of shit so i said take it up wih paypal because its not my fault you didnt read the description or return policy. So guess what, they did take it up with paypal and guess who paypal decided would get a full refund including original shipping and all fees??? that dumb shit that didnt read the description...it pisses me off because i did everything right and still end up getting screwed because of some ass hole and a shitty company...im canceling my account today!!!...oh and if anyone is interested the persons email is r little muel @ aol .com without the spaces of course...

ahhwataday
03-10-2009, 08:49 AM
they got the money back? or your account showed negative? You gotta put the money straight into yuor bank account as soon as you get it. But that fucked up. You should call and raise hell for 40 days and 40 nights. Tell them the guy didnt ship you the item back too

108dragon
03-10-2009, 09:22 AM
Bitchin to them won't do any good. You'll just get the automated reciting of thier user rules and regulations.
As long as you understand that eBay and paypal set thier business up so that they are judge, jury, and executioner in EVERY case, you can roll with them without regret. Most people have a problem with that. And therein lies the problem.
I've posted before that eBay OWNS paypal. It is EXACTLY like a mortgage company owning a non federally regulated bank and then railroading all thier clients to use thier bank. This is illegal. But ebay and paypal are for some reason allowed to operate like this nontheless.

miller456
03-10-2009, 09:33 AM
You do know that if you ask your buyer to take it up with PayPal, that your return policy no longer applies right? If PayPal gets involved then you are asking the buyer to take other means to resolve the situation other than whats listed in eBay. PayPal does not return a partial amount for eBay purchases, the buyer is covered for the full amount now ONLY for eBay purchases though. Also general rule of thumb is MOST not as described cases are going to be in the buyer's favor, the buyer will be asked to ship the item back for a refund.

Nick_Rapitis
03-10-2009, 09:44 AM
well i dont have any money in the paypal account now just the bank account i use....and i dont plan on giving any money back either

miller456
03-10-2009, 09:49 AM
well i dont have any money in the paypal account now just the bank account i use....and i dont plan on giving any money back either

Was the money already returned to the buyer, or is the case awaiting the buyer to return the product to you and have the funds been placed on hold or do you have neg. balance in your PayPal account right now? If you do not have the money to return to the buyer, your PayPal account will remain negative and you will eventually be sent to a collection agency for the amount, just wanted to let you know.

Nick_Rapitis
03-10-2009, 10:03 AM
if i never receive the item then i cannot return the money...and its negative right now...

miller456
03-10-2009, 10:21 AM
if i never receive the item then i cannot return the money...and its negative right now...

this is correct the buyer has to provide a tracking number showing delivery to your address, and pay to have the item returned back to you in order to receive a refund. The only instance where this may differ, is if the buyer files a chargeback with there credit card company. The reason its negative is b/c you withdrew the funds to your bank and when a case is file the funds are taken and placed on hold, so if no funds are available you will have a neg. balance.

Nick_Rapitis
03-10-2009, 10:25 AM
what about the original shipping and all ebay fees and all that? i get screwed out of em?

miller456
03-10-2009, 10:37 AM
replied to your pm

miller456
03-10-2009, 11:01 AM
At least they have to jump through some hoops to get a refund. Still sucks a$$ though. Nick listed the item "accurately" and ALL the terms as such and is still getting the s*** put to him over it. I guess his only mistake was telling the buyer to get paypal involved.. the ol' judge/jury/executioner thing again.
btw, no, you will not be reembursed any ebay, paypal, shipping, overdraw, or any other incurred fees.. whether you or paypal incurred them. What? You didn't read your "user agreement"? Your user agreement allows paypal/ebay to tie up your funds in limbo indefinately. If you're lucky you might get a "sorry for your inconvenience", but even that is doubtful.
Just be thankful the buyer didn't claim he never received the item. It gets even lovelier when that happens. The burden of proof is on you and your funds are tied up till the buyer claims that he received the item... whether he actually did or not.

You my friend are informing people of a TON of incorrect information once again and the miss conception of how paypal actually works gets comments like this posted everywhere, therefore people believe it. For people that do not work here and are not avid paypal users you will never understand how often this company changes. For one, in a non receipt case all you have to do is provide valid tracking as a seller to the address listed in the receipt of the payment, ship the item within 7 days of receiving payment, anything over $250 also requires signature confirmation and tracking must show delivery. If you follow those steps you will be covered for non receipt cases, PayPal has not and will never just sit and wait till the buyer says they have it. The only time that happens is when you ship internationally and you can not track those packages online so they must confirm with the buyer if the item has been received or not. Also paypal can only hold funds for up to 180 days, at which point an email is sent saying your remaining available funds are open for withdrawl.

