Just bought turbowerks scavenger for my aps tt car.
06-03-2009, 03:16 PM
#1
Just bought turbowerks scavenger for my aps tt car. Well with all the scavenger pump talk lately figured just do it already.
I got the turbowerks pump the better one and likely have it installed within month or so. I think will replace the current crappy return hoses with stainless ones. Not sure yet where to mount it but one pump looks easier to mount than two pumps and it is advertised quiet so hope they are not lying.
My car being a street car don't want loud annoying noises. I will likely take pics of the install and of course give full report .I have not been seeing any oil from my setup but also have not been pushing it to high boost or staying in boost very long. I figure this is a bit of preventive medicine and Louis has said he has done like 10/12 with scavenger pumps. I of course respect his opinions and likely we will be doing some business on some new center carts.
You can search the pump since guess not allowed to post ebay link. I just got it off ebay and shipping was good price to canada and many places have ridiculous shipping. So maybe paid a couple bucks more for the pump but shipping makes up for it.And using two smaller pumps would add up to a bit more. Only a bit worried if scavenger pump dies then guess you would lose both turbos and engine?
That worries me some. A good reason to spend the bucks on a top quality one.
I got the turbowerks pump the better one and likely have it installed within month or so. I think will replace the current crappy return hoses with stainless ones. Not sure yet where to mount it but one pump looks easier to mount than two pumps and it is advertised quiet so hope they are not lying.
My car being a street car don't want loud annoying noises. I will likely take pics of the install and of course give full report .I have not been seeing any oil from my setup but also have not been pushing it to high boost or staying in boost very long. I figure this is a bit of preventive medicine and Louis has said he has done like 10/12 with scavenger pumps. I of course respect his opinions and likely we will be doing some business on some new center carts.
You can search the pump since guess not allowed to post ebay link. I just got it off ebay and shipping was good price to canada and many places have ridiculous shipping. So maybe paid a couple bucks more for the pump but shipping makes up for it.And using two smaller pumps would add up to a bit more. Only a bit worried if scavenger pump dies then guess you would lose both turbos and engine?
That worries me some. A good reason to spend the bucks on a top quality one.
06-03-2009, 03:26 PM
#2
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[QUOTE=MY99TAWS6;11698912
Only a bit worried if scavenger pump dies then guess you would lose both turbos and engine?
That worries me some. A good reason to spend the bucks on a top quality one.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry...Unless you are completely blind when driving then you will notice that your car resembles a crop duster well in advance to losing your motor
. You catch it in time to stop the vehicle and you might just save the turbos too....
Only a bit worried if scavenger pump dies then guess you would lose both turbos and engine?
That worries me some. A good reason to spend the bucks on a top quality one.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry...Unless you are completely blind when driving then you will notice that your car resembles a crop duster well in advance to losing your motor
. You catch it in time to stop the vehicle and you might just save the turbos too.... 
Did you hook up your PCV system as APS suggested or noticed any blow-by yet?
06-03-2009, 06:35 PM
#4
I am hooked up as aps manual. I also bought a catch can that plan to install shortly as well.
I have not really been going wot yet and holding it too long in boost.I need some new tires before have the courage to floor this thing. At part throttle and light boost don't seem to be seeing any oil out the back. I have not looked in inlets or anywhere else though. I don't seem to smell any oil but when do go up on throttle seem to smell something but that might be ceramic paint that tried to use on exhaust manifolds.Likely turbos are cooking that paint off there.I will get them actually ceramic coated one of these days if ever have the manifolds off the car again.And likely do the exhaust housing as well.
I have not really been going wot yet and holding it too long in boost.I need some new tires before have the courage to floor this thing. At part throttle and light boost don't seem to be seeing any oil out the back. I have not looked in inlets or anywhere else though. I don't seem to smell any oil but when do go up on throttle seem to smell something but that might be ceramic paint that tried to use on exhaust manifolds.Likely turbos are cooking that paint off there.I will get them actually ceramic coated one of these days if ever have the manifolds off the car again.And likely do the exhaust housing as well.
06-03-2009, 06:45 PM
#5
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I am hooked up as aps manual. I also bought a catch can that plan to install shortly as well.
I have not really been going wot yet and holding it too long in boost.I need some new tires before have the courage to floor this thing. At part throttle and light boost don't seem to be seeing any oil out the back. I have not looked in inlets or anywhere else though. I don't seem to smell any oil but when do go up on throttle seem to smell something but that might be ceramic paint that tried to use on exhaust manifolds.Likely turbos are cooking that paint off there.I will get them actually ceramic coated one of these days if ever have the manifolds off the car again.And likely do the exhaust housing as well.
I have not really been going wot yet and holding it too long in boost.I need some new tires before have the courage to floor this thing. At part throttle and light boost don't seem to be seeing any oil out the back. I have not looked in inlets or anywhere else though. I don't seem to smell any oil but when do go up on throttle seem to smell something but that might be ceramic paint that tried to use on exhaust manifolds.Likely turbos are cooking that paint off there.I will get them actually ceramic coated one of these days if ever have the manifolds off the car again.And likely do the exhaust housing as well.
