Finally - H/C car passes NY emmissions test!!!
11-11-2003, 12:43 PM
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Finally - H/C car passes NY emmissions test!!! OK, so I failed NY emmissions testing a few weeks back as a result of high hydrocarbon levels (73 Vs. 60 permitted PPM). NY recently changed the test to make it diffucult to pass with any mods....
My car has:
All bolt-ons
LT headers with cats
LS6 ported heads w/ 11.2 to 1 compression
220/220, 564/564, 112 cam
Here is what I did to pass the test:
1. I had LTRIMS of +12 so I tuned the car with LS1Edit to bring them to slightly negiative values (-2, -3)
2. Added tripple doses of injector cleaner for five tanks of 93 octane gas - car was driven about 2K miles....
3. Changed the oil and added one quart of gear oil to prevent PVC bleed-through to the intake manifold (car has ls6 valley cover and catch can)
4. Cleaned out the PVC oil catch can
5. added 12 small bottles of dry gas (methonal) to a 1/4 tank of 93 octane with no injector cleaner in the tank
6. checked plugs for fouling (none)
*********************
I plan to add a few onces of oil to the gas tank now to counter-act the high methonal levels. I will also change the engine oil again to synthetic....
My car has:
All bolt-ons
LT headers with cats
LS6 ported heads w/ 11.2 to 1 compression
220/220, 564/564, 112 cam
Here is what I did to pass the test:
1. I had LTRIMS of +12 so I tuned the car with LS1Edit to bring them to slightly negiative values (-2, -3)
2. Added tripple doses of injector cleaner for five tanks of 93 octane gas - car was driven about 2K miles....
3. Changed the oil and added one quart of gear oil to prevent PVC bleed-through to the intake manifold (car has ls6 valley cover and catch can)
4. Cleaned out the PVC oil catch can
5. added 12 small bottles of dry gas (methonal) to a 1/4 tank of 93 octane with no injector cleaner in the tank
6. checked plugs for fouling (none)
*********************
I plan to add a few onces of oil to the gas tank now to counter-act the high methonal levels. I will also change the engine oil again to synthetic....
, i'll keep some of those in mind when i go for the cali **** smog test 
.
11-11-2003, 01:15 PM
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...my wife took the car for the test; they put it on a lift and ran the motor with the wheels spinning but no load....
a sniffer thing was inserted into the exhaust...
this test is really tuff.... I will hate to try again next year ...hope they dont make the test harder again....seems unfair for older cars to change the test like that....
a sniffer thing was inserted into the exhaust...
this test is really tuff.... I will hate to try again next year ...hope they dont make the test harder again....seems unfair for older cars to change the test like that....
11-11-2003, 01:26 PM
#4
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
...my wife took the car for the test; they put it on a lift and ran the motor with the wheels spinning but no load....
a sniffer thing was inserted into the exhaust...
this test is really tuff.... I will hate to try again next year ...hope they dont make the test harder again....seems unfair for older cars to change the test like that....
a sniffer thing was inserted into the exhaust...
this test is really tuff.... I will hate to try again next year ...hope they dont make the test harder again....seems unfair for older cars to change the test like that....
as if they weren strict enough. do you guys have a visual in NY?do you know what specifically caused your car to fail the first time? your cam aint to drastic and i've never heard of heads being to tough on emissions. was it mostly tuning then?
11-11-2003, 01:40 PM
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...I can't say for sure what casued it to fail the first time...
The highly milled heads give 11.2 CR so I assume that contributes to high hydrocarbons....
...the FLP headers place the cats much further back so they don't get as hot as stock cats....
...I don;t think the cam contributed much to the failure... it is a mild street cam....
one thing i did on the first test was to add carb cleaner to the gas....not sure of this hurt or not, however....
.....I beleive the 12 cans of dry gas (methonal) to the 1/4 tank of 93 octane gas did help....the LS1Edit tune cut down on the mildly rich condition (+12LTRIMS)....
...all the other smog stuff ....pvc, air pump, header check valves, etc were connected and working for both tests....
Out of the three NY sniffer measures for the emissions test ...all but hydrocarbons were VERY VERY low....the testor made mention of the very low readings during the first test...
The highly milled heads give 11.2 CR so I assume that contributes to high hydrocarbons....
...the FLP headers place the cats much further back so they don't get as hot as stock cats....
...I don;t think the cam contributed much to the failure... it is a mild street cam....
one thing i did on the first test was to add carb cleaner to the gas....not sure of this hurt or not, however....
.....I beleive the 12 cans of dry gas (methonal) to the 1/4 tank of 93 octane gas did help....the LS1Edit tune cut down on the mildly rich condition (+12LTRIMS)....