Also when I viewed the item in question on this thread, he took a copy and paste description of the item he was selling, then also inserted his own description below that. His description did contradict what the copy and paste description was. Generally not as described cases will be won in a buyers favor but not always. In this case the buyer is responsible for returning the item for a refund and providing valid tracking. I'm not saying Nick isn't a good guy by anymeans I'm sure he is, this is just what i viewed when I looked at things.

Shockrock3
03-10-2009, 11:08 AM
Can you close your PayPal account down and reopen it under a different email about a month later or so or is your "banking info" flagged?

miller456
03-10-2009, 11:12 AM
Can you close your PayPal account down and reopen it under a different email about a month later or so or is your "banking info" flagged?

Not sure what you are asking here, you are still responsible for any neg. balances that occur on a closed account, and the account wont be able to be closed with a neg. balance. You could attempt to open another account, but that account may be flagged and linked to the other one, therefore the new one may be restricted from use until the other account was taken care of.

Nick_Rapitis
03-10-2009, 11:12 AM
to put it in simpler terms...say i was selling a strut tower bar...i have never used the piece but i did take the nuts out of the box and plan on keeping them...if i put the manufactureres description which states that all hardware is included but then in my own description on the same page say that the nuts have been removed from the package but the strut tower bar is still new and unused i am not contradicting myself by any means...it is perfectly clear what is being sold...if the buyer doesnt understand it then they shouldnt buy it or at least ask questions before buying it...its as simple as that...

miller456
03-10-2009, 11:16 AM
so by using "copy and paste" description and then clarifing in my own description that the item was opened one someone was used i contradict myself? no, thats not the case to anyone with half a brain...the copy and paste description was the description on the back of the case. i clearly stated that the item i was selling no longer meets that description...its the buyers fault he didnt read that part...thats ok, you paypal people are full of it and dont care about the people who have accounts with you...my lawyer is gonna have a field day with this...i hope you guys have as much fun once he gets involved...

Actually yes you did, in the copy and paste description is says:
LIMITED EDITION - Three New "Halo 3" Multiplayer Maps Be one of the first to experience the Mythic Map Pack from Bungie which includes three new maps, Assembly, Orbital and Sandbox

in your description is says:
It comes with three different codes however the halo 3 mythic map code has been used. Happy Bidding!

The copy and paste description says it comes with all three, your says it now comes with only two since one has been used. Don't ask for assitance if all your going to do is get upset. Also you can have fun with your lawyer over a $69 item.

bearcatt
03-10-2009, 11:17 AM
As a merchant for the last 11 years...

The merchant, vendor or seller usually will end up being responsible.
This is the way banks and card lenders have the system set up.

1.) The buyer only has to deny the charges, 2.) claim they never received the merchandise or 3.) claim the merchandise wasn't as promised.

The buyer legally has 180 days to do so.

I know it's unfair to a legitimate seller but these stipulations were put
in place because of all the fraud over the last few years.

This not only protects the buyer, IT ULTIMATELY PROTECTS THE BANKS
AND CREDIT CARD COMPANIES AS THEY WILL GET THIER MONEY REGARDLESS.

I know it sucks but that's the way it is .... END OF STORY.



.

miller456
03-10-2009, 11:18 AM
to put it in simpler terms...say i was selling a strut tower bar...i have never used the piece but i did take the nuts out of the box and plan on keeping them...if i put the manufactureres description which states that all hardware is included but then in my own description on the same page say that the nuts have been removed from the package but the strut tower bar is still new and unused i am not contradicting myself by any means...it is perfectly clear what is being sold...if the buyer doesnt understand it then they shouldnt buy it or at least ask questions before buying it...its as simple as that...

I do agree that your description is very easy to understand, but paypal is VERY cut and dry on these cases, if it states two different things just as in your auction, its instant win for the buyer. Anyone with common sense would understand your listing.

108dragon
03-10-2009, 11:46 AM
You my friend are informing people of a TON of incorrect information once again and the miss conception of how paypal actually works gets comments like this posted everywhere, therefore people believe it. For people that do not work here and are not avid paypal users you will never understand how often this company changes. For one, in a non receipt case all you have to do is provide valid tracking as a seller to the address listed in the receipt of the payment, ship the item within 7 days of receiving payment, anything over $250 also requires signature confirmation and tracking must show delivery. If you follow those steps you will be covered for non receipt cases, PayPal has not and will never just sit and wait till the buyer says they have it. The only time that happens is when you ship internationally and you can not track those packages online so they must confirm with the buyer if the item has been received or not. Also paypal can only hold funds for up to 180 days, at which point an email is sent saying your remaining available funds are open for withdrawl.