06-03-2009, 06:55 PM
#6
Hmm interesting.That setup looks slick but not idea where to even mount more stuff in my engine bay going to be a challenge mounting the scavenger pump. I can't see why there would be so much blowby do you have a blown engine? Or old engine or super big clearance on the rings?
I would think the scavenger pump will help if its oil coming thru the turbos. If its blowby then yeah guess your think might help.
Have to wait a bit on my car and see how it goes.
There have been a few aps cars that didn't seem to have any problems really with the gravity feed system..Kellientes car and Huggers to name two.
So is the catch can full of oil too? Is it coming in the thru there sucked from the engine or is it coming thru the intercooler and into the tb that way?Have you checked air inlet tubes and are you seeing much oil out the back of your car?
Hard to see massive blow by if you have hardly went into boost??
I would think the scavenger pump will help if its oil coming thru the turbos. If its blowby then yeah guess your think might help.
Have to wait a bit on my car and see how it goes.
There have been a few aps cars that didn't seem to have any problems really with the gravity feed system..Kellientes car and Huggers to name two.
So is the catch can full of oil too? Is it coming in the thru there sucked from the engine or is it coming thru the intercooler and into the tb that way?Have you checked air inlet tubes and are you seeing much oil out the back of your car?
Hard to see massive blow by if you have hardly went into boost??
06-04-2009, 12:07 AM
#7
Good deal. I do not hook them up the way APS recommends on the PCV. I simply separate everything related to the engine and the intake, that way, nothing can go "missing" and if it spits oil out, it will be in a catch can.
I would also recommend a valve cover breather, as the catch cans work well, but they do not flow enough air under boost. SO, the catch can to catch the oil, and allow for a little breathing, and the valve cover filter to do most of the work, and nothing hooked up to the intake side of things.
I would also recommend a valve cover breather, as the catch cans work well, but they do not flow enough air under boost. SO, the catch can to catch the oil, and allow for a little breathing, and the valve cover filter to do most of the work, and nothing hooked up to the intake side of things.
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06-04-2009, 02:18 AM
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Hmm interesting.That setup looks slick but not idea where to even mount more stuff in my engine bay going to be a challenge mounting the scavenger pump. I can't see why there would be so much blowby do you have a blown engine? Or old engine or super big clearance on the rings?
I would think the scavenger pump will help if its oil coming thru the turbos. If its blowby then yeah guess your think might help.
Have to wait a bit on my car and see how it goes.
There have been a few aps cars that didn't seem to have any problems really with the gravity feed system..Kellientes car and Huggers to name two.
So is the catch can full of oil too? Is it coming in the thru there sucked from the engine or is it coming thru the intercooler and into the tb that way?Have you checked air inlet tubes and are you seeing much oil out the back of your car?
Hard to see massive blow by if you have hardly went into boost??
I would think the scavenger pump will help if its oil coming thru the turbos. If its blowby then yeah guess your think might help.
Have to wait a bit on my car and see how it goes.
There have been a few aps cars that didn't seem to have any problems really with the gravity feed system..Kellientes car and Huggers to name two.
So is the catch can full of oil too? Is it coming in the thru there sucked from the engine or is it coming thru the intercooler and into the tb that way?Have you checked air inlet tubes and are you seeing much oil out the back of your car?
Hard to see massive blow by if you have hardly went into boost??
I actually called and talked to Lou @ LG then talked with Greg @ GZ about this and they both offered some good advice. Neither agreed with the APS reccomended setup and they each had thier own suggestions. The pump seems like a good investment and seeing as things are pretty loose in the motor already it should help it seal (or at least i'm hoping it will) and let me disconnect everything that is now fogging my intake with oil.
06-05-2009, 07:51 PM
#14
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i just order my pump today. and if this does not work we know its the turbos.
i feel like im the guy that has it the worst with this kit. well maybe louis LOL but he gets paid for his work on these things LOL
i feel like im the guy that has it the worst with this kit. well maybe louis LOL but he gets paid for his work on these things LOL
06-05-2009, 09:21 PM
#15
I think I had it the worst LOL. I picked the car up from Vengeance and drove 4 1/2 hours back to south GA from ATL. It then rained for 5 days so I couldn't drive it. On the 1st sunny day I took it out and drove for less than 1hour and a turbo took a ****!! I waited a year and a half to install it because I was deployed and this is what I get!! Needless to say, I've been saving since that day for some of LGs turbos
Less than 1 day and 500 miles with my $7000+ investment. And to top it of Peter won't email me back.
Less than 1 day and 500 miles with my $7000+ investment. And to top it of Peter won't email me back.
06-05-2009, 09:42 PM
#17
Nightmare are you sure turbo is dead or what were symptoms. Was it grinding into compressor or was it putting out oil ? Putting out oil might be other things. I have posted many times on this. Blown turbos usually start grinding into compressor.
