Generation IV Internal Engine - FI LSX 454 not very common ????




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AZ2ENVY
05-24-2009, 06:44 PM
The more I look around I have never seen a Forced Induction
LSX 454 . Why is that ? Its probably a stupid question but I
havent looked into the LSX block specs and tolerances . I think
it would be badass to have a LSX 454 with a ATI F-1 strapped
on it :devil:


PUNISHER TA
05-24-2009, 06:50 PM
I may be a little off on the specs. but i think its not recommended to run over a 4.1 bore with FI

Walls get too thin

barkingspud
05-24-2009, 08:47 PM
I would also suggest that you don't need big cubes with forced induction.


Haans249
05-24-2009, 11:26 PM
You can do FI on the 454, but it won't last long. Pistons would be too weak and you don't have much if any gaskets between the cylinders. The most I would run on FI is a 427 (4.125 bore/4 stroke). Anything over that and you're looking more at a race only setup (rebuilding your motor often).

spoolit
05-25-2009, 12:25 AM
The more I look around I have never seen a Forced Induction
LSX 454 . Why is that ? Its probably a stupid question but I
havent looked into the LSX block specs and tolerances . I think
it would be badass to have a LSX 454 with a ATI F-1 strapped
on it :devil:

There are TT LSX iron 454ci's that make 1600hp and are designed for street use.

You just have to have big turbos or a really stupid loud, big supercharger to feed that many cubes. Not very street or daily driver friendly with the supercharger. But with twin turbos it can be pretty tame, considering the power it'll make.
All you need is a TT or T 408ci to make 1500hp with an LSX iron block.

There's also SBC 454 TT's that have been around for awhile. Thsoe suckers make 2,000+ hp in street cars.

s1ck s0n
05-25-2009, 12:27 AM
i want a 454 lsx.

LS6427
05-25-2009, 12:32 AM
i want a 454 lsx.

I have an LSX block...and I was going to build a 454...only problem is the cylinders suck, they're too short. Yet another horrible design by the GM boys.

Best you can get and stay safe and reliable is a 4.185 bore x 4.1 stroke. For a 451ci. But I still don't like that 4.185 bore.

If they made the cylinders longer it would have been nice to do a 4.125 bore x 4.250 stroke. 454ci.

I;d hate to go more than 4.155 on the bore to start with.

A relseeved LS2 is the way to go. Or settle for a 434ci LSX iron with a 4.155 bore x 4" stroke. I plan to hit it with a 300 shot.


.

s1ck s0n
05-25-2009, 12:33 AM
i want a 451 lsx.

conan
05-25-2009, 12:46 AM
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1114488-my-procharged-451-lsx-build-procharger-f1c.html

ToBiN!
05-25-2009, 12:51 AM
something like a sbc 427 sounds completely bad ass to me. If I had the funds, I would love to build one of these engines! wow. Even an ole sbc 400 always sounds nice under the hood of an fbody.

veee8
05-25-2009, 08:39 AM
I have an LSX block...and I was going to build a 454...only problem is the cylinders suck, they're too short. Yet another horrible design by the GM boys.

Best you can get and stay safe and reliable is a 4.185 bore x 4.1 stroke. For a 451ci. But I still don't like that 4.185 bore.

If they made the cylinders longer it would have been nice to do a 4.125 bore x 4.250 stroke. 454ci.

I;d hate to go more than 4.155 on the bore to start with.

A relseeved LS2 is the way to go. Or settle for a 434ci LSX iron with a 4.155 bore x 4" stroke. I plan to hit it with a 300 shot.


.

They make a tall deck lsx block so you can run a real long stroke.

383lt1impala
05-25-2009, 09:39 AM
Why not put a gear driven f3.

The1N_only
05-25-2009, 04:19 PM
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1114488-my-procharged-451-lsx-build-procharger-f1c.html

Thats gonna be one heck of a setup :chug:

99blancoSS
05-25-2009, 05:34 PM
Haans249 is right, how long do you want it to last?