Also when I viewed the item in question on this thread, he took a copy and paste description of the item he was selling, then also inserted his own description below that. His description did contradict what the copy and paste description was. Generally not as described cases will be won in a buyers favor but not always. In this case the buyer is responsible for returning the item for a refund and providing valid tracking. I'm not saying Nick isn't a good guy by anymeans I'm sure he is, this is just what i viewed when I looked at things.

You are full of horses***. The "user agreement" covering this states that I have to send the item by EXPENSIVE ebay defined shipping method, which as often as not, the buyer DOES NOT want to pay for and opts out of. And this was the case in my situation(s). The package shipped from Colorado to Tennessee... not internationally. It took 14 days to get there by the shipping method the BUYER insisted on. I provided tracking information, ALL of my email correspondance with the buyer, and proof of my shipping of the item and I STILL had to wait until the buyer stated that the item had arrived before the case was closed and my account brought out of the red. And your definition of "covered" is "ebay won't put the s*** to you". Not "covered" in the sense that ebay and paypal will have your back.
In Nick's case, he may have pasted a description. But his secondary description contradicted the first only in modification of what was there and his terms for sale. This is OBVIOUS from his posts here. I don't have to see the listing to know that much. Obviously, the buyer didn't bother reading the entire listing or ordered/purchased the wrong part and wanted a refund...which was also addressed in the listing.
Either way, paypal has no business interfering with a process that it can ONLY negatively effect. What? You think you helped Nick tying up his funding? Paypal told me that they will only reimburse the buyer what they can collect from the seller. If this is the case, then this buyer will receive what? You have effectively helped WHO? And if paypal can only tie up funding for 180 days, this is a recent change. And probably only then because it was litigationally forced.
And if I am believed, it is only because I say what I do and then back it up with evidence. I have not stupidly deleted anything from my computer or hotmail. I keep files from my auctions (buying and selling) from as far back as 1998.

108dragon
03-10-2009, 11:59 AM
As a merchant for the last 11 years...

The merchant, vendor or seller usually will end up being responsible.
This is the way banks and card lenders have the system set up.

1.) The buyer only has to deny the charges, 2.) claim they never received the merchandise or 3.) claim the merchandise wasn't as promised.

The buyer legally has 180 days to do so.

I know it's unfair to a legitimate seller but these stipulations were put
in place because of all the fraud over the last few years.

This not only protects the buyer, IT ULTIMATELY PROTECTS THE BANKS
AND CREDIT CARD COMPANIES AS THEY WILL GET THIER MONEY REGARDLESS.

I know it sucks but that's the way it is .... END OF STORY.



.

Like I said, if you FULLY read the user agreement, can even understand it, and can live with always being on the crap end of the stick to make or save a few bucks, than all is good on planet eBay.
Most people don't understand and can't follow the user agreement because the majority of it involves rules in place to cover paypal and ebay should the situation ever arise for the implimentation of said rules. The fact that the "user" -in most cases- has never had to deal with such altercation is the bases for them not understanding the rules, thier meaning, how they effect the user and when, and why they are even in place. ...ergo, they simply go to the bottom of the page and hit "agree".

Nick_Rapitis
03-10-2009, 12:17 PM
I do agree that your description is very easy to understand, but paypal is VERY cut and dry on these cases, if it states two different things just as in your auction, its instant win for the buyer. Anyone with common sense would understand your listing.

regarding your other post...its not about the money, its the principle of it...i can live without $69 ....

regarding this post...if anyone with common sense would understand my listing why am i the one getting screwed??? because thats the policy? then the policy is wrong...its that simple....just cuz its the current policy doesnt mean its the right policy

miller456
03-10-2009, 12:33 PM
You ship the item by the method you choose in your listing man, not what the buyer chooses. PayPals user agreement states that an item over $250 requires signature and delivery confirmation. If you choose not to follow that rule as a seller then its your own fault. You are all talk of the user agreement yet you dont even know what it says. You must use PayPal's user agreement and yes im all full of **** ive only worked here for 3 years I know nothing right. I dont go telling you, that you know nothing about your job, so dont start telling that with me. In your instance you agreed upon the cheaper shipping method, im sure your item was over $250 therefore the buyer had to confirm delivery b/c you didnt have signature confirmation (your fault not paypals). I already explained this earlier to you.

Now items on PayPal are covered up to the full amount not $200 or $2000 like they were before, so if the item is purchased through eBay and paypal is used to pay, as a buyer your covered for the full amount now. The only time paypal will recover a partial or no amount is if the item is not purchased through ebay in which there is no buyer protection. I read nicks listing and as i stated earlier, its very easy for most people to understand, however fact of the matter it still has a contradictory statement. I'm not going to continue this argument with you anymore and you can continue posting if you like, I simply ask that you stop posting what you think paypal is going to do b/c your knowledge of paypal is incorrect in many ways.

bearcatt
03-10-2009, 12:35 PM
Like I said, if you FULLY read the user agreement, can even understand it, and can live with always being on the crap end of the stick to make or save a few bucks, than all is good on planet eBay.
Most people don't understand and can't follow the user agreement because the majority of it involves rules in place to cover paypal and ebay should the situation ever arise for the implimentation of said rules. The fact that the "user" -in most cases- has never had to deal with such altercation is the bases for them not understanding the rules, thier meaning, how they effect the user and when, and why they are even in place. ...ergo, they simply go to the bottom of the page and hit "agree".

