so if i want APS...
04-18-2009, 03:00 PM
#1
so if i want APS... between all of the collapsing tube and dud turbo threads i'd just like to knolw exactly what i will need to suppliment or upgrade when buying an APS system (the basline 346 one).
i hear LG is doing something about upgrading the turbos, but their website says nothing. any help out there???
i hear LG is doing something about upgrading the turbos, but their website says nothing. any help out there???
Last edited by SS101; 04-18-2009 at 03:25 PM.
04-18-2009, 08:20 PM
#2
To bad search isn't working that great.
What exactly do you want to know..
You need bmr kmember .think other makes work but bmr works non turbo one.
You need like hooker ypipe if keeping stock catback.I got coated one. I think kooks works too in stainless.
You need fuel system..single intank upgrade if you stay around stock boost on a 346. Stock boost is 7.5psi. You should go to intank twin or big external single if you plan on bigger engine or higher boost. You will need 60s pretty much to start and might have to go 80s or 96 or even 120s if you go higher power and want to run e85.Wish we had it near me.
You need to get the car tuned of course and will want to go to speed density if you go much past stock boost levels or have bigger engine than 346.
I run hptuners.
The new kits should have the upgraded inlet hoses. Check with aps.
Some guys have stented the old inlet tubes with 3 inch oval exhaust pipe. Or Louis or APS can sell you the upgraded inlet tubes but they should be on the newer kits.
Standard sway bar can still hit. Might need to space it and shorten endlinks or possibly cut pipes and put in silicone couplers or run no front sway bar. So far I am running no front sway. You might get overheating if you live somewhere really hot there are options like becool rad or lt1 rad..maybe install high flo water pump. So far not sure on this where I live. I live pretty far up north don't get as hot.
Also install your turbos within warranty period. not sure if its 90 days or a year. I have no idea if aps will cover my dud as it was installed over a year after bought the kit do to mostly getting messed around on my new engine but that is long story. And not blaming company.
I think as Louis said most of the duds are from running them too high a boost level. So keep it likely under 12psi or so and upgrade if you still want more power. Trust me 12psi on any kind of even 346 will still be screaming fast on the street and turn some reasonabel track numbers..
Figure out what you are doing for engine..forged is best of course if you are going to want to boost much past 7.5 with stock heads and maybe 10psi if you get 317 heads or other aftermarket heads that will lower compression.
Cam kettle of worms do some more research on that.
Not sure what trans you have..4l60 will die in stock form pretty quick. m6 are pretty strong . Rear end of course with m6 especially and sticky tires won't last long maybe not even one run down the track.
I went to s60 rearend and going top of line 4l80 but my goals are more like 1000rwhp.
As you see we have upgraded options from Louis now ,possibly source for some billet ball bearing upgrades and the turbo center sections are not uncommon there are ones available like i got from ebay. I am going to try the ones I got for now I think and likely order some ugprades for next season off Louis. By then maybe he will even have some BB options. but BB is not that necessary . Two smaller twins soin up plenty fast especially if you go to a bigger cube engine. I guess if person stuck with 346 then BB might be nice. But don't think they are rebuildable so if they do die you are out even more money.
Anything else you want to know please feel free to ask .
Basically the kit seems high quality..aside from the turbos. Intercooler, exhaust manifolds, all the hot and cold piping..the instrucstion manual..all good and you can keep your air conditioning. Install is doable by home mechanics but is pretty long and involved. Mine was longer do to doing engine at same time as turbos.
What exactly do you want to know..
You need bmr kmember .think other makes work but bmr works non turbo one.
You need like hooker ypipe if keeping stock catback.I got coated one. I think kooks works too in stainless.
You need fuel system..single intank upgrade if you stay around stock boost on a 346. Stock boost is 7.5psi. You should go to intank twin or big external single if you plan on bigger engine or higher boost. You will need 60s pretty much to start and might have to go 80s or 96 or even 120s if you go higher power and want to run e85.Wish we had it near me.
You need to get the car tuned of course and will want to go to speed density if you go much past stock boost levels or have bigger engine than 346.
I run hptuners.
The new kits should have the upgraded inlet hoses. Check with aps.
Some guys have stented the old inlet tubes with 3 inch oval exhaust pipe. Or Louis or APS can sell you the upgraded inlet tubes but they should be on the newer kits.
Standard sway bar can still hit. Might need to space it and shorten endlinks or possibly cut pipes and put in silicone couplers or run no front sway bar. So far I am running no front sway. You might get overheating if you live somewhere really hot there are options like becool rad or lt1 rad..maybe install high flo water pump. So far not sure on this where I live. I live pretty far up north don't get as hot.
