General LSX Automobile Discussion - What's so great about LSX engines?

I hope this is in the right section, seems appropriate. Just thought I'd throw this question out there since I am sort of wondering myself about this. I mean I don't know how many times I've heard of LS1s being "touched by the hand of God" etc etc. Buy why? What makes these engines so great in reality? I know they make good torque and hp and that they are all aluminum and have a wealth of aftermarket support but is that it? I here a lot of great things about them and I love mine, but I'm not a mechanic. From a different point of view (like from a tech standpoint or racers standpoint) what makes these engines any better than an LT1 (if it is in fact 'better') or sbc? They have no forged internals, so they can't take what the 03/04 Cobra powerplants can take or anything like that. Can they be built cheaply or something? Is that the appeal? Just really would like to hear from everyone on this.

they can be built cheap, they are more reliable than older sbc/lt1 (completely redesigned), and most importantly the heads flow really well for stock heads compared to other small blocks.

head flow is the key to power, but also dont dismiss and engine without forged internalls as not being able to take power, the cranks in these motors are very strong for a cast unit. rods are better then any previous chevy cast rods also....

Im not sure its one thing. Its a combination of all thing above. They have that 1hp per cubic inch magic number. The heads flow very well, 4 bolt main bottom end, ability to make huge hp on stock internals, light weight, and takes a bad ass beating and still runs like a raped ape. In short i guess its like a sbc in the sense it runs forever but new designs allow it to be better and stroniger than before.

they have 6 bolt mains not 4....

Good info so far guys keep it coming. How much power can be made in these gen IIIs without going forged? How about the genIV types? Thanks again guys. Tired of being asked about what engine I'm running and not being able to go to bat for us in the "what's so great about it dept."

about 550 without being forged with a good tune, the crank is good for about 1000 w/o being forged.

Wow! That I did not know.

they have 6 bolt mains not 4....

Yeah and didn't the LT1s have 2bolts?

The crank in these cars is little short of godly as far as stock equipment goes. And how many other cars out there can you squeeze well over 350rwhp out of naturally aspirated with only basic bolt-ons? Bolt-ons seem to react better with these engines than the vast majority of cars out there. There's also it's ability to take on copious amounts of nitrous without batting an eye. The fact that it's a pushrod engine makes it more reliable, easier to work on, and makes aftermarket support for heads and cams cheap, easy, and incredibly effective.
All in all, it may not be able to take the amounts of boost that an 03-04 Cobra can, but it makes way more power with a comparable safe amount boost when going forced induction. And for what an 03-04 Cobra costs, you can very easily build a bulletproof forged LS1 car pushing out massive amounts of boost.

Two words that sum up why an LS Engine is so great

Volumetric Efficiency

OP where abouts are you from? Ontario here as well.

I hope this is in the right section, seems appropriate. Just thought I'd throw this question out there since I am sort of wondering myself about this. I mean I don't know how many times I've heard of LS1s being "touched by the hand of God" etc etc. Buy why? What makes these engines so great in reality? I know they make good torque and hp and that they are all aluminum and have a wealth of aftermarket support but is that it? I here a lot of great things about them and I love mine, but I'm not a mechanic. From a different point of view (like from a tech standpoint or racers standpoint) what makes these engines any better than an LT1 (if it is in fact 'better') or sbc?

Its lighter, physically smaller, and flows way better.

They have no forged internals, so they can't take what the 03/04 Cobra powerplants can take or anything like that. Can they be built cheaply or something? Is that the appeal? Just really would like to hear from everyone on this.
The 4V mod motors are 200-300lbs heavier than the LSx's and are the size of a small barn.
To me the appeal is the power to weight (390lbs, 350hp/375ft.lbs) and physical size. Physically the LS1 is smaller than most V6s, and most other V8s. And this is a reason you see so many small cars with LSx's, most other engines wont even fit.
Attached you can see the difference between a Porsche flat 6 and an LS1, an LS1 and a rotory, an LS1 and a Porsche I4, and an LS1 and a RB26.

OP where abouts are you from? Ontario here as well.

North Bay, ON here. How about yourself? I just picked up this car last year in T.O.

Its lighter, physically smaller, and flows way better.