Believe me I understand about the user agreement. I have fully commerce enabled websites that will not let the customer buy unless they agree to the terms. If they don't agree to the terms, I have it setup to where it boots them off the website(s).

I've had moronic and/or dishonest customers place an order and then deny the charges. Once that happens you can dispute. If they continue to dispute you can try to fight it. If the customer disputes it again it's pretty much a done deal.

I know I've been there a few times. I've even called the customers personally and they tell me " we'll call the credit card company and take care of it. " and they never do.

Some people are real pieces of work, I'll tell you. Sign of the time I guess. :eyes: :barf:




.

miller456
03-10-2009, 12:38 PM
regarding your other post...its not about the money, its the principle of it...i can live without $69 ....

regarding this post...if anyone with common sense would understand my listing why am i the one getting screwed??? because thats the policy? then the policy is wrong...its that simple....just cuz its the current policy doesnt mean its the right policy

Why are you living with out the $69? I fail to grasp this, the buyer has to send the item back to you for a full refund. Sell the item again and move on, yes policy is a B**** sometimes and when it is, those are the situations that I can not do anything for. Honestly PayPal not as describes disputes are almost always going to be a buyers favor except for a few one off situations. I understand your out the eBay fee's but that will be it and I stated you may be able to recover those as a one time credit of you call eBay which does have a phone support number now.

binks0678
03-10-2009, 03:59 PM
wait we have someone working for paypal in here?? lol i would like to kindly ask you to sabotage the paypal servers or something because they are the most crooked organization i have ever come across nothing against the people working there as there usually helpfull but as for the company itself Its terrible. I understand where the thread originater is coming from, once i paid a guy $1,100 bucks for something he never sent and paypal did NOTHING about it, yet when i sell a guy something where he failed to read the descritption paypal gladly took his side and took the money out of my bank account, I would personally like to say screw paypal they should get another class action suit.:D

miller456
03-10-2009, 04:16 PM
wait we have someone working for paypal in here?? lol i would like to kindly ask you to sabotage the paypal servers or something because they are the most crooked organization i have ever come across nothing against the people working there as there usually helpfull but as for the company itself Its terrible. I understand where the thread originater is coming from, once i paid a guy $1,100 bucks for something he never sent and paypal did NOTHING about it, yet when i sell a guy something where he failed to read the descritption paypal gladly took his side and took the money out of my bank account, I would personally like to say screw paypal they should get another class action suit.:D

I certainly appreciate your opinion of the company and like most responses from people, yours also makes no sense as to how paypal operates. There are a lot of details left out of your situation. First off PayPal can not just take money from your bank account without you authorizing it, however paypal can take your PayPal account negative. I dont know or care to look at a situation that is much in the past now but im sure I could find a lot of things to educate you on about what happened.

I spoke with cajun about his situation in the stickies about paypal that you can read also and things are looking good for him, I'm not going to go over his PayPal account or situation, however if he feels like sharing hes more than welcome.

108dragon
03-10-2009, 08:39 PM
You ship the item by the method you choose in your listing man, not what the buyer chooses. PayPals user agreement states that an item over $250 requires signature and delivery confirmation. If you choose not to follow that rule as a seller then its your own fault. You are all talk of the user agreement yet you dont even know what it says. You must use PayPal's user agreement and yes im all full of **** ive only worked here for 3 years I know nothing right. I dont go telling you, that you know nothing about your job, so dont start telling that with me. In your instance you agreed upon the cheaper shipping method, im sure your item was over $250 therefore the buyer had to confirm delivery b/c you didnt have signature confirmation (your fault not paypals). I already explained this earlier to you.

Now items on PayPal are covered up to the full amount not $200 or $2000 like they were before, so if the item is purchased through eBay and paypal is used to pay, as a buyer your covered for the full amount now. The only time paypal will recover a partial or no amount is if the item is not purchased through ebay in which there is no buyer protection. I read nicks listing and as i stated earlier, its very easy for most people to understand, however fact of the matter it still has a contradictory statement. I'm not going to continue this argument with you anymore and you can continue posting if you like, I simply ask that you stop posting what you think paypal is going to do b/c your knowledge of paypal is incorrect in many ways.

