Is anyone making 600 crank hp N/A with a hyd roller?
03-18-2009, 09:12 AM
#1
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Is anyone making 600 crank hp N/A with a hyd roller? Can you tell me your setup? Compression?Heads and cam? Is anyone close? i am at 550hp lookin to gain a lil more but the only thing I can think of changing is going from 11:2:1 to 12:0:1 I wanna run pump gas. I also have the stock waterpump lookin to get an electric but that isnt going to give me the 50 hp
I got the Edelbrock Lt4 INTAKE probably could have gotten just as good numbers porting a stock 1.
I DO NOT wanna go solid roller.
I got the Edelbrock Lt4 INTAKE probably could have gotten just as good numbers porting a stock 1.I DO NOT wanna go solid roller.
Last edited by BADMOON; 03-18-2009 at 09:18 AM.
03-18-2009, 10:09 AM
#2
Can you tell me your setup? Compression?Heads and cam? Is anyone close? i am at 550hp lookin to gain a lil more but the only thing I can think of changing is going from 11:2:1 to 12:0:1 I wanna run pump gas. I also have the stock waterpump lookin to get an electric but that isnt going to give me the 50 hp I got the Edelbrock Lt4 INTAKE probably could have gotten just as good numbers porting a stock 1.
I DO NOT wanna go solid roller.
I got the Edelbrock Lt4 INTAKE probably could have gotten just as good numbers porting a stock 1.I DO NOT wanna go solid roller.
~12.1 CR 383, 330cfm @ .6 heads, 24x/24x @ .050 duration and .63X net lift cam, single plane intake, and all supporting mods. Will be spun until it stops making power or the ~7k rpm limit is reached, whichever comes first. I will probably need to ditch the factory computer for more rpms. Not one to speculate or bench race too much, so I won't divulge full details until it is all together and has been ran. No secrets - I will gladly post full details once it is in the car and has results to show.
You will have to make sacrifices...NA is not the easiest way to make power with an LT1. You will need the best heads you can get your hands on, a lot of compression, a cam that compliments your heads, a killer tuner, and all supporting mods(ewp, longtube headers, TB, low restriction exhaust, etc.).
Personally I don't give two ***** what it dynos though as long as it runs 10s on motor.
03-18-2009, 10:23 AM
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I plan on at least being close. Combo is almost done and has been in the works for almost a year, and desktop dyno shows an IMO overly optimistic ~630hp flywheel with a healthy hyd roller specc'd by LE. Realistically I think that is about 50hp too high.
~12.1 CR 383, 330cfm @ .6 heads, 24x/24x @ .050 duration and .63X net lift cam, single plane intake, and all supporting mods. Will be spun until it stops making power or the ~7k rpm limit is reached, whichever comes first. I will probably need to ditch the factory computer for more rpms. Not one to speculate or bench race too much, so I won't divulge full details until it is all together and has been ran. No secrets - I will gladly post full details once it is in the car and has results to show.
You will have to make sacrifices...NA is not the easiest way to make power with an LT1. You will need the best heads you can get your hands on, a lot of compression, a cam that compliments your heads, a killer tuner, and all supporting mods(ewp, longtube headers, TB, low restriction exhaust, etc.).
Personally I don't give two ***** what it dynos though as long as it runs 10s on motor.
~12.1 CR 383, 330cfm @ .6 heads, 24x/24x @ .050 duration and .63X net lift cam, single plane intake, and all supporting mods. Will be spun until it stops making power or the ~7k rpm limit is reached, whichever comes first. I will probably need to ditch the factory computer for more rpms. Not one to speculate or bench race too much, so I won't divulge full details until it is all together and has been ran. No secrets - I will gladly post full details once it is in the car and has results to show.
You will have to make sacrifices...NA is not the easiest way to make power with an LT1. You will need the best heads you can get your hands on, a lot of compression, a cam that compliments your heads, a killer tuner, and all supporting mods(ewp, longtube headers, TB, low restriction exhaust, etc.).
Personally I don't give two ***** what it dynos though as long as it runs 10s on motor.