The 4V mod motors are 200-300lbs heavier than the LSx's and are the size of a small barn.
To me the appeal is the power to weight (390lbs, 350hp/375ft.lbs) and physical size. Physically the LS1 is smaller than most V6s, and most other V8s. And this is a reason you see so many small cars with LSx's, most other engines wont even fit.
Attached you can see the difference between a Porsche flat 6 and an LS1, an LS1 and a rotory, an LS1 and a Porsche I4, and an LS1 and a RB26.

So basically not only is the LS1 producing 1hp/ci but it's also physically smaller than many other engines, including the modular engine? I can definately see the advantage of having such such an engine when you can put them in vehicles otherwise limited by size. Thanks for the info.

Two words that sum up why an LS Engine is so great

Volumetric Efficiency

Gotcha'! Yeah that's one aspect that didn't really cross my mind.

The crank in these cars is little short of godly as far as stock equipment goes. And how many other cars out there can you squeeze well over 350rwhp out of naturally aspirated with only basic bolt-ons? Bolt-ons seem to react better with these engines than the vast majority of cars out there. There's also it's ability to take on copious amounts of nitrous without batting an eye. The fact that it's a pushrod engine makes it more reliable, easier to work on, and makes aftermarket support for heads and cams cheap, easy, and incredibly effective.
All in all, it may not be able to take the amounts of boost that an 03-04 Cobra can, but it makes way more power with a comparable safe amount boost when going forced induction. And for what an 03-04 Cobra costs, you can very easily build a bulletproof forged LS1 car pushing out massive amounts of boost.

Yeah you can't pick up a termi (sorry for the slang) for cheap that's for sure. I've noticed a lot of the bolt on cars that people are driving on here haul ass, even with out wr.

Two words.... Cam and Spray!

Design: You can change a cam in one without yanking the intake , you can swap the oil pump easily , you can change the intake manifold without a huge antifreeze mess and for a dated pushrod design , they sure can be made godawful fast.

its not only the effecient and well designed LS1 that makes these cars so appealing, they are rather light when compared to other cars and GM perfected the art of getting as much power to the wheels as possible. Yes the Cobra is a very good car but a LS fbody can beat a cobra with less rwhp.

Why wont i ever buy another performance type car? Because for 20,000 including car I have a good looking car capable of putting the hurt on cars double even triple the value of my car.

I raced a bolt on 2v GT spraying a 120 shot at the time my car was bolt ons not even headers and the nose of my car was at the drivers door.

These cars are very fast for the price, LS1 is built like a Glock lol.

One more plus.....

GenIII/IV pcm logic. Leaps and bounds in controlling the engine than previous years.

you said it in your post god literally touched the ls blocks with his own hands

Its lighter, physically smaller, and flows way better.

The 4V mod motors are 200-300lbs heavier than the LSx's and are the size of a small barn.
To me the appeal is the power to weight (390lbs, 350hp/375ft.lbs) and physical size. Physically the LS1 is smaller than most V6s, and most other V8s. And this is a reason you see so many small cars with LSx's, most other engines wont even fit.
Attached you can see the difference between a Porsche flat 6 and an LS1, an LS1 and a rotory, an LS1 and a Porsche I4, and an LS1 and a RB26.

:D x1000

:chug:

you said it in your post god literally touched the ls blocks with his own hands

:rotflmao:

i have a few buddies who run 5.0s at the track. and they know its tough to beat LSx motors. but stock for stock, they all admit head flow on an LS will demolish a ford. NA ofcourse.

i have a few buddies who run 5.0s at the track. and they know its tough to beat LSx motors. but stock for stock, they all admit head flow on an LS will demolish a ford. NA ofcourse.

Compared to the modular 2V I agree whole heartedly. But the 03/04 4V heads are some of the best flowing heads manufactured by anybody for a production car. The LS heads are VERY good as well- it's one of the many reasons I made the switch. I love my Mach but it pales in comparison to my Z28 performance wise in just about every category.

The Ford 2V heads are HORRIBLE though.

The PI heads on the 99+ 4.6Ls are very good flowing heads to say the least. I would argue that as far as stock equipment they are a little bit better than our heads.
But one of my main arguments as to why the LS1 is better than the 4.6 is pure simplicity. Ford has used every DOHC/3 valve/4 valve/PI head combination in the book for the 4.6 and the simple fact is that our 2 valve single cam pushrod NA engine absolutely destroys any NA 4.6 that comes our way. Cam/head swaps for the 99+ Mustang are pretty spendy compared to our cars and don't yield as good of results. There's that timeless classic...

