How Strong is a 10 Bolt?
05-12-2009, 10:39 PM
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How Strong is a 10 Bolt? I will soon be doing some mods to my car and i hear a lot about the stock ten bolts being terrible rear ends and not holding up. I was wondering if i took a stock 10 bolt out a 02 Z28 and put moser gears and axles in it would it be any stronger than the stock rearend? Is there anyone out there running this set-up and does anyone know about what kind of horsepower it would hold up to with 3:73s and a 3000 stall? Thanks
lots and lots of NOS. Run it till it blows
05-12-2009, 10:57 PM
#4
If you are a manual, not very. I know someone with a totally stock 01 SS M6 who broke his. Fortunately for him, it was still under warranty.
I put 15k miles on my A4 with a 3.42 rear, TA girdle and 400 rwhp. It was still going strong at the time I started the new engine build.
I put 15k miles on my A4 with a 3.42 rear, TA girdle and 400 rwhp. It was still going strong at the time I started the new engine build.
05-12-2009, 11:02 PM
#5
I've heard buying a girdle for it helps out a decent amount. Other than that I think that the axles are pretty good and with an auto i think you should be good with a 3000 stall and street tires.
05-12-2009, 11:04 PM
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a lot of the people blowing up 10 bolts are on a sticky tire with manual trans and clutch dumping at 5000 rpms at the track and then call them weak.... If i was doing that i wouldnt be calling them weak, id expect it to break.... They get a worse rep then they deserve i think.... There are some that will break with only street tires and stock power, but i think a lot of that has to do with driver as well... It not bullet proof by FAR, but i think overall everyone just hears they are weak as glass and passes it on without ever talking about their mods or how they drive it. Drive it reasonable and i bet it will last you a good while. never know but driving smart sure helps... Seeing as your an auto id bet you'll be fine...
There is a reason they live longer behind automatics, they dont shock the drivetrain.. Dont power shift to hard and dont run a sticky tire and dump the clutch and you should be fine... If lauching with a manual lways make sure you roll foward just slightly before you take off to take up the lash in the ring and pinion... that will help minimize shock...
There is a reason they live longer behind automatics, they dont shock the drivetrain.. Dont power shift to hard and dont run a sticky tire and dump the clutch and you should be fine... If lauching with a manual lways make sure you roll foward just slightly before you take off to take up the lash in the ring and pinion... that will help minimize shock...
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05-13-2009, 10:52 AM
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Man, Ive blown mine with STOCK power and street tires! ...its not fairing too good im my book right now. I am about to begin doing Suspension mods and this is a growning concern for me.
05-13-2009, 01:49 PM
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In my opinion it totally depends on how you drive the car...and how lucky you are. I have the stock 10 bolt in mine putting pretty big power through it and launching at 4500 on sticky BFGs and it is still holding, although each time I did this I had people there ready to push me back to the trailer lol...
Drive it till it breaks and then buy something that will hold the power...I dont really see any point in spending money to try and beef up a 10 bolt
Drive it till it breaks and then buy something that will hold the power...I dont really see any point in spending money to try and beef up a 10 bolt
05-13-2009, 07:39 PM
#10
go to the top of the forum and look in the yellow highlited area click on it and go down to how strong is a 10 bolt its a very good explanation it will answer all of your questions , i read it after blowing out my 10 bolt in my automatic , you get what you pay for , if youve blown out one ten bolt then chances are youll blow out another , because of your driving or whatever so why waist money and build another and bust it again go with a 12 bolt or 9 inch a 10 bolt is a smaller weaker rear the 12 bolt and 9 inch are bigger and beefier end of story , just read this that i cut from that sticky i mentioned Here's an answer for super-frequently asked questions.
When will my 10 bolt break?
Unfortunately, there is no 'set' horsepower where the 10 bolt will give out. It can break on stock power, at 350hp, 400hp, even 500hp+ for some lucky ones.
Because you cannot gauge exactly when it will break, it is important to think ahead a little bit, and take some steps to preserving your 10 bolt if a 12 bolt is not in your immediate plans.
Track hints:
1. If you are going to be drag racing frequently and plan on running very sticky drag radials, you might want to think about getting to know someone who has a truck & trailer, just in case.
2. If you have an automatic car, you have a better chance of a longer-lasting rear end, due to less shock in the drivetrain. This does not mean it will never break - it'll just last longer.
3. Cars that come equipped with Torsen (mechanical) differentials tend to have more problems than Auburn (clutched) differentials. You can see which differential you have at your next rear-end fluid changing interval. If you have a torsen rear end, you will see gears inside of the differential, and there will be a steel block pushing your axles out. If you have an Auburn differential, you will see bright yellow springs inside of it.
3a. The torsens seem to wear out quicker whether you race or not. Tell-tale signs of a fading torsen are ratcheting/clunking noises when turning/low speeds/etc. If your torsen does break, you can replace it with another, or pick up an aftermarket carrier.
