fasttagurl

iTrader: (12)

Ok, please chime in with what you know or have experienced. (Especially "track-only" cars) I'm looking into both these mods but am looking to run 10.50s/6.60s or better in the hot Texas weather, say, in the middle of July. This is a NA bracket car that never sees the street and I primarily run Index races, not those races that make you run pump gas.

Powerglide? -
U lose 60" times, lighter than 4L60E, 2 gears
More consistant than a well-built 4L?
Conversion needed with shifter and driveshaft?
What size and stall converter?
What rear-end gears for 1/4 and 1/8 mile? (mainly 1/8)

Alcohol-Powered?-
Cost for this conversion? (Compatible with the normal EFI system?)
What's needed?
How NHRA legal is this at most races?
How does this affect your motor besides it runs cooler? (Currently running Q116, oxygenated race fuel that burns cooler but uses more fuel than say 112.)
ET drop for using alcohol over leaded fuel?

01_ram-air

iTrader: (3)

I'd say go with a TH400/ 5000+ stall converter.

fasttagurl

iTrader: (12)

Appreciated, but I only want to see advantages/disadvantages in swapping a 4L for a Powerglide. T400s are too heavy and car weighs under 3000 lbs.

minytrker

iTrader: (13)

I have used both, th400 and glides in camaro's. I had a th400 and went to a glide in my car. With the right converter and gearing it can still 60 good. I have all nitrous cars so Im not sure on stall on motor. Depending on what class you run, you add a trans brake, electric shifter, and delay box and be really consistant with a glide. I like the glide over the 400.
When I went from a 4l60e to a th400 and 3.90 to 4.30 my 1/8 mile time stayed the same but 1/4 picked up.

studderin

iTrader: (28)

isnt there a better 1st gear ratio for the glides. I was talking to a local is a fast "street" racecar camaro with his and he said make sure you change to the other 1st gear? The bad thoughts on killing the 60s is people the stock 1st ratio. I might be wrong here? And people that out them in heavy car.
im one of those m6 guys still

fasttagurl

iTrader: (12)

1st gear:
4L60E = 3.059
Powerglide = 1.76

BlackScreaminMachine

iTrader: (17)

Michelle, the car is def light enough for a PG but the 1st gear is going to kill the 60 foot more and you do 1/8th mile racing. Your now back to adding more gear to compensate, You car needs to leave hard esp since your running on stock cubes.

Your overall drive ratio has to be similar to the 4L60e/4.xx gear you have now.....

http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=707

This is a import site but this explains transmission ratios vs final drive (rear end gear) in relation to power band (curve).

Have you considered a TH350? I hear you can still trans brake them if needed. Thre fact you got away with a 4LJunkiE is an amazement.

As for Alchohol, there is a whole different beast in of itself, and it wears parts out more, as well as alot of class racing do not allow for it, or it has it's own catagory.

383lt1impala

iTrader: (33)

The 400 is lighter than the 60e make the car loose weight somewhere else. The powerglide if you make it for the 1/8th it isn't going to too friendly in the 1/4. Vice versa.

GIZMO

iTrader: (8)

As stated by others, a Powerglide is going to kill your sixty foot times. I would suggest buying a good TH-350. It will handle the power that you are making. Make sure that you run a deep pan and good synthetic oil. The Th-350 comes with a 2.52 1st gear and you can buy a 2.75 gear set. Aluminum drums are a great upgrade.

There are tons of different gear sets available for the powerglide. Stock they came with a 1.76 or a 1.82. ATI offers 1.66, 1.74, 1.76, 1.80, 1.82, 1.87, 1.90, 1.94, 1.98, 2.08, and 2.18!

pmbmax

I have had them both i would go glide and never look back most racer use 1.80 first in glides for all out race cars. ( they make 5 or so first gear sets) The 60 does not have to suffer. The first gear in the 4l is so low it hurts your 60 in a lite car or a car that makes good power. And if you are going to be bracket racing only alky is the only way the wether changes it dont care. You can run a way smaller radiator and dont have all the heat issues. The only thing on the alky is never use cheap stuff some companys call it washed or none medical grade. stick with like VP or other name brand.

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

I recently sold my TH400 to my brother and picked up a race prepped glide. 1.8 straight cut gears with all the goodies.
If the power is there, it will 60 just as good. (We have put a couple of cars on the bumper on a glide just as easy as on a TH)
I like the fact that there is less drivetrain loss, and less shifting.
But the combination will have to be good. On mine, I am keeping my 3600 stall to increase the load, plus I will be able to come out on more boost than on the TH.