Also install your turbos within warranty period. not sure if its 90 days or a year. I have no idea if aps will cover my dud as it was installed over a year after bought the kit do to mostly getting messed around on my new engine but that is long story. And not blaming company.
I think as Louis said most of the duds are from running them too high a boost level. So keep it likely under 12psi or so and upgrade if you still want more power. Trust me 12psi on any kind of even 346 will still be screaming fast on the street and turn some reasonabel track numbers..
Figure out what you are doing for engine..forged is best of course if you are going to want to boost much past 7.5 with stock heads and maybe 10psi if you get 317 heads or other aftermarket heads that will lower compression.
Cam kettle of worms do some more research on that.
Not sure what trans you have..4l60 will die in stock form pretty quick. m6 are pretty strong . Rear end of course with m6 especially and sticky tires won't last long maybe not even one run down the track.
I went to s60 rearend and going top of line 4l80 but my goals are more like 1000rwhp.
As you see we have upgraded options from Louis now ,possibly source for some billet ball bearing upgrades and the turbo center sections are not uncommon there are ones available like i got from ebay. I am going to try the ones I got for now I think and likely order some ugprades for next season off Louis. By then maybe he will even have some BB options. but BB is not that necessary . Two smaller twins soin up plenty fast especially if you go to a bigger cube engine. I guess if person stuck with 346 then BB might be nice. But don't think they are rebuildable so if they do die you are out even more money.
Anything else you want to know please feel free to ask .
Basically the kit seems high quality..aside from the turbos. Intercooler, exhaust manifolds, all the hot and cold piping..the instrucstion manual..all good and you can keep your air conditioning. Install is doable by home mechanics but is pretty long and involved. Mine was longer do to doing engine at same time as turbos.
04-19-2009, 10:51 AM
#4
wow thanx...i'm coming to you with my questions from now on haha
as far as the turbos, LG's website doesnt say much so i'm assuming i should just call them and ask? the last thing i want to do is install the whole kit then have to rip it apart again bacause i have a dud turbo.
as an aside, i hear some people have made the APS kit work with the UMI k memeber...something about reclocking the compressor housing. i just dont like the BMR piece, when you put it next to the UMI it just looks weak. i'm gonna try making it work with the UMI road race k member (cross your fingers).
as far as the rest, i'm planning on forged rods and pistons (stock crank), ls6 heads, ls2 intake, gt7 cam, built t56, and a 12 bolt. nothing more than 8-10 psi on s/d. anyone tried using the APS fuel system?
as far as the turbos, LG's website doesnt say much so i'm assuming i should just call them and ask? the last thing i want to do is install the whole kit then have to rip it apart again bacause i have a dud turbo.
as an aside, i hear some people have made the APS kit work with the UMI k memeber...something about reclocking the compressor housing. i just dont like the BMR piece, when you put it next to the UMI it just looks weak. i'm gonna try making it work with the UMI road race k member (cross your fingers).
as far as the rest, i'm planning on forged rods and pistons (stock crank), ls6 heads, ls2 intake, gt7 cam, built t56, and a 12 bolt. nothing more than 8-10 psi on s/d. anyone tried using the APS fuel system?
04-19-2009, 11:04 AM
#5
wow thanx...i'm coming to you with my questions from now on haha
as far as the turbos, LG's website doesnt say much so i'm assuming i should just call them and ask? the last thing i want to do is install the whole kit then have to rip it apart again bacause i have a dud turbo.
as an aside, i hear some people have made the APS kit work with the UMI k memeber...something about reclocking the compressor housing. i just dont like the BMR piece, when you put it next to the UMI it just looks weak. i'm gonna try making it work with the UMI road race k member (cross your fingers).
as far as the rest, i'm planning on forged rods and pistons (stock crank), ls6 heads, ls2 intake, gt7 cam, built t56, and a 12 bolt. nothing more than 8-10 psi on s/d. anyone tried using the APS fuel system?
as far as the turbos, LG's website doesnt say much so i'm assuming i should just call them and ask? the last thing i want to do is install the whole kit then have to rip it apart again bacause i have a dud turbo.
as an aside, i hear some people have made the APS kit work with the UMI k memeber...something about reclocking the compressor housing. i just dont like the BMR piece, when you put it next to the UMI it just looks weak. i'm gonna try making it work with the UMI road race k member (cross your fingers).
as far as the rest, i'm planning on forged rods and pistons (stock crank), ls6 heads, ls2 intake, gt7 cam, built t56, and a 12 bolt. nothing more than 8-10 psi on s/d. anyone tried using the APS fuel system?
I would call LG and ask for specifics he has posted in past threads.
