Generation IV External Engine - Torque Management delete on M6???

I have heard that you can delete the torque management on automatics but can you delete them on manuals.. and if u can does it really help any?

Is there even torque management on M6's

No tq management on M6s

No tq management on M6s

If you are talking about E38 ECU then you are incorrect there IS torque management.

Early LS1 ECU no.

so how do i find out if i can delete it or not

What car are you asking about?

Maybe im wrong. Guess if never heard of anyone talk about M6s and tq managment.
I think his car is a 2000.

ya my car is a 2000 camaro z28 m6... can i take the tq management off of that year???

ya my car is a 2000 camaro z28 m6... can i take the tq management off of that year???

No, it doesn't have it.

Anything that reduces torque is TM and eliminating it will gain power. JMHO- and that you're not changing.

Thats not just your opinion, it's fact. But that attachment isn't "M6 TM" it's Engine TM and just shows the amount of retard commanded to get the desired tq reduction, which as far as I can tell is non-existant seeing as all the tables are maxed out on a stock tune.

Trust me, if you zero out these tables in an M6 tune you will gain.

I've seen and used many write ups on A4 TM delete that forget these tables.

A4 or M6 these need to be zero'd out.

I've logged A4 and M6 cars with these tables stock and they pull way too much timing. M6 gets the signal off the CPP switch.

If you think I'm wrong, just don't post again because I really don't care what you do.

I won't say you're wrong. I havent logged my car with the stock tune so I can't say one way or the other but I'm gonna now when I get back in town cause I've been wondering about that. It seems to me that's just a reference table to determine how much timing will be pulled, but where is the table that commands the tq reduction? I would like to figure this out as much as anyone else so don't take my comments as arguments.

Out of curiosity though, if you really dont care what I do why tell me not to post again? :eyes:

Mine is an '01 M6 and had its torque management set up like it was an automatic. :ripped:

call me stupid but i have no idea wat yall are talking about.. lol... i know what tm does and stuff but some stuff yall are saying is beyond me... i am kinda a newbie at all the tuning and deleteing stuff off you pcm..

Every time I post something thats opposite of what people think, it turns into an arguement or pissing match. I'm tired of that.

All I'm saying is that those tables give the VCM (or PCM, ECM whatever you prefer) the ability to pull timing in an effort to reduce torque. Zero them out and they can no longer pull timing.

Heres one more, nothing even to do with TM, these need to be brought out of the negative too. (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-iv-external-engine/172071d1237873750-torque-management-delete-m6-tmmmtiming.jpg) Mine are at 10 (not -10)

I'm just a dumbass though, I ran 12.6 with a lid, exhaust and my own tuning.
It's an '01 camaro with 93,000 miles. Mods? lid, exhaust. People say my tuning ideas are fucked up so I guess I won't consider it a modification and won't mention it. :eyes:

Not trying to be a smartass but it works for me for some odd reason even though people disagree.

Well like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you cause I dont have any facts yet. That 12.6 is a good pass but a friend of mine ran a 12.4 with only headers and exhaust, stock lid, stock tune, stock everything else... so it's nothing amazing. And I'm currently running consistant 11.5's with bolt-on's and a tune (mine) so don't think because you ran a 12.6 that you are some amazing tuner... not saying you aren't... just saying

one thing i have gotten from this post is that i need to get a tune... The best i can run right now is a 13.2 with ls6 intake headers and custom x pipe with two dynomax bullet mufflers dumped... I keep gettn told that you dont need to get a tune unless you do something major like a cam or something bug internal wise....

Even on a stock car you will gain a little something from a tune. And any significant change in airflow will benefit from a retune to get the a/f back on track. My car still has the stock motor with all the bolt-ons and my stock airflow maps were way off, which means a tune would help a good bit with a full bolt-on car. I dont have any comparisons between my tune and stock but I had a dyno tune done by a well know performance shop around here and I still gained .2 in the 1/4 when I did my own tune so I would imagine I gained a bit more than that over stock.

ok well i guess i see a tune in my future then... do i ned to do a before and after dyno too with the tune... i know nothing about tuning if n e one hasnt noticed at

A before and after dyno is always a good idea to see what you've done. Do you just want a tune to address TM?

i want it to adress TM if you can and everything else that needs to be tuned because of my mods

You don't absolutely need a tune, but you will benefit from one. I'm going to do a log here in a few minutes to see if any timing is pulled with all the TM tables stock.

Trust me, if you zero out these tables in an M6 tune you will gain.

I've seen and used many write ups on A4 TM delete that forget these tables.

A4 or M6 these need to be zero'd out.

I've logged A4 and M6 cars with these tables stock and they pull way too much timing. M6 gets the signal off the CPP switch.

If you think I'm wrong, just don't post again because I really don't care what you do.

i agree with this, i also deleted TM when i tuned my buddies M6.

I've logged A4 and M6 cars with these tables stock and they pull way too much timing.
Ok, now I'm calling BS. I just finished running several logs with all the engine TM reset to stock and timing set at a linear 20 deg. and anytime I go WOT it stays at 20 until I let off. Do you still have the log where you saw a timing retard on a 6 speed?

so can or can you not take the TM out of a M6??? Some of yall say you can and some of yall say you can...

We've been debating over whether or not it is even there in the first place. Basically what I said in my last post is that I set my tune back to stock (at least the part of it that deals with TM) and tested it to see if the performance was affected at all compared to those tables being zero'd out (deleted) and it didn't show any timing being pulled out or anything different at all. So at this point I'm convinced that there is no active torque management on a six speed, and of course you can't take it out if it's not there.