03-18-2009, 06:21 PM
#5
I plan on at least being close. Combo is almost done and has been in the works for almost a year, and desktop dyno shows an IMO overly optimistic ~630hp flywheel with a healthy hyd roller specc'd by LE. Realistically I think that is about 50hp too high.
~12.1 CR 383, 330cfm @ .6 heads, 24x/24x @ .050 duration and .63X net lift cam, single plane intake, and all supporting mods. Will be spun until it stops making power or the ~7k rpm limit is reached, whichever comes first. I will probably need to ditch the factory computer for more rpms. Not one to speculate or bench race too much, so I won't divulge full details until it is all together and has been ran. No secrets - I will gladly post full details once it is in the car and has results to show.
You will have to make sacrifices...NA is not the easiest way to make power with an LT1. You will need the best heads you can get your hands on, a lot of compression, a cam that compliments your heads, a killer tuner, and all supporting mods(ewp, longtube headers, TB, low restriction exhaust, etc.).
Personally I don't give two ***** what it dynos though as long as it runs 10s on motor.
~12.1 CR 383, 330cfm @ .6 heads, 24x/24x @ .050 duration and .63X net lift cam, single plane intake, and all supporting mods. Will be spun until it stops making power or the ~7k rpm limit is reached, whichever comes first. I will probably need to ditch the factory computer for more rpms. Not one to speculate or bench race too much, so I won't divulge full details until it is all together and has been ran. No secrets - I will gladly post full details once it is in the car and has results to show.
You will have to make sacrifices...NA is not the easiest way to make power with an LT1. You will need the best heads you can get your hands on, a lot of compression, a cam that compliments your heads, a killer tuner, and all supporting mods(ewp, longtube headers, TB, low restriction exhaust, etc.).
Personally I don't give two ***** what it dynos though as long as it runs 10s on motor.
03-18-2009, 06:39 PM
#7
I plan on at least being close. Combo is almost done and has been in the works for almost a year, and desktop dyno shows an IMO overly optimistic ~630hp flywheel with a healthy hyd roller specc'd by LE. Realistically I think that is about 50hp too high.
~12.1 CR 383, 330cfm @ .6 heads, 24x/24x @ .050 duration and .63X net lift cam, single plane intake, and all supporting mods. Will be spun until it stops making power or the ~7k rpm limit is reached, whichever comes first. I will probably need to ditch the factory computer for more rpms. Not one to speculate or bench race too much, so I won't divulge full details until it is all together and has been ran. No secrets - I will gladly post full details once it is in the car and has results to show.
You will have to make sacrifices...NA is not the easiest way to make power with an LT1. You will need the best heads you can get your hands on, a lot of compression, a cam that compliments your heads, a killer tuner, and all supporting mods(ewp, longtube headers, TB, low restriction exhaust, etc.).
Personally I don't give two ***** what it dynos though as long as it runs 10s on motor.
~12.1 CR 383, 330cfm @ .6 heads, 24x/24x @ .050 duration and .63X net lift cam, single plane intake, and all supporting mods. Will be spun until it stops making power or the ~7k rpm limit is reached, whichever comes first. I will probably need to ditch the factory computer for more rpms. Not one to speculate or bench race too much, so I won't divulge full details until it is all together and has been ran. No secrets - I will gladly post full details once it is in the car and has results to show.
You will have to make sacrifices...NA is not the easiest way to make power with an LT1. You will need the best heads you can get your hands on, a lot of compression, a cam that compliments your heads, a killer tuner, and all supporting mods(ewp, longtube headers, TB, low restriction exhaust, etc.).
Personally I don't give two ***** what it dynos though as long as it runs 10s on motor.
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03-18-2009, 10:24 PM
#11
Nothing out of this world nor exotic, and nothing that has not been done before by people willing to take their time - "the devil is in the details". Plan every bit of the engine out before hand and take your time instead of winging it as you go - Personally I would rather spend an extra week or two saving for that "one step up" part then settling for the same old combo everyone else has.
Like I said anyway though, I could care less what it puts out as long as it will scoot my turd to 10s on the motor without gutting the car. Its not a true daily driver anymore, but it will be street driven often and I like my cd player and carpeting
.