So you may want to try things like the scavenger pump idea before you replace them. I still plan to replace mine and go up to LG ones most likely.
But if can make the aps ones last thru the season thats fine too. I have ebay backup centers to use if have to.
So far my aps are doing fine. There are many on here that did seem to have good luck with there..Hugger has lots of miles on his, kelliente seemed to have luck, few other guys. But some have had problems but again have to wonder what exactly was their problem.
Possilbe things that make the turbos let oil thru the seals..excessive crankcase pressure, inlets sucking shut, blocked oil return line, overfilling crankcase. Possibly excessive oil pressure ? Not taking out the shipping plug on the turbo oil returns. Not getting the oil out of the turbos fast enough,possibly having that aps check valve in backwards and of course blown piston or pistons ,the stock ringlands are fragile things. I have souvenir from buddies procharged car at like 8psi.
On my talons thought had blown turbos or engine and it was crankcase ventilation problems. Twice. Once was pcv and once was problem in catch can used a cheap gas filter on some board advice as catch can and it clogged up. Fixed the venting problem and no more oil. Took a bit to clean it out of there though.
So be curious to see if scavenger pump clears up some aps dud turbo problems. Should be simple to hook up. Run lines from both turbos into ypipe and scavenger inlet then out to one oil pan inlet and block off the other one. Might try it ghetto first with just rubber lines and then go to stainless and nice an after see how it works out. Tomz28 sounds like he should have his in and working pretty quick. I mgiht take a bit longer as presently not seeing any oil problems.
So you may want to try things like the scavenger pump idea before you replace them. I still plan to replace mine and go up to LG ones most likely.
But if can make the aps ones last thru the season thats fine too. I have ebay backup centers to use if have to.
So far my aps are doing fine. There are many on here that did seem to have good luck with there..Hugger has lots of miles on his, kelliente seemed to have luck, few other guys. But some have had problems but again have to wonder what exactly was their problem.
Possilbe things that make the turbos let oil thru the seals..excessive crankcase pressure, inlets sucking shut, blocked oil return line, overfilling crankcase. Possibly excessive oil pressure ? Not taking out the shipping plug on the turbo oil returns. Not getting the oil out of the turbos fast enough,possibly having that aps check valve in backwards and of course blown piston or pistons ,the stock ringlands are fragile things. I have souvenir from buddies procharged car at like 8psi.
On my talons thought had blown turbos or engine and it was crankcase ventilation problems. Twice. Once was pcv and once was problem in catch can used a cheap gas filter on some board advice as catch can and it clogged up. Fixed the venting problem and no more oil. Took a bit to clean it out of there though.
So be curious to see if scavenger pump clears up some aps dud turbo problems. Should be simple to hook up. Run lines from both turbos into ypipe and scavenger inlet then out to one oil pan inlet and block off the other one. Might try it ghetto first with just rubber lines and then go to stainless and nice an after see how it works out. Tomz28 sounds like he should have his in and working pretty quick. I mgiht take a bit longer as presently not seeing any oil problems.
06-05-2009, 09:50 PM
#18
Turbos normally don't boost when you have cracking in things like internal wastegate area ,seen big cracks in my old old talon exhaust housings.
Had some turbos rubbing the compressor housings from excessive shaft play none had broken wheels. That is usually from stuff going thru them.
i have had bad screeching on the one that had the big shaft play and was hitting the compressor housing.
I have had oil twice that as said turned out to be simple cranckase pressure problem. In my talons not my 99 TA. I have maybe 500 to 700 miles on my aps setup now. Now real problems with oil so far . I am getting the scavenger pump as preventive medicine.
But do feel good that we have options from LG and stuff to replace the turbos . Nice to have options.
I have talked to Peter a few times about my personal dud turbo.It is internally cracked and lets coolant into the oil. Massively . I have been running oil cooling only no water cooling on both my turbos since that happened which was when first fired up my new engine and the kit. Luckly that caught that it would have toasted the new engine. Hopefully its fine as caught problem in first couple minutes of start up and still had to change out oil like 4 times in a few days to get it clean again. Not even sure which turbo is the dud.
06-05-2009, 10:42 PM
#19
Normally when they fail you have no boost and lots of screeching .
Here is some info from one of the biggest turbo shops Forced Performance.
"My tubo is smoking and it's brand new. The shaft has normal play in it so is one of my seals blown?
A. The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals.
If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem without even taking the turbo back off the car.
The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end. If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new seal rings.
The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing.
The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high volume of crankcase vent flow. "
"
Here is some info from one of the biggest turbo shops Forced Performance.
"My tubo is smoking and it's brand new. The shaft has normal play in it so is one of my seals blown?
A. The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals.
If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem without even taking the turbo back off the car.
The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end. If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new seal rings.
The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing.
The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high volume of crankcase vent flow. "
"