So you are building an ls2? the ls2 intake dont fit on ls1 engines. Or did you mean ls6 intake?
And you should be able to run a lot higher than 8 to 10psi on forged up pistons and rods and stock cranks are pretty strong. Course with the bigger turbos from LG then you won't have to push things as high on boost to get same power as smaller turbos.
Aps fuel system is not the best idea. Advantage is it just drops in and replaces the stock bucket . Disadvantage is its very pricey. And if you add on the extra aps setup its even more pricey. And it dont' appear that aps even includes a fuel filter in their upgraded 1000rwhp setup!
I have Lonnies setup on order. Disadvantage is had to send away my pump assembly so car is dead waiting on it to come back with twin pumps installed. It was less money than the aps setup though and does come with a high quality filter,bigger return line not sure if bigger feed line.
04-19-2009, 08:44 PM
#7
i thought i had read somewhere around here that an ls2 intake does work on an ls1? with some conversion parts of course, something like map harness extension, fuel rail adapter, different tb...i'll look for the thread. the only reason i'd use it is because it can flow really well once ported and still be cheaper than a fast (by lots) and i figure it wouldnt make great sense to port out a fast because i'm gonna top out the ls6 heads way before i run out of intake.
i'm looking into the racetronix fuel system with a pump voltage booster, mototron 60# injectors and w/e billet rails i can find cheap...i'm looking for somewhere between 600 and 700 rwhp but the car is mostly a DD so the volt booster will be nice way to keep costs down but have the fuel when i need it.
MY99: how do you like having the zex d/p ontop of the turbos? was it hard to tune for nitrous and FI? which k member did you use?
i'm looking into the racetronix fuel system with a pump voltage booster, mototron 60# injectors and w/e billet rails i can find cheap...i'm looking for somewhere between 600 and 700 rwhp but the car is mostly a DD so the volt booster will be nice way to keep costs down but have the fuel when i need it.
MY99: how do you like having the zex d/p ontop of the turbos? was it hard to tune for nitrous and FI? which k member did you use?
Trending Topics
04-19-2009, 11:35 PM
#10
Lg might be including installation in that price. I use the bmr k member not turbo kmember forget the part number already.
I don't have the spray on the car yet. Its wet kit so don't need bigger injectors for the spray and likely use it for smaller shots think smallest is 100 shot. But like to have options like more power than can ever use. I would rather be traction limited than horsepower limited. Trust me even 500 rwhp is a handful on the street and hard to hook up.
I am not sure boosted single pump can do the hp levels you want. I think going double for now even without the rails, bigger lines , and reg will see you to maybe 600rwhp. Past that would get it all. Don't cheap on fuel support..lean out your engine and it could go bye bye.
As for intake would run ls6 for now. I just had the fast already before the turbo and like can run direct port off it. The direct port will likey be installed later in the season.
nitrous and turbos play fine together. Many dsm guys run both. small shots of spray normally is all thats needed. Supercools the intake charger and usually gives more hp gain than normal .so 50 shot might give more like 100 hp gain when the car is turboed.
Fast 90 intakes are also pretty plentiful and common since the 92 came out. Bet you can find one for good price if you check used section on here.
I don't have the spray on the car yet. Its wet kit so don't need bigger injectors for the spray and likely use it for smaller shots think smallest is 100 shot. But like to have options like more power than can ever use. I would rather be traction limited than horsepower limited. Trust me even 500 rwhp is a handful on the street and hard to hook up.
I am not sure boosted single pump can do the hp levels you want. I think going double for now even without the rails, bigger lines , and reg will see you to maybe 600rwhp. Past that would get it all. Don't cheap on fuel support..lean out your engine and it could go bye bye.
As for intake would run ls6 for now. I just had the fast already before the turbo and like can run direct port off it. The direct port will likey be installed later in the season.
nitrous and turbos play fine together. Many dsm guys run both. small shots of spray normally is all thats needed. Supercools the intake charger and usually gives more hp gain than normal .so 50 shot might give more like 100 hp gain when the car is turboed.
Fast 90 intakes are also pretty plentiful and common since the 92 came out. Bet you can find one for good price if you check used section on here.
04-20-2009, 09:19 AM
#12
You could buy the twin pump part first of lonnies setup and then add the more expensive second part maybe once you went much past 600rwhp. 60s are think ok to 600 maybe 700 rwhp but think past that should go bigger to 79 high or over to say 96 low maybe 120 if going to run e85 in the future. The twin pump setup is good to 1000rwhp or a bit more but think maybe 800rwhp on e85? Not sure on that big power on e85 might require a huge sinle pump setup and then you are talking custom tank normally even bigger any line and fairly noisy pump. I wanted to keep my pumps pretty quiet as my car is a street car 99% so went with the dual intanks for now.
