How to go from 380whp to ~450 w/o nitrous.
05-13-2009, 10:42 AM
#1
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How to go from 380whp to ~450 w/o nitrous. LS1 bottom end w/ LS6 cam
LS6 heads
LS6 intake
Ported TB, SLP lid, FTRA
Pacesetter LT, Magnaflow catback
160* thermostat & speed density tune
Engine is good for 380hp/373tq at the wheels through a T56 with the AFR in the 13.3-13.4:1 range. All engine accessories, stock pulley, no EGR/AIR, stock 10-bolt, etc and the car is daily driven in Chicago w/ minor suspension work.
What is the most economical and "reliable" way to extract ~450whp from it? I've been leaning away from an overly aggressive cam in favor of more cubes via stroking or maybe even an LS2 block. Can a 364 or 383 reach that goal using the LS6 top end + a streetable cam?
If going w/ 383CID, is it adviseable to stay with the 6000RPM rev limit. How well would 4.10's play with the added torque of a 383 on street tires?
Thanks!
Adi
LS6 heads
LS6 intake
Ported TB, SLP lid, FTRA
Pacesetter LT, Magnaflow catback
160* thermostat & speed density tune
Engine is good for 380hp/373tq at the wheels through a T56 with the AFR in the 13.3-13.4:1 range. All engine accessories, stock pulley, no EGR/AIR, stock 10-bolt, etc and the car is daily driven in Chicago w/ minor suspension work.
What is the most economical and "reliable" way to extract ~450whp from it? I've been leaning away from an overly aggressive cam in favor of more cubes via stroking or maybe even an LS2 block. Can a 364 or 383 reach that goal using the LS6 top end + a streetable cam?
If going w/ 383CID, is it adviseable to stay with the 6000RPM rev limit. How well would 4.10's play with the added torque of a 383 on street tires?
Thanks!
Adi
Last edited by Quick99Si; 05-13-2009 at 01:45 PM.
05-13-2009, 11:34 AM
#5
Keep the cam small for a daily:
Ported FAST intake
Ported AFR 205s or TFS 215s
85mm MAF
LS6 cam
This will be a little cheaper on parts and a good bit less labor. It'll also be super reliable and should get you to you number with no compromise. You will likely need to upgrade injectors and certainly need an optimized tune.
Ported FAST intake
Ported AFR 205s or TFS 215s
85mm MAF
LS6 cam
This will be a little cheaper on parts and a good bit less labor. It'll also be super reliable and should get you to you number with no compromise. You will likely need to upgrade injectors and certainly need an optimized tune.
05-13-2009, 12:18 PM
#6
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No reason not to want a ported head. I just prefer the LS6 components if they are compatible with the power goal, especially when considering the cost of new heads. And yes, 13.4AFR peak at WOT. It's oddly flat, I even brought the wideband into question because it varied by 0.1:1 for the entire 4th gear run after initial tip-in.
What is the optimal AFR range for pump gas near sea level for an LS engine?
The MAF will likely be relegated to a paper-weight since I'm running a SD tune. With all this heads/intake talk, are you guys saying the LS6 stuff (ported or not) will have to be changed in order to reach mid-400's?
BTW lol @ TXZ28's sig
What is the optimal AFR range for pump gas near sea level for an LS engine?
The MAF will likely be relegated to a paper-weight since I'm running a SD tune. With all this heads/intake talk, are you guys saying the LS6 stuff (ported or not) will have to be changed in order to reach mid-400's?
BTW lol @ TXZ28's sig
05-13-2009, 12:53 PM
#7
How the heck do you even have 380 now with so few mods? All I see is headers, tune, and the basic mods. No cam, no aftermarket heads and you make 380 now. I wish my car was a freak. It took a cam and all the bolt ons to reach 380 for me on motor.
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05-13-2009, 01:16 PM
#8
Well 450-380= 70. Your making pretty good power for your mods which don't include a cam so.... I would think with a cam and heads you should be able to pick up 70 hp.
I'll pm you with some options.
As far as a/f I'm not a tuner personally but from what I've seen from my tuner and others is that 12.5-8 is what they like at WOT. Playing it safer rather than trying to eek out a few extra ponies. BUT to some 12.5 is way to fat and 13.3 is safe so I wasn't saying it was good or bad just clarifying. We did an experiment where we kept leaning it out and adding timing an only gained 3hp. Gain wasn't worth the the risk so we play it safe.
But others will have other opinions, with my personal stuff I always error to the caution side.
I'll pm you with some options.