The auction setup allows for several shipping options for the buyer. Not many of them are set up for tracking. UPS and FedEx come with tracking automatically. Buyers usually choose the cheapest of the shipping options. Usually the cheapest options do not carry tracking. Delivery confirmation is NOT tracking. I found that out the hard way through a paypal dispute. -and don't you mean "if the item is purchased and then paid for through paypal?" Because paypal is the only method of payment listed on ebay auctions anymore.. unless the lister chooses to include something else in the item description. There's that railroading thing again.
What I chose to do for the buyer in shipping isn't in dispute here. That the buyer chose to open a paypal dispute with me because thier item didn't show up within the 9 days that they expected it to isn't in dispute here. What paypal did to make the situation worse for all parties involved, is what I have a problem with. I learned the HARD WAY about your user agreement. As a LOT of other people can attest, it isn't in place to help any of us. It is in place to cover ebay and paypal.
I'm not telling you how to do you job. In fact, you are actually an excellent paypal puppet. And you are right. I will post what I will. And again, I say what I do out of personal experience with eBay and paypal. If paypal has "changed it's evil ways recently", than so be it. But I can't tell. You keep telling me my "knowledge is incorrect". But you fail to prove my points as invalid. The user agreement is not in question here. What paypal does to people under protection of its own user agreement IS. Anyone want to see my proof, hit me up via pm.

HottestZ28
03-10-2009, 08:46 PM
I can tell you DON'T USE PAYPAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-buyers have more rights then sellers period!!!!I won't use it ever again

108dragon
03-10-2009, 09:10 PM
I certainly appreciate your opinion of the company and like most responses from people, yours also makes no sense as to how paypal operates. There are a lot of details left out of your situation. First off PayPal can not just take money from your bank account without you authorizing it, however paypal can take your PayPal account negative. I dont know or care to look at a situation that is much in the past now but im sure I could find a lot of things to educate you on about what happened.

I spoke with cajun about his situation in the stickies about paypal that you can read also and things are looking good for him, I'm not going to go over his PayPal account or situation, however if he feels like sharing hes more than welcome.

OK..and here's the OTHER problem with paypal under catagory of bank account issues;
I can't think of ANYONE that I would hand my credit card and pin number too, friends or otherwise. Why on hell's creation would I want to give some faceless entity of a corporation open access to my credit account? -certainly not for my benefit or in my best interests.
And of course he authorized it. He had to in advance just to be able to do business on ebay. The problem here is that the advanced authorization allows paypal to draw whatever it wants, whenever it wants from your personal account, regardless of whether it overdraws your account or puts you in the red. How do I know this? Because paypal has overdrawn my personal account on several occasions and forced me to open a "nonoverdraw" debit card account just for use with paypal... which I highly recommend for everyone else here too.

miller456
03-10-2009, 11:53 PM
OK..and here's the OTHER problem with paypal under catagory of bank account issues;
I can't think of ANYONE that I would hand my credit card and pin number too, friends or otherwise. Why on hell's creation would I want to give some faceless entity of a corporation open access to my credit account? -certainly not for my benefit or in my best interests.
And of course he authorized it. He had to in advance just to be able to do business on ebay. The problem here is that the advanced authorization allows paypal to draw whatever it wants, whenever it wants from your personal account, regardless of whether it overdraws your account or puts you in the red. How do I know this? Because paypal has overdrawn my personal account on several occasions and forced me to open a "nonoverdraw" debit card account just for use with paypal... which I highly recommend for everyone else here too.

After reading your posts you seriously have no idea what the hell your talking about. I'm sorry but your posts are completely far fetched from what actually happens. Like i said im done arguing a never ending battle with you. If you dont like the service stop complaining about it and just dont use it anymore.

redramair98
03-11-2009, 12:09 AM
i try to never use paypal after two seperat ocasions i sent items that where recieved but because it wasnt a signature confirmation i got screwed, also sold a paint gun for almost 400 bucs buyer started a claim like two months later, said it was in non workin order which was a lie, anyways filed a claim through all headache i even offered a refund if i recieved my item back in the condition it was sent, and he refused to send my paint gun back and demanded a refund needless to say payal gave him a refund and i never saw my paint gun again or my money

108dragon
03-11-2009, 01:33 AM
After reading your posts you seriously have no idea what the hell your talking about. I'm sorry but your posts are completely far fetched from what actually happens. Like i said im done arguing a never ending battle with you. If you dont like the service stop complaining about it and just dont use it anymore.