There is no torque management on an M6! The tables that dude was posting are just reference or lookup tables that tell the engine "look, if you use this much spark retard you will get this amount of torque reduction out of the motor" that is used for traction control purposes. It is not torque management. IF traction control says "oh look! the tires are starting to spin, lets reduce torque by pulling timing" that is where it goes to look up how much timing to pull. By modifying those tables, you can effectively remove traction control from the engine, but it will still apply the rear brakes.

Just my opinion, but why not just delete it and be done with it. It takes all of 30 seconds to go in there and set those tables to 0. If it doesn't change anything your out 30 seconds, if it does you may have gained a tenth.

Maybe somewhere.

Thats why I said in the beginning---do what you want, I'm not explaining anything. Everything I say that goes beyond typical turns into a pissing match. And look at it.

Bottom line---tune your car the way you feel necessary. If you don't agree with me, don't listen to me.

It has nothing to do with you in particular, I'm just trying to get the facts out there to the OP and anyone else interested. Like I said before, and was just mentioned again the tables you posted are just reference tables and do NOT actively do anything to alter torque/timing because all the other tables that would command TM are disabled on an 6 speed pcm.

Just my opinion, but why not just delete it and be done with it. It takes all of 30 seconds to go in there and set those tables to 0. If it doesn't change anything your out 30 seconds, if it does you may have gained a tenth.

If you just want to, go ahead. I did it to mine also before this thread came up, just know that you are not really changing anything.

have u posted this on hptuners? i would guess someone there could answer the question?

have u posted this on hptuners? i would guess someone there could answer the question?

I searched on there about a month ago and found a thread where it was decided there was no TM but I just tried to find it again and closest I found was your post :jest: Now on the ETC M6 cars there IS TM, but not on our F-bodys.

Well I just found this one that seems to disagree... http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7646&highlight=torque+management

But I'm going to take the word of my logs over a thread with no proof...

No man, I'm right. You shouldn't have any spark retard on an M6 unless either A) you have traction control on or B) you are getting knock. It wont just retard timing going down the road, or when you go WOT. Those tables will not help you get more horsepower, or make your car faster. If you are not getting any retard, then you are not losing any torque. Period. Of course we already knew that didn't we?

Key words in bold, there is Transmission TM (or not with an M6)

I DO NOT see the point in getting rid of transmission TM and not engine TM.
:confused:


The table I've been posting is engine TM.
that attachment isn't "M6 TM" it's Engine TM

...:eyes:

on the other hand leaving it as is does what?
If your answer is "I don't know" then how can you argue?
Seems like your answer will be "I don't know"


Dude I just posted that I put those tables to stock and tested it and it did nothing. And if you'll notice I refrained from arguing with you until I tested it and had proof. Seems like you answer will be pretty much the ame thing you've been saying followed by you bitching about how everyone's just here to argue with you. So why don't you take your own advice and shut the fuck up till you bring some proof.

A six speed is a transmission, TRANSMISSION.

Cars with six speeds have ENGINE TM!

Every car has an engine and transmission right?

Ok great M6's have no transmission TM.
They all have engine TM.

I'll go talk to a fucking wall it'll probably see the point before you do.

The whole point of this thread is to determine whether or not there is TM on a 6 speed CAR, meaning any kind of TM, trans or engine. When I said that I meant a 6 speed car in general, not the trans itself. Please go talk to the wall, you're sure as hell not contributing anything to this thread anymore.

You can't just drive around and hit TM. I had my car for 3 or 4 months before I got into a situation when TM kicked in, and slowed it down.

Now someone else needs to come in and say those tables are for traction control, why don't you "have a discussion" with that guy because thats incorrect.

So what is it that caused the TM to engage? Where is this magic table that lies dormant for months then decides to pull timing randomly. These tables are set up to react to specific situations and conditions, so you would know exactly why you saw a loss. And please dont post those same tables again because they do not COMMAND any timing retard.

Yes that's incorrect, those tables are not traction control. Nothing more to discuss. Like I've said before, I'm not here just to argue with you or anyone else, I'm here for facts. So if someone can give me some real proof, I'll accept it and shut my mouth.

wow.. didnt know this thread would have caused this much controversy:bang: But i was reading another thread on HPtuners and one guy said that the Acceleration Slip Regulation (ASR) was the TM for 6 speeds... well i have a switch on my car that says ASR that i can turn it off and on... If this is true when i turn it off does it get rid of the TM while the switch is off completely? or is st still activated just not as touchy...

These tables are set up to react to specific situations and conditions, so you would know exactly why you saw a loss.

Yea if I drove around logging every time I got in the car.:eyes:

I'm here for facts. So if someone can give me some real proof, I'll accept it and shut my mouth.

I personally don't give enough a shit to prove anything to you. Spew your misinformation, I'm out of this thread. (yea I realize everything I posted is quoted)
I'll go talk to my fucking tires and have a more intellectual discussion than this.

wow.. didnt know this thread would have caused this much controversy:bang: But i was reading another thread on HPtuners and one guy said that the Acceleration Slip Regulation (ASR) was the TM for 6 speeds... well i have a switch on my car that says ASR that i can turn it off and on... If this is true when i turn it off does it get rid of the TM while the switch is off completely? or is st still activated just not as touchy...

That's traction control, it regulates the throttle position instead of spark. When it's off, it's off.

oh ok.. so it has nothing to do with n e thing were discussin? i kinda was just wonderin

Nope.