We dont go beyond a 4.155 bore and 4" stroke with the LSX block for a reason when doing FI or heavy N2o use. There are other options out the like an ERL superdeck, but as far as the bowtie LSX block goes the cylinder length is the key to what Haans is saying.

LS6427
05-26-2009, 02:40 AM
They make a tall deck lsx block so you can run a real long stroke.

Is it available?

Who sells them?

How much are they?

nastychevelle
05-26-2009, 06:49 AM
this guy has a 454 with a 106mm turbo i think he has a name on here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNtCHsBLlwM&feature=related

jermzz
05-26-2009, 09:08 AM
You just need a tall deck LSX. NRE makes a TT 454 that does 2500hp. on high boost.

jermzz
05-26-2009, 09:11 AM
Haans249 is right, how long do you want it to last?

We dont go beyond a 4.155 bore and 4" stroke with the LSX block for a reason when doing FI or heavy N2o use. There are other options out the like an ERL superdeck, but as far as the bowtie LSX block goes the cylinder length is the key to what Haans is saying.

LME has several LSX 454s out there running huge shots, and Bryan says there's nothing wrong with doing it. I plan on hitting mine with 300 soon enough. I know of a couple on this forum who do it already with success. And I'm talking about motors with 2 years or more of runtime.

99blancoSS
05-26-2009, 09:27 AM
LME has several LSX 454s out there running huge shots, and Bryan says there's nothing wrong with doing it. I plan on hitting mine with 300 soon enough. I know of a couple on this forum who do it already with success. And I'm talking about motors with 2 years or more of runtime.

I'm not going to argue about this, in fact I'll just drop it right here because your are very misinformed.

99LS6SS
05-26-2009, 10:53 AM
ERL has a FI short block with around 480 cubes or something. But it's an expensive block.
http://erlperformance.com/images/stories/techbriefs/ERLcatalogFINAL.pdf

LS6427
05-26-2009, 06:21 PM
You just need a tall deck LSX. NRE makes a TT 454 that does 2500hp. on high boost.

Yeah, that NRE guy is the king. $36,000 for a 1,650 hp daily driver street engine with a warranty. WOW.
:D

2000_SS
05-26-2009, 06:45 PM
It's your money do what you want with it. if you're comfortable putting a huge N2O hit or a lot of boost on that little piston that comes so close to the bottom of the clyinder, with no meat between cylinders...be my guest.

yeah it'll work. yeah it'll be fast. yeah...you'll rebuild it every other week too. why would you go that big with a FI motor? you people really think you need 454 cubic inches? a 427 or 434 just wouldn't cut it? there's a HELL of a lot more to it and making big displacement with big heads and big cams. talk to any I N T E L L I G E N T builder, and they will steer your away from a $15K mistake FASTER than you think your car would go with that setup ;)

...but it's just money. put up or shut up :thumb:

jermzz
05-26-2009, 07:12 PM
It's your money do what you want with it. if you're comfortable putting a huge N2O hit or a lot of boost on that little piston that comes so close to the bottom of the clyinder, with no meat between cylinders...be my guest.

yeah it'll work. yeah it'll be fast. yeah...you'll rebuild it every other week too. why would you go that big with a FI motor? you people really think you need 454 cubic inches? a 427 or 434 just wouldn't cut it? there's a HELL of a lot more to it and making big displacement with big heads and big cams. talk to any I N T E L L I G E N T builder, and they will steer your away from a $15K mistake FASTER than you think your car would go with that setup ;)

...but it's just money. put up or shut up :thumb:

When I had bryan build my motor, I was debating between a 440 and a 454. Wanting to spray atleast a 250. I was aware of the ring pack problem but Bryan assured me that the motor would be fine. Also talked to another guy who was already running the same setup with multiple bottles through the motor and not a single issue.