Can't help with the fuel. I just run 104. I may go up to leaded gas, but have not had a need to yet.

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

Regarding the rear end gear, you are styill playing with a 1 to 1 final drive, like you were with the 4l60. (If you did not use overdrive)
You are just going to spend a lot more time in 1st gear.

Dave J

iTrader: (2)

I second getting a th350 at your power level
I am around the same as you and I feel I am losing alot of power with the th400 and with the th350 you can run a tranny brake as well plus 1st gear is a happy medium between the glide and the 4l60E
4L60E is a piece of junk in my opinion and a glide will slow you down

tomcowle

iTrader: (5)

Call Carl Rossler at Rossler Transmissions, he will help you find the right tool for the job.

my humble opinion: go glide

fasttagurl

iTrader: (12)

I only dyno at 467 hp/500 torque due to my converter but you see more accurate numbers at the track. Right now it runs 6.66s usually, I'm not sure if this is fast enough for a glide? I have a low-mid power-band cam so my 60" are usually around 1.41-1.45 when the car acts right. I threw some 5.18 gears in it and it blew the trans! I'm putting 4.56 back in because this has been the best gear for my combo. I don't think I'll be able to run each race on alcohol, so I'll stick with race fuel.

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

The issue with a glide is not how fast you are, it is more an issue of power and weight. I think your car is light enough (Sub 3000 pounds) but the power level is borderline.
Now, you are making up for it with rear end gear - to a point.
But going from a 3.06 to a 1.76 (or 1.8 if straight cut race gears) is going to hurt off the line. You will pick up from the efficiency of the
glide, but it may not be enough down the track.
Now, another factor is that you will have a TB and that will help launch the car. As light as your car is, I am surprised you are not seeing 1.3 60 foots. I think you are leaving a lot on the table there.

As far as cost, it can get ugly quick. You will keep your flexplate, but nothing else. COnverter will nto work. (That I know off) I was able to keep mine because I used a TH input shaft on the glide. But that was from a TH to a Glide, not from a 4L60 to a glide.
New tranny (They get expensive fast, specially with a Read (sp) case. Gonna be 3500 min, and it goes up from there. (you can go much cheaper, but reliability will be an issue.)
New drive shaft, new yokes, and U joints.
I went with a Mark Williams tranny yoke for added safety. (I like my legs)
Just keep in mind that if you do a glide right, you will never have to change trnaies again. (Lets see, I went from 6 gears, to 4, to 3 and now to 2, could have saved a lot if I did it 6 to 2)

Ken95Z28

iTrader: (1)

I have swapped from a 4L60E to a glide and actually picked up. The 60's went away but gained it at the other end. Converter is a big factor, get one that performs! I have an ATI in mine.

Then I had a mind set that I needed to dump the FI and switch to Alky. I went with a Ron's Toilet setup. I picked up over .3 from the FI setup and close to 3mph. Good thing about the Alky is the car runs cooler for sure. I have also installed / created a primer bar that I can run it around on regular gasoline during the warmup phase and idling through the pits. You really need to get the oil temp up to burn off any Alky in the oil.

This was not an easy conversion to do it took many hours to get to this stage.

Villain281H

iTrader: (5)

Glides are nice due to the 1st gear making for what is considered a "softer" hit versus a 3 or 4 speed tranny. Getting a good strong one with aftermarket stuff that will last can cost $2K or more without the converter.

On alcohol, as mentioned it can get costly as well. Running cooler and less per gallon are the pluses. Minuses are re-doing the fuel system, draining/water collection on it, burning 1.5 to 2X the amount of regular gas, cold weather starting, etc etc.

Derek

tomcowle

iTrader: (5)

At his weight and power your average "bracket glide" will be fine, no need for anything exotic.

Why is everyone so hungup on losing 60-times? We race in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile, not 60 feet. If I gained in the 60 and was 2 tenths quicker in overall ET I'd be pretty happy.

GIZMO

iTrader: (8)

What if you could have your cake and eat it too?

There is a lot of ET to be gained in converter/transmission choice.

A few years back a friend of mine with a TH-350 behind a pretty stout LS1 blew his transmission. I leant him one of my TH-350's with a low gear set and some light weight parts and he picked up a tenth in the 1/8th! That wasn't even my best TH-350.