We'll see.
Like I said anyway though, I could care less what it puts out as long as it will scoot my turd to 10s on the motor without gutting the car. Its not a true daily driver anymore, but it will be street driven often and I like my cd player and carpeting
. We'll see.
03-18-2009, 10:48 PM
#12
I think it could be done! Pucks looks good!
Im making near 425ish rwhp with a mild set up with LE stock ported heads, intake and a mild LE custom cam no where nere close to Pucks. Oh Im also on a stock bottom end. Bigger cubes more cam and fully ported AM heads I would think 600 crank HP is easy.
Get the EWP, single plane intake, bump up the comp 12.5-1, call LE and see if theres anything he can do with the heads and cam. He will tell you if he cant
Im making near 425ish rwhp with a mild set up with LE stock ported heads, intake and a mild LE custom cam no where nere close to Pucks. Oh Im also on a stock bottom end. Bigger cubes more cam and fully ported AM heads I would think 600 crank HP is easy.
Get the EWP, single plane intake, bump up the comp 12.5-1, call LE and see if theres anything he can do with the heads and cam. He will tell you if he cant
Last edited by AChotrod; 03-18-2009 at 10:54 PM.
03-19-2009, 08:27 AM
#13
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I would go single plane like others but that involves cutting the hood and more $$$$$$
My exhasust is 1 7/8 LPP headers dumped before the axle into single chamber flowmasters sounds evol.
Last edited by BADMOON; 03-19-2009 at 08:34 AM.
03-19-2009, 10:01 AM
#15
It is certainly possible, but much rarer than one would be lead to believe reading the public forums. 
A significant portion of our expense regarding LT development over the years has been building test engines for engine dyno documentation followed by real world performance & longevity verification. One can certainly find a brand or adjust any dyno to read any number you please. However, based on our data from industry standard Superflow 901/902's and DTS equipment it is highly improbable most are making the flywheel numbers they either approximate via "simulations" or extrapolate via rules of thumb (i.e. 20% DT loss). A large part of the problem is the common, "I am making about XXXhp." For the good of the community it would be nice if the word "hope" were slipped in there.
Based on our data, a true 600hp at the flywheel will typically generate 510-540rwhp SAE on a DynoJet. If your setup is only producing 450rwhp SAE you are likely in the 510-540hp range at the flywheel. With a stick car, the 400-420rwhp guys would likely be under 500hp on an engine dyno. Most of the approximations online would be more accurate with 70-100hp subtracted.
The factory LS7 is an excellent example. In stock 505hp form they often roll in the 44Xrw SAE range. Our baselines for a stock long-block plus headers & tuning picked that up into the 560 flywheel hp range & the cars gain similarly on the drum into the high 4XX's. That 56Xflywheel/49Xrw is still significantly down from 600 with 427cid, cut 12deg heads, and a very aggressive cam grind.
The stock LS7 is only around 1.2hp/cid
Our stock shortblock LT1 top-end packages typically manage ~1.4hp/cid (117% factory LS7 specific output)
The 383R pump fuel engine Rick is currently running is ~1.7hp/cid (140% factory LS7 specific output)
To be in the vicinity of an honest 600hp you'll need to be at 1.57hp/cid. Possible, but highly improbable for most setups discussed online. It will typically require a well thought out engine with true professionals doing the work vs. the more common enthusiast level components and labor.
Hope that helps more than it hurts.
Good luck with your projects, guys!
A significant portion of our expense regarding LT development over the years has been building test engines for engine dyno documentation followed by real world performance & longevity verification. One can certainly find a brand or adjust any dyno to read any number you please. However, based on our data from industry standard Superflow 901/902's and DTS equipment it is highly improbable most are making the flywheel numbers they either approximate via "simulations" or extrapolate via rules of thumb (i.e. 20% DT loss). A large part of the problem is the common, "I am making about XXXhp." For the good of the community it would be nice if the word "hope" were slipped in there.