When I experienced my last dispute over that supercharger that was late because of the snail mail system, paypal put my paypal account $700 and some odd in the red. They TRIED to draw the money from my debit account. Did I authorize that? Noone called me and asked,"Hey dude. We need to get your permission to pull that money from your account." No. Because I was forced to give up my credit card and routing numbers to have a seller account on ebay IN ADVANCE! How am I lying?! Like a Rudyard Kipling story, that s*** happened JUST SO!
Either you really DON'T have any idea what the company you say you have worked for the last three years is doing to people, or you don't care. If the latter is true, you are being paid to be a paypal puppet here on LS1tech. You HAVE to be smarter than you sound. So I'm going to assume that is true. My posts are what has happened to me in dealing with ebay and paypal. I am leaning into you because this is the most nonautomated response I have EVER received from paypal.. although not any more intelligent. I am leaning into you because it really kicks my a$$ when good people are taken advantage of because they don't know what they can expect from a corporation like paypal, thier rights, or simply that they deserve better in treatment for the exorbatent fees extracted from them.
What? You don't like hearing the truth? Did your company only give you enough leash to shine people on and not actually DO anything to help us? Or did they not give you enough training to deal with someone who has enough experience on the cock end of your business practices to know better? It is only a "neverending battle" when you choose not to do the right thing and actually help some of these people instead of spewing rules.
BTW, the reason I'm "believed" is that there are MANY more people just like me who have had the SAME experiences with ebay and paypal. But I'll do you a favor; I've said what I have to say. The guys and gals here have heard me. And they know the truth when they hear it. So, unless you have something else dumb to say to me, I'll mellow out.

miller456
03-11-2009, 07:14 AM
I didnt even read your whole post and cant believe your still ranting, i only got bits and pieces and so far all I see is you still complaining about something your not going to use :bang:. Once again I will say what your saying is far fetched from ME dealing with people here at paypal. I have several success stories i can share from helping people on here, but guess what when things go right people dont post up. When theres a problem, oh you can bet your going to post about it. Sorry to tell you but out of the millions and millions of customers we have, we actually only talk to about 10% of the users, that means the other 90% are not having any problems, so put that into your little perspective book. Now once again I am going to ask nicely that you do NOT tell me how I do my job or my role here. There are few things I will get upset about and telling me how I do my job is one of them. Continue your ranting and I am going to ask a moderator to lock this thread and no longer continue to offer assistance to members ON MY OWN TIME b/c of people like you who wont STFU. Now go enjoy the rest of your day and stop posting here, I can prove you wrong in so many ways I just choose not to have a battle b/c you seem like the type of person that no matter even if your proven wrong, your still right.

transambandit
03-11-2009, 08:04 AM
Contact your bank and tell them you did not authorize paypal to take the money out of your account, they should credit it back to you.

Thorny
03-11-2009, 09:04 AM
I didnt even read your whole post and cant believe your still ranting, i only got bits and pieces and so far all I see is you still complaining about something your not going to use :bang:. Once again I will say what your saying is far fetched from ME dealing with people here at paypal. I have several success stories i can share from helping people on here, but guess what when things go right people dont post up. When theres a problem, oh you can bet your going to post about it. Sorry to tell you but out of the millions and millions of customers we have, we actually only talk to about 10% of the users, that means the other 90% are not having any problems, so put that into your little perspective book. Now once again I am going to ask nicely that you do NOT tell me how I do my job or my role here. There are few things I will get upset about and telling me how I do my job is one of them. Continue your ranting and I am going to ask a moderator to lock this thread and no longer continue to offer assistance to members ON MY OWN TIME b/c of people like you who wont STFU. Now go enjoy the rest of your day and stop posting here, I can prove you wrong in so many ways I just choose not to have a battle b/c you seem like the type of person that no matter even if your proven wrong, your still right.


I wouldn't be bragging about a 10% incident rate with my customers, companies without a monopoly like Paypal would go under with that poor of service. That does not mean that the other 90% are satisfied either. I've never talked to a Paypal rep before and I dislike Paypal so much I would switch companies at the first opportunity.

miller456
03-11-2009, 09:20 AM
I wouldn't be bragging about a 10% incident rate with my customers, companies without a monopoly like Paypal would go under with that poor of service. That does not mean that the other 90% are satisfied either. I've never talked to a Paypal rep before and I dislike Paypal so much I would switch companies at the first opportunity.

Thats an estimate and when you deal with over a 190 different countries not just the US thats to many accounts for just a rep like me to put into perspective for people on here. If you would like to switch, then you should be looking for other companies to process payments for you. I'm not here to try and make people use something they dont like, im tired of the complaining and hounding me for problems people have had. If you want help I'll see what I can do, otherwise stop flaming me b/c of issues you are having. I'm just one person here, I dont have control over the entire company and the things ive heard from people about paypal and said to me, you think i can just change the way it is. Well I cant, so if you dont like it call paypal and talk to them about it, I'm just here to try and assist who I can which actually has been a lot of members, just none of them post up after I help them out.