As far as a/f I'm not a tuner personally but from what I've seen from my tuner and others is that 12.5-8 is what they like at WOT. Playing it safer rather than trying to eek out a few extra ponies. BUT to some 12.5 is way to fat and 13.3 is safe so I wasn't saying it was good or bad just clarifying. We did an experiment where we kept leaning it out and adding timing an only gained 3hp. Gain wasn't worth the the risk so we play it safe.
But others will have other opinions, with my personal stuff I always error to the caution side.
Last edited by 99blancoSS; 05-13-2009 at 01:29 PM.
05-13-2009, 01:26 PM
#9
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gotta realize he's got ls6 heads...so figure a little more compression and some added flow. could easily see +15-20hp over stock ls1 heads.
plenty of guys are in the mid 260rwhp range with bolt ons.
and i'm sure the SD tune helps a little, as long as conditions when you race are the same as when you tuned
since you mention stroking, i'm guessing you have some $$$ to work with. making your power goal will be MUCH easier with more cubes like a 383. not to mention you'll be able to do it with a much milder cam. and by going with that stroker, you won't sacrifice added weight of the 6.0L iron block.
pull the ls6 heads and send them out to someone like TEA for a good port job. then stick a mild cam in there, probabaly custom spec'd by someone like Patrick G. or PredatorZ.
by using some aggressive lobes and good lift to take advantage of the flow potential of the ported LS6 heads.
top it with a ported FAST intake (possibly port matched) and you should be at or above your goal.
05-13-2009, 02:03 PM
#10
I have 385 rwhp with stock LS1 heads and similar mods to him. Get AFR heads milled to 62cc and a ported Fast 92/92 from tony mamo. This is what I want to do. With similar mods U/D pulley electric water pump should be around 475 rwhp streetable.
With a 383 it should be easier with similar mods, just my opinion.
With a 383 it should be easier with similar mods, just my opinion.
05-13-2009, 02:05 PM
#11
It says it has the ls6 cam at the top of the thread guys. Doesn't specify 01 or 02 though. If it is the 02 the specs are 204 218 .551 .551 117.5 lsa. Def not a huge cam but its a cam. Combined with the 243's its basically a z06 motor which was rated by gm at 405hp. So 380rwhp through a t-56 isnt unreasonable.
05-13-2009, 02:53 PM
#13
It says it has the ls6 cam at the top of the thread guys. Doesn't specify 01 or 02 though. If it is the 02 the specs are 204 218 .551 .551 117.5 lsa. Def not a huge cam but its a cam. Combined with the 243's its basically a z06 motor which was rated by gm at 405hp. So 380rwhp through a t-56 isnt unreasonable.
I am confident a ported FAST combo with ported AFR 205s (or TFS 215s) will get 430-ish rwhp and maybe matching torque. Getting 450 out of that combo would require a ton more effort maximizing exhaust (ARHs or Kooks + duals), lid/airbox, EWP, etc. but I think it's do-able. Throw in a bigger cam and it gets easier, but I didn't get the impression he wanted those tradeoffs...
If you shop, you can get used LS2 shortblocks for under 3000. Port the heads, out of box FAST, and moderate cam and BOOM. But pulling the motor and the associated cost and hassle may offset the benefit.
I think he's got a great candidate for the AFR 205s and FAST combo, ported, and see close to his goal with stellar driveability.
05-13-2009, 03:27 PM
#14
He could probably step up to the tr220 on a 114 without much drivability loss if any. That cam is kind of a bottleneck with the 117.5 lsa. I think gmhtp put afr 205's on a stock ls2 and only got like 425 at the wheels with all the boltons. But it did still have the ls2 intake though.
05-14-2009, 09:11 AM
#15
It says it has the ls6 cam at the top of the thread guys. Doesn't specify 01 or 02 though. If it is the 02 the specs are 204 218 .551 .551 117.5 lsa. Def not a huge cam but its a cam. Combined with the 243's its basically a z06 motor which was rated by gm at 405hp. So 380rwhp through a t-56 isnt unreasonable.
Not to hijack the thread but how much does a used set of ls6 243 heads go for now days?
05-14-2009, 09:48 AM
#17
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With the right cam to match the heads. You could probly get pretty close to 420rwhp range. Get a custom grind cam thats not overkill, fast90/90, better headers, w/x-pipe, and cut outs or drop the catback then a wicked tune. I think you get real close to 440rwhp, cause if theres z0's gettin 430rwhp cam only and full bolt on. I dont see why you couldnt get more than that in a m6 f-body.
05-15-2009, 01:07 PM
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(link: http://www.euroteknik.com/forum/gene...-ls6-dyno.html)