Onyx Z

iTrader: (3)

im installing some HID's on my car in a few days and after hearing all the horror stories about melted wires, I decided im going to put a relay and fuse in the system. ive heard of people only using one of the original headlight wires, but I really want to wire up a seperate relay on both lights... or use just one relay, but use both plugs like the stock configuration. I dont like the idea of taping up a plug because its not being used... i want to do this right and use both plugs and make it look as stock as possible. and i dont care about the extra cost. are there any problems that could occur from using 2 relays? or any advice as to how to wire a single relay with both harness plugs being used?

i know that i need a 40W 4 prong relay (and a 15W fuse?), but other than that, I'm pretty much clueless. does anyone have a part number or some kind of reference number i could use when purchasing the relays? Does this crude wiring diagram look correct for 2 separate relays?



Any advice is appreciated!

VIP1

My system is completely side-independent just like you are describing.

I have a relay and fuse per bulb. So 2 fuses (15 AMP ea) and 2 relays (30/40 AMP ea) for the low beams.

Here is my harness:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/11372669-post33.html



I don't remember where I bought all the parts but they were mostly from Amazon, Home Depot, and local auto parts stores. I bought the relays, dual relay harness, and fuse holders from Amazon (I think). I bought 14-4 wire from Home Depot and 14-1 (single) wire from AutoZone or PepBoys. I used 14AWG throughout. Some of the leads in the relay harness were a thinner gauge than 14AWG so I replaced them. All connections are soldered and wrapped in heat shrink.

Follow link for more pics and more info. There are pics there of the harness installed. If you check out the rest of the thread, you'll see my projector setup.

bigboy t/a

iTrader: (2)

i havent really heard of HIDs being a pain in the **** for the camaros but i have heard of them being a pain on the birds.
And for VIP1 how much did the HID set up cost for your formula; asking cause i want to do HIDs on my t/a

VIP1

I bought the...
* Projectors, connectors, mounting plate from Rally Lights (not a sponsor)
* 35watt HID from LED Gauges (no longer a sponsor and there are cheaper places now)
* screws, brackets, misc from Home Depot
* additional wires, connectors, etc from Pepboys, AutoZone, etc

I don't remember the full cost, but its something like this
$165 for Projectors, connectors, mounting plate
$50 for additional connectors, wire, loom, etc (still have some left over)
$20 for screws, etc
$85 for HID (price of my current HID kit -- prices vary from $60 - $140)
$70 for upgraded harness (I'm guessing at this price since I don't remember)
------
$390 Total (I probably forgetting something)
[post 14 from my install thread quotes a different number, I've adjusted this number to show the current setup instead of the original setup.]

I've spent more than that over the course of the project since I've made some changes.
(My original HID kit was $250, so you can add that and other miscellaneous costs to that total to get to a closer number of what I've spent over the years. My current HID kit was about $85 and that is the amount I listed in the cost breakdown above.)

That doesn't include the cost of rivets, flashing, epoxy, silicon, bondo, etc used in modifying the shrouds. I don't remember how much that cost.

You could probably reproduce my setup for under $350 depending on what parts you may already have, where you buy parts, and if you skip steps. I have plenty of materials left over (wire, flashing, silicone, .... etc).



I have not yet posted pics of the 55watt kit installed. I need to do some tweaking first.



Check out the Lighting FAQ for more information on my setup and others.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/appearanc...hting-faq.html
My setup is one of the easiest to do, but there are setups with better output.
(TSX & FX projectors come to mind, but involve more work to seal/encase since they are bare projectors.)

witry

iTrader: (8)

you dont need two relays for one set of HID's thats over kill one 30 or 40 amp relay will work just fine mine has been for two years with out any problems

Onyx Z

iTrader: (3)

i know it is overkill, but i dont want one of the stock plugs just dangling around not being used, i want to do it right as neatly as possible.

unless i find where the two wires from the stock plugs tie together and put the relay before that???