...all the other smog stuff ....pvc, air pump, header check valves, etc were connected and working for both tests....
Out of the three NY sniffer measures for the emissions test ...all but hydrocarbons were VERY VERY low....the testor made mention of the very low readings during the first test...
11-11-2003, 02:29 PM
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I don't beleive there are any OBD11 tests currently in NY.
On the first test the testor asked me why I had a check engine light on....
....the light was caused by a bad rear O2 similator which has no impact on the emissions. Apparently, the rear 02s are there only to tell the OBDii system if the cats are working. I turned the diagnoistic tests for the rear O2s off with Edit for the second test.
...my friend indicates it is likely NY will kill the sniffer test next year and go to an OBD11 test. He says this will be easier to beat with Edit since you can turn off a bunch of diagnastics and the Big Brother's test will not detect your moves....
On the first test the testor asked me why I had a check engine light on....
....the light was caused by a bad rear O2 similator which has no impact on the emissions. Apparently, the rear 02s are there only to tell the OBDii system if the cats are working. I turned the diagnoistic tests for the rear O2s off with Edit for the second test.
...my friend indicates it is likely NY will kill the sniffer test next year and go to an OBD11 test. He says this will be easier to beat with Edit since you can turn off a bunch of diagnastics and the Big Brother's test will not detect your moves....
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11-11-2003, 02:32 PM
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Yeh; we have a visual check in NY. The testor only confirmed that the car had cats; he liked the nice shinny LT headers and asked if I installed them....
11-12-2003, 08:42 AM
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Stats:
Successful test:
HC = .55, allowed = .60
C0 = 1.47, allowed = 10.0
NOX = .15, allowed = 1.50
Failed test:
HC = 70
C0 = 1.90
NOX = .28
*******************
I can't believe how clean I am in the CO and NOX!
Successful test:
HC = .55, allowed = .60
C0 = 1.47, allowed = 10.0
NOX = .15, allowed = 1.50
Failed test:
HC = 70
C0 = 1.90
NOX = .28
*******************
I can't believe how clean I am in the CO and NOX!
11-12-2003, 10:12 AM
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comments on emission test I tested in Tarrytown (NY) in June and was also very close to the HC limit (.57),
just barely passed. My heads are ported but the compression is close to stock.
I only have shorty headers (JBA) and RT cats in he stock location. My cam is even milder - 212/218 .521/.527 115LSA with 3deg advance. I do have custom tuning from Ed Wright. My ltrims etc. probably were around +10% or so but I am not completely sure. This tight situation makes me nervous and I would like to
figure out a way to increase margins before next June...
Gert
just barely passed. My heads are ported but the compression is close to stock.
I only have shorty headers (JBA) and RT cats in he stock location. My cam is even milder - 212/218 .521/.527 115LSA with 3deg advance. I do have custom tuning from Ed Wright. My ltrims etc. probably were around +10% or so but I am not completely sure. This tight situation makes me nervous and I would like to
figure out a way to increase margins before next June...
Gert
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Stats:
Successful test:
HC = .55, allowed = .60
C0 = 1.47, allowed = 10.0
NOX = .15, allowed = 1.50
Failed test:
HC = 70
C0 = 1.90
NOX = .28
*******************
I can't believe how clean I am in the CO and NOX!
Successful test:
HC = .55, allowed = .60
C0 = 1.47, allowed = 10.0
NOX = .15, allowed = 1.50
Failed test:
HC = 70
C0 = 1.90
NOX = .28
*******************
I can't believe how clean I am in the CO and NOX!
11-12-2003, 11:02 AM
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SSNB:
That is interesting information; I assume you did not run any methonal (dry gas) during your last test.
I assumed my LT headers with the cats placed back in the exhaust was the major culpret but now I assume it is the high compression heads that caused most of the issues.....
...if your Ltrims are +10 that is rich - you may want to log it again and reduce the fuel air ratio more...
My friend believes NY will go to a OBD11 test soon. This is easier to pass since it only checks for codes in the PCM. If you delete the diagnostics the OBD11 test cannot detect this; therefore, you should be able to pass without much diffuculty....
...right now, I'm a tad spooked about doing any more mods.....consequently, this blows...
That is interesting information; I assume you did not run any methonal (dry gas) during your last test.
I assumed my LT headers with the cats placed back in the exhaust was the major culpret but now I assume it is the high compression heads that caused most of the issues.....
...if your Ltrims are +10 that is rich - you may want to log it again and reduce the fuel air ratio more...
My friend believes NY will go to a OBD11 test soon. This is easier to pass since it only checks for codes in the PCM. If you delete the diagnostics the OBD11 test cannot detect this; therefore, you should be able to pass without much diffuculty....