Preserving your 10-bolt:
1. Eliminate wheel hop. Suspension is very important - what good is a lot of power if you cannot channel it to the ground effectively? Wheel hop breaks rear ends. To minimize wheel hop consider stiffening your suspension. Aftermarket lower control arms, relocation brackets, panhard bars, even torque arms will help plant your rear to the ground.
2. Maintain your differential. Always keep an eye on the fluid. Fluid seeping from the pinion seal is normal on these cars, but if it begins to drip onto the floor have it replaced.
3. If your rear end makes a considerable amount of noise, or you have had gears installed and the noise continually gets worse, consider having the car looked at. Failure of individual parts can trigger others to fail as well, so try and fix the problem before it gets any worse.
How do I beef up my 10 bolt?
You don't.
It seems like too easy of an answer, but it holds true. The 10 bolt will always be limited by the fact that it is simply smaller than a 12 bolt, 9 inch, or Dana 60. Smaller = weaker.
Besides replacing the ring & pinion and bearings, adding aftermarket parts such as stronger axles only seems to be a waste of money. The minute you fix one thing, another will break. Rear end installs can be costly if you are not doing the labor yourself - it adds up quick. Don't be the guy who says he can't afford a 12 bolt, but has spent $1500 dumping money into his 10 bolt.
__________________reading this is what made me not rebuild my 10 bolt for the second time and just get what i should have in the first place before spending $1600 on my 10 bolt ,
When will my 10 bolt break?
Unfortunately, there is no 'set' horsepower where the 10 bolt will give out. It can break on stock power, at 350hp, 400hp, even 500hp+ for some lucky ones.
Because you cannot gauge exactly when it will break, it is important to think ahead a little bit, and take some steps to preserving your 10 bolt if a 12 bolt is not in your immediate plans.
Track hints:
1. If you are going to be drag racing frequently and plan on running very sticky drag radials, you might want to think about getting to know someone who has a truck & trailer, just in case.
2. If you have an automatic car, you have a better chance of a longer-lasting rear end, due to less shock in the drivetrain. This does not mean it will never break - it'll just last longer.
3. Cars that come equipped with Torsen (mechanical) differentials tend to have more problems than Auburn (clutched) differentials. You can see which differential you have at your next rear-end fluid changing interval. If you have a torsen rear end, you will see gears inside of the differential, and there will be a steel block pushing your axles out. If you have an Auburn differential, you will see bright yellow springs inside of it.
3a. The torsens seem to wear out quicker whether you race or not. Tell-tale signs of a fading torsen are ratcheting/clunking noises when turning/low speeds/etc. If your torsen does break, you can replace it with another, or pick up an aftermarket carrier.
Preserving your 10-bolt:
1. Eliminate wheel hop. Suspension is very important - what good is a lot of power if you cannot channel it to the ground effectively? Wheel hop breaks rear ends. To minimize wheel hop consider stiffening your suspension. Aftermarket lower control arms, relocation brackets, panhard bars, even torque arms will help plant your rear to the ground.
2. Maintain your differential. Always keep an eye on the fluid. Fluid seeping from the pinion seal is normal on these cars, but if it begins to drip onto the floor have it replaced.
3. If your rear end makes a considerable amount of noise, or you have had gears installed and the noise continually gets worse, consider having the car looked at. Failure of individual parts can trigger others to fail as well, so try and fix the problem before it gets any worse.
How do I beef up my 10 bolt?
You don't.
It seems like too easy of an answer, but it holds true. The 10 bolt will always be limited by the fact that it is simply smaller than a 12 bolt, 9 inch, or Dana 60. Smaller = weaker.
Besides replacing the ring & pinion and bearings, adding aftermarket parts such as stronger axles only seems to be a waste of money. The minute you fix one thing, another will break. Rear end installs can be costly if you are not doing the labor yourself - it adds up quick. Don't be the guy who says he can't afford a 12 bolt, but has spent $1500 dumping money into his 10 bolt.
__________________reading this is what made me not rebuild my 10 bolt for the second time and just get what i should have in the first place before spending $1600 on my 10 bolt ,
05-14-2009, 02:03 AM
#11
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You raise a valid point concerning 10 bolts. But, in general the unit will hold 500 HP if properly set up. Meaning, stronger axles (aftermarket Superior, Strange, Moser etc.) plus a good posi unit. The truetrac and torsen are favored by road racers while the Auburn and Detroit locker diff are prefered by drag racers.
Auburn diffs and reinforced cover plates (girdles) solve a lot of problems. Unless you are going to 600 HP and above, the above 10 bolt upgrades solve a lot of problems economically. 31 spline axles and higher are not necessary unless you intend to consistantly drag race with slicks.
I have an M6 making 411 to the wheels with an Auburn diff, 3.73 gears, Superior axles, and a Summit girdle and have had no problems with the set up.
Auburn diffs and reinforced cover plates (girdles) solve a lot of problems. Unless you are going to 600 HP and above, the above 10 bolt upgrades solve a lot of problems economically. 31 spline axles and higher are not necessary unless you intend to consistantly drag race with slicks.
I have an M6 making 411 to the wheels with an Auburn diff, 3.73 gears, Superior axles, and a Summit girdle and have had no problems with the set up.