Must Use Supercharger/Turbo Against N/A GM

Z28usmc-What about the 3v configuration? How do they stack up? Or is that what is in your Mach? I know up untill 05 the GT was 2v and than it became 3v. But I thought the Mach1 was possibly a 4v. Is it a different heads setup than what is on the Cobras of 03/04?

The PI heads on the 99+ 4.6Ls are very good flowing heads to say the least. I would argue that as far as stock equipment they are a little bit better than our heads.
But one of my main arguments as to why the LS1 is better than the 4.6 is pure simplicity. Ford has used every DOHC/3 valve/4 valve/PI head combination in the book for the 4.6 and the simple fact is that our 2 valve single cam pushrod NA engine absolutely destroys any NA 4.6 that comes our way. Cam/head swaps for the 99+ Mustang are pretty spendy compared to our cars and don't yield as good of results. There's that timeless classic...

Must Use Supercharger/Turbo Against N/A GM

Yeah I guess that's why I never see a lot cammed 4.6s. Or maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. I mean I don't read about them all that much and have no real personal experience with them whatsoever.

Its lightweight, its efficient, it handles good amounts of power, and can be modded to make ungodly power.

Ive seen a few cars making well over 600rwhp on the stock shortblock(other than the cam ofcourse). My car will be close to 700rwhp on nitrous and it uses a stock crank.

Wow that sounds like a beast! What does your 2001 run in the 1/4 if you don't mind me askin'?

just look in the new testament...lol

My car will be close to 700rwhp on nitrous and it uses a stock crank.

Well that is simply due to the fact that the first thing baby Jesus designed was the LS1's crank. Good to around 1000rwhp. He drew up the plans for it while he was still in the womb.

Z28usmc-What about the 3v configuration? How do they stack up? Or is that what is in your Mach? I know up untill 05 the GT was 2v and than it became 3v. But I thought the Mach1 was possibly a 4v. Is it a different heads setup than what is on the Cobras of 03/04?

My Mach is a 4v/32v configuration. The 2v's were in the Stang GT's up until the new S197 body style in 05. The 03/04 Cobras and 03/04 Mach1's share the same exact heads. Now you would think that mod for mod the 4v #'s would be better than 3v #'s. But with few exceptions the S197's seem to be VERY mod friendly. The big drawbacks are the headers (don't all stock headers suck?) and the exhaust valve. A lot of it I think has to do with the VVT.....which I think either comp or Crane came out with a VVT cam for. Either way it seems that you take a standard supercharger upgrade on the 4V vs the 3V and the 3V's seem to make about 20 more RWHP and RTRQ.

Of course the S197 has the same problem the new Challenger/Charger and the new Camaro have- they are PIG heavy. That's why you see such poor numbers @ the track for so many GT drivers- (besides needing the ever so difficult to find "driver mod") is the wt. There have been stock Mach1's and 99/01 Cobras in the low 13's. with DR's high 12's. With absolutely perfect conditions you might see a 13.2 out of a bone stock S197 GT- and it would have to have the 3.73 gear option.

Compared to the modular 2V I agree whole heartedly. But the 03/04 4V heads are some of the best flowing heads manufactured by anybody for a production car. The LS heads are VERY good as well- it's one of the many reasons I made the switch. I love my Mach but it pales in comparison to my Z28 performance wise in just about every category.

The Ford 2V heads are HORRIBLE though.

oh, i dont know about the newer sohc and dohc engines, i just know that with the 5.0s that was their story.

Yeah and didn't the LT1s have 2bolts?

The F body cars with the LT1 had 2 bolt mains but the vettes with the LT1s had 4 bolt. The LT4 grand sports had 4 bolts.

What is the advantage of 6 bolt over 4 in the real world?

oh, i dont know about the newer sohc and dohc engines, i just know that with the 5.0s that was their story.

I miss the ole foxbodies with their 5.0's......the engine was decent but supporting aftermarket is insane. Plus that's when Stangs used to be lightwright- kesera I guess.

The modular engine has it's advantages in it's more efficient and economic from a fuel economy perspective- but the first few years were bad from a power perspective. I can never figure out why Ford never tried to make more power? Stangs have almost always given up power to bowties...yet another reason I made the switch. LOL

I miss the ole foxbodies with their 5.0's......the engine was decent but supporting aftermarket is insane. Plus that's when Stangs used to be lightwright- kesera I guess.