108dragon
03-11-2009, 10:59 AM
Contact your bank and tell them you did not authorize paypal to take the money out of your account, they should credit it back to you.

That used to be the case. But the Federal Credit Union here says that once you give a company your account and routing numbers, you can't keep them out of your account short of shutting it down and starting a new one. Usually, problems like this occur with money drawn from an account supporting a debit card by echeck. The exception to this may be if the money was drawn directly from an actual credit card. Credit card companies will actually draw the money back and go to bat for you in disputes like this.

GEARHED
03-11-2009, 01:46 PM
Moderator has left thread due to understanding how PayPal works. No better information that someone who works for them.

miller456
03-11-2009, 01:48 PM
You keep saying the same thing over and over as well, theres already a sticky with paypal info so there is no need to have another one open with incorrect information that YOU are providing. I keep repeating myself b/c im not going to get a 30+ page thread going arguing with you about it. Plus I could prove you wrong but i want nothing to do with looking into your account to do it. So fair enough sounds like we just end our discussion amongst one another. This will be my last post in this thread.

miller456
03-11-2009, 01:49 PM
Moderator has left thread due to understanding how PayPal works. No better information that someone who works for them.

of course not all the help that ive provided has mostly been through pms and actually calling me.

Nick_Rapitis
03-12-2009, 11:07 AM
"I'm leaving now. I've got one foot out the door. See? I've got my hand on the door knob now. The door is slowly closing behind me." You ALWAYS have one more stupid thing to say to perpetuate this. Either prove me wrong in front of our peers or STFU & get ghost. :rolleyes:

well said... the puppet, i mean miller, keeps saying hes done with this thread yet he keeps coming back, gotta have the last word....i wonder if paypal pays him to do that as well as talk about how good and righteous the company is?? its quite interesting, isnt it
















lookout below, i sense another post from miller is coming!

GEARHED
03-12-2009, 01:09 PM
Deletes for inane posts from keyboard warriors.
Will continue as this is not the "personal attack" forum.

Thank You

binks0678
03-12-2009, 03:55 PM
I didnt even read your whole post and cant believe your still ranting, i only got bits and pieces and so far all I see is you still complaining about something your not going to use :bang:. Once again I will say what your saying is far fetched from ME dealing with people here at paypal. I have several success stories i can share from helping people on here, but guess what when things go right people dont post up. When theres a problem, oh you can bet your going to post about it. Sorry to tell you but out of the millions and millions of customers we have, we actually only talk to about 10% of the users, that means the other 90% are not having any problems, so put that into your little perspective book. Now once again I am going to ask nicely that you do NOT tell me how I do my job or my role here. There are few things I will get upset about and telling me how I do my job is one of them. Continue your ranting and I am going to ask a moderator to lock this thread and no longer continue to offer assistance to members ON MY OWN TIME b/c of people like you who wont STFU. Now go enjoy the rest of your day and stop posting here, I can prove you wrong in so many ways I just choose not to have a battle b/c you seem like the type of person that no matter even if your proven wrong, your still right.

Before i start i dont have a problem with the employees i dont think its there fault the corporation is at fault. 10% of millions would be hundreds of thousands of costumers with problems ide like to see any other business survive with that many complaints and problems thats what needs to go into the perspective book.

binks0678
03-12-2009, 03:57 PM
^^^ im not personally attacking, the employees have helped me a lot on several occasions im only talking about the company with that statement

miller456
03-12-2009, 05:56 PM
Before i start i dont have a problem with the employees i dont think its there fault the corporation is at fault. 10% of millions would be hundreds of thousands of costumers with problems ide like to see any other business survive with that many complaints and problems thats what needs to go into the perspective book.

I understand where you are coming from but also take into consideration, that most of the calls are not complaints. Most of the calls are for questions, concerns, and advice with items being purchased, accounts, website issues etc. You are categorizing every call as a complaint which it is not even close. There are so many sections of assistance lines here i dont even know them all. So understand that actually very few of the 10% of calls are complaints, I'm not in management and if i could get a breakdown of call types im sure you would think otherwise.

108dragon
03-12-2009, 08:36 PM
Deletes for inane posts from keyboard warriors.
Will continue as this is not the "personal attack" forum.