As said fuel is critical you don't want to be leaning out. This is one reason FI is not as cheap as people would like. You need fuel support,you need the tuning, you need the forged engine parts if you start going up in power levels. At least forged pistons and rods are good idea too. You can make decent power with 317 heads and even stock cams.
And of course with the power person then needs stronger rear end to put it to the ground, drag tires to really put it to the ground,upgrades to clutch or auto,etc.
I have over 20k easy into my build and that is not counting the price of the car. and will have over 30k before the car is finished..And thats not even counting labor and did a lot myself.
Thats roughly 10k into the built 408, 6k into the kit with k memember and hooker ypipe.
over 3k for dana 60 and new driveshaft, over 2k for twin pumps, rest of fuel system and that could come close to 3k if go to low impedence with converter box and plug and play harness. 500 for hptuners, like 1500 in boost controller and guages.Still need 5k trans, already have 1000 buck yank stall and several hundred more in conversion parts b ut can sell my old rear end ,t56 ,tex twin to recoupe some of the cost and sold off my old 346.
Have another thousand or so in suspension stuff ,and need real drag radials when feel like hooking up .Nittos aren't very effective past 600rwhp.
But sorry to ramble. Just that people keep posting with how they have 2 grand and want to go turbo. Pretty funny. Not talking about you.
Just that be prepared things will add up and you can't cut that many corners.
As said fuel is critical you don't want to be leaning out. This is one reason FI is not as cheap as people would like. You need fuel support,you need the tuning, you need the forged engine parts if you start going up in power levels. At least forged pistons and rods are good idea too. You can make decent power with 317 heads and even stock cams.
And of course with the power person then needs stronger rear end to put it to the ground, drag tires to really put it to the ground,upgrades to clutch or auto,etc.
I have over 20k easy into my build and that is not counting the price of the car. and will have over 30k before the car is finished..And thats not even counting labor and did a lot myself.
Thats roughly 10k into the built 408, 6k into the kit with k memember and hooker ypipe.
over 3k for dana 60 and new driveshaft, over 2k for twin pumps, rest of fuel system and that could come close to 3k if go to low impedence with converter box and plug and play harness. 500 for hptuners, like 1500 in boost controller and guages.Still need 5k trans, already have 1000 buck yank stall and several hundred more in conversion parts b ut can sell my old rear end ,t56 ,tex twin to recoupe some of the cost and sold off my old 346.
Have another thousand or so in suspension stuff ,and need real drag radials when feel like hooking up .Nittos aren't very effective past 600rwhp.
But sorry to ramble. Just that people keep posting with how they have 2 grand and want to go turbo. Pretty funny. Not talking about you.
Just that be prepared things will add up and you can't cut that many corners.
04-20-2009, 12:37 PM
#13
On The Tree
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I noticed more and more there seems to be issues and unhappy customers with these kits. Would there be much interest in a APS-like twin kit that used tubular stainless headers and garrett turbos?
04-20-2009, 02:49 PM
#14
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^^^ yeah. speed inc did it for a while then aps released there kit for about half the price.
Jim's(speed inc) kit was bad ***. but with the gt35r twin turbos it ran almost 10k. now if i could of got his kit with cast manifolds. i would love that.
also the problems with aps is the little things. if you look at what you all get it isnt a bad deal. and to be honest i dont think any of us know if aps knew the turbos were bad or going to be bad. the gto and c5 vete kits use same turbos and you never hear anything from them. If the turbos were good the kit is a great kit for the price. us first 50 got the shaft. but a friend of mine ordered one last week. it has upgraded tubes. and fixes for the sway bar. so they are making it good. just it wasnt released good.
Jim's(speed inc) kit was bad ***. but with the gt35r twin turbos it ran almost 10k. now if i could of got his kit with cast manifolds. i would love that.
also the problems with aps is the little things. if you look at what you all get it isnt a bad deal. and to be honest i dont think any of us know if aps knew the turbos were bad or going to be bad. the gto and c5 vete kits use same turbos and you never hear anything from them. If the turbos were good the kit is a great kit for the price. us first 50 got the shaft. but a friend of mine ordered one last week. it has upgraded tubes. and fixes for the sway bar. so they are making it good. just it wasnt released good.
04-20-2009, 04:01 PM
#15
And pretty sure ball bearing are not rebuildable. I have basically a ball bearing gt35R on my 97 talon and almost sure read it was not rebuildable.
So pros and cons to BB and non BB. I think I can be happy with non BB but would like 60 or 65 pound per side. And other than the little things mentioned with the kit generally pretty happy with it.