VIP1

I don't think independent relays and fuses are overkill. I think its the right way to do it.
* No dangling live wires
* If one relay blows you still have one working light
* If one fuse blows you still have one working light

With only one relay and one fuse, if anything blows you have no lights. That's a bad idea.

witry

iTrader: (8)

well thats how the stock system is hooked up one relay and one fuse so if something happens you still wont have lights on a stock set up but yea you can run two to make it look cleaner but i have used one for many kits i have installed and no problems with any of them

Onyx Z

iTrader: (3)

do you happen to know where the factory wires to the lights tie together? so i can run just one relay for both lights but have no dangling live wires...

VIP1

I just spent some time studying pages 8-182, 8-184, 8-189, 8-190, and 8-326 in Volume 3 of the Service Manual.

I took pictures of the three pages:
8-182
8-184
8-189
8-190
8-326

According to what I can gather, normal headlamp operation via the switch does not involve any relay or blade fuse. The power comes through a fusible link to the headlamp switch, to the hi/lo dimmer switch, and then on to the headlamps (and headlamp door module on the Firebird which has (2) 15amp mini blade fuses).

The DRL module on the other hand has an internal relay to turn on the low beam headlights and it also gets its power through the same fusible link. The Camaro and Canadian Firebird have a light sensor that tells the DRL when to turn on the headlamps. The USA Firebird does not have the light sensor so you can ignore that internal relay in regards to headlamp operation.

The fog lights on the other hand share a 20amp fuse with the taillights and other items and have their own relay in the fuse block under hood.

Since Whitebird00 is a master at this stuff, hopefully he'll correct me if I reading the schematic incorrectly.

Either way, it looks like the power comes from a single source, a fusible link, which I have not actually seen in person.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

melted wires? How? Most HIDs are 35W (20W less than stock bulbs) or the bright ones are 55W (same as stock bulbs). How do the wires melt from the same or lesser load?

Onyx Z

iTrader: (3)

i have no idea, just what i heard... besides, my hid's were flickering and now that i have a relay they work flawlessly.

VIP1

35w & 55w are the running wattage. They spike higher than that on start up. That is why sometimes one will come on and the other wont.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

Well I've never had just one come on, even at 15 below both kicked right on... I wouldn't think the momentary surge would be enough to damage the wires but I guess I'm wrong.

Onyx Z

iTrader: (3)

what about if i run both of the stock headlight harnesses together into a single power/ground harness then run one relay off of that? will that work? or would it short something out?

i just dont want a hot wire dangling around... i want all plugs to be used. and i really dont want a 4 relays (2 headlights/2 foglights) under the hood cluttering things up.

VIP1

I don't think that would cause any short as long as you don't cross any wires (keep positive-to-positive and negative-to-negative). In that setup, you may want to use diodes to make sure the electrical current from the stock harness can only flow into the new harness and not back-feed out to the car's harness.... although I'm not sure if its necessary in this situation. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have diodes.

Maybe Whitebird00 or someone else can confirm.

Check out the harness thread in the University section of HID Planet's forums for plenty more info on building a harness.

You can mount 2 of the relays where I mounted mine:
(Just make sure to clean off the rust where you connect the wires for power and ground. I used a wire brush and file.)

VIP1

When I was running 35watt HID there were a few times on cold days when only one came on. It was rare, but it happened. Then again, the Firebird also has the headlamp doors sharing the power draw.

Since I've upgraded to 55watt, I didn't want to take any chances.

Onyx Z

iTrader: (3)

do you think you could draw me up a diagram of how this harness is laid out? im having a lot of trouble understanding all this electrical $hit... ive always understood the mechanical side of things, not electrical.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

Oh that could do it. Didn't think of that.

VIP1

I don't have anything written down. I typically do things by stitching together knowledge and first hand experience to get the job done. I'll have to draw something up and get back to you.