Thank You

It didn't start out that way. I'm sure Miller is a really cool guy to hang with under other circumstances. I would love to ask him how he likes his MS4 install and what did for his power curve. But like most of the rest of the people who are experiencing issues with paypal here, it is frustrating being called a liar or being shined on when there is a very real issue. The things I said happened with me, actually did happen just as I described. And I've gone through several different accounts. So these incidents are not isolated. Miller and I did the dance because he chose to call me a liar in front of my peers here. And I take Nick and the others at thier word because of my experiences. Liars and bullshitters don't last long here either. And then it's kinda hard to not shoot at a guy who picks up a big target and holds it in front of himself. lol
Personally, I would like to see some of these paypal problems being handled in the open on these forums. People would see that paypal IS indeed taking care of people and not just giving us lip service. But, like we do it here; Don't tell me it makes horsepower, show me the dyno and time slips.
Fair enough?

miller456
03-12-2009, 10:03 PM
It didn't start out that way. I'm sure Miller is a really cool guy to hang with under other circumstances. I would love to ask him how he likes his MS4 install and what did for his power curve. But like most of the rest of the people who are experiencing issues with paypal here, it is frustrating being called a liar or being shined on when there is a very real issue. The things I said happened with me, actually did happen just as I described. And I've gone through several different accounts. So these incidents are not isolated. Miller and I did the dance because he chose to call me a liar in front of my peers here. And I take Nick and the others at thier word because of my experiences. Liars and bullshitters don't last long here either. And then it's kinda hard to not shoot at a guy who picks up a big target and holds it in front of himself. lol
Personally, I would like to see some of these paypal problems being handled in the open on these forums. People would see that paypal IS indeed taking care of people and not just giving us lip service. But, like we do it here; Don't tell me it makes horsepower, show me the dyno and time slips.
Fair enough?

Now I can respect a post like this! I will be composing information and putting it in the sticky for other member's who may have questions or concerns. However that thread will not be used as a complaint fest, and when people come at me just complaining, telling me how I do my job and the company i work for is worthless, I have no desire to try and have a conversation with that person. To tell you the honest truth a lot of the things you say sure could have happened to you in the past and what not. However me personally and how things are SUPPOSED to be handled have changed a lot at PayPal. In the 3 years I've worked there, things are changing constantly, heck sometimes things change and agents arent even notified until 2-3 days later after the change is made.

I am a very down to earth person and I guess I just ask for a little more respect for offering my assistance to do what I can to help people on my own free time. If this can happen I will in return give the same respect I ask for. I have numerous situations where people have pm'd me and I have helped them even been on long phone conversations to help people when I dont have to. I have and as long as I can will always be here to offer my assistance for fellow member's, all i ask is that it doesn't turn into a fiasco and dont expect me to solve the problem.

Btw the ms4 install was cake and I'm ordering my harris wet nozzle kit tomorrow :D, hoping to spray a 150 if all goes well.

108dragon
03-12-2009, 11:11 PM
In Nick's case, $69 is a lot in this economy. It would really help both buyers and sellers if paypal would look at disputes from both sides initially instead of taking one side first and imposing sanctions and freezing accounts by policy right off the bat. If a person was being a jerk and/or frauding a buyer or seller, they would have already transferred the funds out of paypal before the sanctions were in place.
I do not have a quick temper, but I can be cool and calculating verbally. Looking back at my posts, I probably did quite a bit more damage than I meant to.
I suppose an apology is in order for the way I treated you earlier. It really can't be your fault that these things are happening to people. If you aren't management, you couldn't even effect policy if you did agree with us. So from that standpoint, I apologize to you.

miller456
03-13-2009, 08:05 AM
In Nick's case, $69 is a lot in this economy. It would really help both buyers and sellers if paypal would look at disputes from both sides initially instead of taking one side first and imposing sanctions and freezing accounts by policy right off the bat. If a person was being a jerk and/or frauding a buyer or seller, they would have already transferred the funds out of paypal before the sanctions were in place.
I do not have a quick temper, but I can be cool and calculating verbally. Looking back at my posts, I probably did quite a bit more damage than I meant to.
I suppose an apology is in order for the way I treated you earlier. It really can't be your fault that these things are happening to people. If you aren't management, you couldn't even effect policy if you did agree with us. So from that standpoint, I apologize to you.

Apology accepted, and I also apologize for my actions and things said to one another. I know you may not use PayPal now or ever again, but if a valid question arrises feel free to ask me and I will do my best to get an answer. Yea im not in management and even if I wanted to change something, all i can do is send in my feedback as a suggestion. I'm one of the people you would get calling in so I understand what people go through on a daily basis and I do the best i can to take car of that customer on every phone call.

Completely off topic but i just ordered my n2o kit this morning :)

Nick_Rapitis
03-13-2009, 08:28 AM
well the whole thing is over now anyways aside from my negative balance which is taking for ever for the money to go in which is keeping me from buying anything else...but thats beside the point...enjoy your n2o

Nick_Rapitis
03-13-2009, 09:51 AM
hey quick question...i tried putting the funds in my paypal account and its still showing up negative...the money has already been taken out of my bank account but my account is still negative and doesnt show that my money ever went in there...what gives?