The modular engine has it's advantages in it's more efficient and economic from a fuel economy perspective- but the first few years were bad from a power perspective. I can never figure out why Ford never tried to make more power? Stangs have almost always given up power to bowties...yet another reason I made the switch. LOL

what the fuck are you talking about? the mod motors are TERRIBLE with fuel economy. my sister has a 01 GT that she drives like a grandma and only gets 15 city, 18 highway. I drive the piss out of my car and get 18 city, 25 highway.

what the fuck are you talking about? the mod motors are TERRIBLE with fuel economy. my sister has a 01 GT that she drives like a grandma and only gets 15 city, 18 highway. I drive the piss out of my car and get 18 city, 25 highway.

Before I put my 4.10's in I got 31 highway in my Mach1....I got high teens in my Cobra and my 86 SVO was high 20's. Guess I just have good luck.

My z28 on the other hand is mid teens at best- but I didn't get her for fuel economy. LOL

I've heard of LS1s being "touched by the hand of God" etc etc. Buy why? What makes these engines so great in reality?

connecting rods are good to 500hp FROM THE FACTORY, stock heads were considered to be among the best heads FROM A FACTORY in the automotive industry. for some reason, if you stick a cam in it and port the heads, these engines open up a ton. i believe the stock crank is good for up to 500hp or so also. they are fairly easy to build, affordable, the aftermarket is excellent for them, and the community of ls1 guys is THE best.

I also have a 72 Firebird with a Pontiac 400, and most of the Pontiac community can't stand newbie questions. Not only will the ls1 community stand it, they don't treat you like you're an idiot if they know that you really want to learn, and they are willing to help you out because they understand what it's like to be a beginner. Just a really great community.

and lastly, the ls platform is incredibly versatile. want a v8 with decent power and decent gas mileage? done. want a twin turbo setup? done. want a supercharger? done. want a carbureted version? done. want to put a th400 behind your ls1? ok no problem. let's not forget the LS9 in the ZR1 is RIDICULOUS with power, and that insanity is still part of the LS family.

these are just my reasons, but there are so much more.

Thanks everyone for their input and information. Great information here and I really appreciate it. I knew I couldn't go wrong by asking that specific question on this site. Great stuff guys :)

Before I put my 4.10's in I got 31 highway in my Mach1....I got high teens in my Cobra and my 86 SVO was high 20's. Guess I just have good luck.

My z28 on the other hand is mid teens at best- but I didn't get her for fuel economy. LOL

and before i put my 4.10s in I also got 31 highway. :punch:

and before i put my 4.10s in I also got 31 highway. :punch:

Touche' however if 4.10's in my Z28or my Mach were my only mod I'd be worried......trust me- their not. - I am down to mid 20's if I drive under 70 in the Mach now though.

Anywho- I'm not trying to turn this into yet another Stang VS LSX thread. Both have their places and both have their strongpoints and drawbacks. I've had pretty extensive ownership of both (mostly Ford) so when I see something that isn't quite right I try to set the record straight. As for the fuel economy thing FORD was the ones who said they went to the modular design in part because they could use small cubes and make it efficient AND powerful vs the pushrod technology at the time. THEY made the claim- I just restated it. That being said it has been MY experience with the mod motors I've had that they are VERY efficient for being a V8 but definitely not all that powerful with the exception of my 03 Cobra.

Go look and see the difference from the Lt1 to the Ls1. It's as if the engineer came from the future because the design was so radical. Cathedral Ports is all I have to say.

I think these engine are very good because you can make them vary reliable in any kind of raceing/street driving road racing i believe there was a ls powered corvette that won the 24hrs of lemans, drag racing n/a in the 8s,9s,10s, fi in the 8s,7s and even the 6s, and they are very relable and efficent on the street to as you can see by the number of high hp street cars so in my opinion they are one of the best all around engines out there.

Oh yea i think the mod motors from ford are great but n/a to n/a they seem to have a hard time with ls engines case in point my buddy has an 07 gt full bolts ons cammed tuned auto and i beat him by about 2 cars from a stop and about a car and half from a 50mph roll in my 02 full bolt on 3000 stalled a4 t/a his car made around 330rwhp i believe and my car made 332rwhp and his had cams. But its still a nice car and i will say i absoulty love the way any of those cars sound!!

i think someone should bring back the thread about what LS stood for in the LS1

Cathedral Ports is all I have to say.
this confuses me. what about the L92/Ls3 heads? im a believer after havin my L76 apart and seeing those huge rectangle intake ports... the numbers dont lie either