Im not disputing that there could be a problem, but how can you argue with good results? People are so scared to do things that "wont work" when other people do them all the time with great results.

maybe it's hit or miss, but hey. people have motors that let go all the time. Nobody ever said a 600+ hp motor was a good investment :devil:

2000_SS
05-26-2009, 08:02 PM
^ very true, it's all money wasted in the name of "smiles per gallon." My 454 is never going to see spray or boost...100-125 shot MAYBE if that's what it takes to get the ET i'm after, but that's the most i would ever risk. if i wanted to go faster, i'd do another tear-down, sell the shortblock, and start over with a fresh block with a smaller bore/stroke then pile on the boost.

if, IF, it were a purpose-built race car that never saw street duty and i could afford parts every weekend..then yeah i might hit it a little harder, but that's not the case. My build has broke me as is and it's quite a ways from finished yet. if it breaks catastrophically, it'll be sold and that will be the end of it.

Bryan@LME
05-27-2009, 12:05 PM
When customers come to us looking to run power adders with large cubic inch engines I always try to steer them towards a 4.0" stroke or shorter combination. This is for the obvious benefits in piston strength and stability. However when building an engine such as a LSX 454 it is possible to build a piston that is capable of handling a 300 shot of nitrous. The custom Wiseco 454" flat top parts that we have made, have .260" of material above the top ring land & .082" from the intake pocket to land. This is adequate thickness for a 300 shot of gas. As always the proper tune is crucial.

cutlass_455
05-27-2009, 12:35 PM
Cant the GMPP LSX tall deck blocks be built up to like 511 cubes or something?? Now thats some serious displacement for a street engine.

Blown427conv
05-27-2009, 12:54 PM
I saw a build up of a 454 LSX in Hot Rod or something by World I think. They said there is not enough cylinder spacing to keep the heads sealed with forced induction or too big a shot of NOS. There is only .250" left if I recall correctly between the cylinders. They went with high compression, head studs, and Cometic gaskets. You would have to keep a forced induction set-up mild to do it. Might as well go smaller bore and higher boost like the ricers do...

PUNISHER TA
05-27-2009, 01:04 PM
People are so stupid.

When i was looking at what size to go with, i wanted to go with a 454, I asked about nitrous, one person said no, okay.

No nitrous. maybe one day ill have money to experiment with some nitrous, when i can afford to rebuild my entire motor.

Thats not now.

I just dont understand why you would do any chancing.

"Hopefully itll work"<<< Never a good idea


:End Rant:

dads toy
05-28-2009, 03:26 PM
just something magical about that 454 number. but I think the 427 reminds me of bigger power than the 454 in past motors. Doubt I would ever take a chance with a 15-20k motor.

ERL Performance
06-02-2009, 04:01 PM
When you are talking about big cubic inch engine, the first thing people think is that there isn't anyway that it's going to be reliable right, because you have to have a large stroke and a large bore. The beauty of our 500 CI ERL Superdeck II short block is that even with a 4.500 stroke crankshaft and a 4.200 bore in an LS2 block it remains extremely reliable. 99blancoSS is correct when he was saying that you can build big cubic inch engine but the question is how long do you want it to last?
One of the things that makes our design unique is our sleeve length and our extended deck height. Those 2 things combined are wonderful for reliability. Here is a picture of the underneath side of one of our 500 CI Superdeck II blocks and you can see that only an 1/8 of an inch of the piston skirt comes out of the bottom of our sleeves.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/erl1234/500MP0019.jpg
We do have a FI 482 CI ERL Superdeck II block that was mentioned earlier and everything is the same except the bore size(4.125) and rod length.(6.600) The 4.125 bore has more meat between the sleeves so it allows you to run big boost and nitrous through it. The 500 CI has had 250 shot thrown at it plenty of times as well with zero issues. Both of these short blocks are very reasonable in my opinion starting at 9,900.00 for the fully assembled short block. Just talk to the guys down at S.A.M. about how reliable our 500 CI is. They've had there's since 2006 and have beat on it ever since.