Based on our data, a true 600hp at the flywheel will typically generate 510-540rwhp SAE on a DynoJet. If your setup is only producing 450rwhp SAE you are likely in the 510-540hp range at the flywheel. With a stick car, the 400-420rwhp guys would likely be under 500hp on an engine dyno. Most of the approximations online would be more accurate with 70-100hp subtracted.
The factory LS7 is an excellent example. In stock 505hp form they often roll in the 44Xrw SAE range. Our baselines for a stock long-block plus headers & tuning picked that up into the 560 flywheel hp range & the cars gain similarly on the drum into the high 4XX's. That 56Xflywheel/49Xrw is still significantly down from 600 with 427cid, cut 12deg heads, and a very aggressive cam grind.
The stock LS7 is only around 1.2hp/cid
Our stock shortblock LT1 top-end packages typically manage ~1.4hp/cid (117% factory LS7 specific output)
The 383R pump fuel engine Rick is currently running is ~1.7hp/cid (140% factory LS7 specific output)
To be in the vicinity of an honest 600hp you'll need to be at 1.57hp/cid. Possible, but highly improbable for most setups discussed online. It will typically require a well thought out engine with true professionals doing the work vs. the more common enthusiast level components and labor.
Hope that helps more than it hurts.
Good luck with your projects, guys!
03-19-2009, 03:26 PM
#19
Phil at Ai confirms what I said earlier in the post. Making 600 at the flywheel is HARD with 23* heads and pumpgas, even harder with a Hyd roller.
Abare's car is making 675 plus to run what he is running.Or so I would think.
Mine is making at least 550 at the flywheel, I think its closer to 585, judging by my weight vs et and mph.There is another .1 in my car with a looser converter and a drag oriented rear swaybar. But my combo is on the edge of streetablity. I could make another 50hp with intake porting(it only has light cleanup work) and a bigger cam...but I like being able to hop in the car and drive an hour on the interstate. Or sit in traffic for hours cruising.
People read Engine Masters challenge and think its easy, it aint.
Abare's car is making 675 plus to run what he is running.Or so I would think.
Mine is making at least 550 at the flywheel, I think its closer to 585, judging by my weight vs et and mph.There is another .1 in my car with a looser converter and a drag oriented rear swaybar. But my combo is on the edge of streetablity. I could make another 50hp with intake porting(it only has light cleanup work) and a bigger cam...but I like being able to hop in the car and drive an hour on the interstate. Or sit in traffic for hours cruising.
People read Engine Masters challenge and think its easy, it aint.
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 03-19-2009 at 03:51 PM.
03-19-2009, 04:09 PM
#20
Phil at Ai confirms what I said earlier in the post. Making 600 at the flywheel is HARD with 23* heads and pumpgas, even harder with a Hyd roller.
Abare's car is making 675 plus to run what he is running.Or so I would think.
Mine is making at least 550 at the flywheel, I think its closer to 585, judging by my weight vs et and mph.There is another .1 in my car with a looser converter and a drag oriented rear swaybar. But my combo is on the edge of streetablity. I could make another 50hp with intake porting(it only has light cleanup work) and a bigger cam...but I like being able to hop in the car and drive an hour on the interstate. Or sit in traffic for hours cruising.
People read Engine Masters challenge and think its easy, it aint.
Abare's car is making 675 plus to run what he is running.Or so I would think.
Mine is making at least 550 at the flywheel, I think its closer to 585, judging by my weight vs et and mph.There is another .1 in my car with a looser converter and a drag oriented rear swaybar. But my combo is on the edge of streetablity. I could make another 50hp with intake porting(it only has light cleanup work) and a bigger cam...but I like being able to hop in the car and drive an hour on the interstate. Or sit in traffic for hours cruising.
People read Engine Masters challenge and think its easy, it aint.
My combo is also also on the edge of streetability, but will run on pumpgas and idle in traffic without any drama. I won't lie and call it a full streetcar though - no AC,a fiberglass hood, drag suspension, no rear seats, etc. It's not gutted, but I wouldn't want to drive across country in it.
Only thing left is a little more money and a little more time - I have far exceeded my initial budget by almost two-fold.