...right now, I'm a tad spooked about doing any more mods.....consequently, this blows...
11-12-2003, 04:32 PM
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These are all great notes for us Long Island fellas, I have basically the same setup as you so I'll have to do all this stuff next year some time. Again, thanks for the info!!!
11-13-2003, 07:01 AM
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Robert,
I did not have any methanol mixed in the fuel. Also< I recall that +10% ltrims
means that the car is running lean and the fuel system is adding fuel to get to the right A/F ratio. My idle speed is set to around 850 rpm and my fans come on
at 195 F (low speed) and 197 F (high speed).
Gert
I did not have any methanol mixed in the fuel. Also< I recall that +10% ltrims
means that the car is running lean and the fuel system is adding fuel to get to the right A/F ratio. My idle speed is set to around 850 rpm and my fans come on
at 195 F (low speed) and 197 F (high speed).
Gert
Originally Posted by 2000SSNB
I tested in Tarrytown (NY) in June and was also very close to the HC limit (.57),
just barely passed. My heads are ported but the compression is close to stock.
I only have shorty headers (JBA) and RT cats in he stock location. My cam is even milder - 212/218 .521/.527 115LSA with 3deg advance. I do have custom tuning from Ed Wright. My ltrims etc. probably were around +10% or so but I am not completely sure. This tight situation makes me nervous and I would like to
figure out a way to increase margins before next June...
Gert
just barely passed. My heads are ported but the compression is close to stock.
I only have shorty headers (JBA) and RT cats in he stock location. My cam is even milder - 212/218 .521/.527 115LSA with 3deg advance. I do have custom tuning from Ed Wright. My ltrims etc. probably were around +10% or so but I am not completely sure. This tight situation makes me nervous and I would like to
figure out a way to increase margins before next June...
Gert
11-13-2003, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by robertbartsch
SSNB:
That is interesting information; I assume you did not run any methonal (dry gas) during your last test.
I assumed my LT headers with the cats placed back in the exhaust was the major culpret but now I assume it is the high compression heads that caused most of the issues.....
...if your Ltrims are +10 that is rich - you may want to log it again and reduce the fuel air ratio more...
My friend believes NY will go to a OBD11 test soon. This is easier to pass since it only checks for codes in the PCM. If you delete the diagnostics the OBD11 test cannot detect this; therefore, you should be able to pass without much diffuculty....
...right now, I'm a tad spooked about doing any more mods.....consequently, this blows...
That is interesting information; I assume you did not run any methonal (dry gas) during your last test.
I assumed my LT headers with the cats placed back in the exhaust was the major culpret but now I assume it is the high compression heads that caused most of the issues.....
...if your Ltrims are +10 that is rich - you may want to log it again and reduce the fuel air ratio more...
My friend believes NY will go to a OBD11 test soon. This is easier to pass since it only checks for codes in the PCM. If you delete the diagnostics the OBD11 test cannot detect this; therefore, you should be able to pass without much diffuculty....
...right now, I'm a tad spooked about doing any more mods.....consequently, this blows...
Cats being far back are only an issue on warm up emmissions.
I think by tuning it lean, and adding methanol (same as oxygenated fuel) you nailed the problem.
We have IM240 dyno tests, ODB2 checks and visual in Colorado, they look under your hood, check for cats and put your car on the dyno, hook up to the ALDL, and drive a OBD2 cycle. All tests are run by the PCM during the IM240 cycle. If you have a problem they will find it.
That being said, Colorado tests allow alot more slop on the tailpipe emmissions.
11-13-2003, 07:59 AM
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Yeh the +10 LTRIM is lean but the PCM over-compensates and causes the car to run rich...according to what i have read, +10 is not too bad but it will cause the emmissions to be poor...
Owe yeh, I forgot to mention I also raised the idle speed by 10% (910RPM) using LS1Edit...
I left my fans at the stock setting but next year I will probably raise them 15% or so. ....this so the engine/exhaust runs hotter and the cats perform better....I may also take some timing out since higher compression cars need less timing anyway....
The stock timing settings do not result in knock so I'm OK for now...
...all this for the smog police is really a drag.... i was considering a stroker but this is putting a damper on future high-pro projects...
Owe yeh, I forgot to mention I also raised the idle speed by 10% (910RPM) using LS1Edit...
I left my fans at the stock setting but next year I will probably raise them 15% or so. ....this so the engine/exhaust runs hotter and the cats perform better....I may also take some timing out since higher compression cars need less timing anyway....
The stock timing settings do not result in knock so I'm OK for now...
...all this for the smog police is really a drag.... i was considering a stroker but this is putting a damper on future high-pro projects...
11-13-2003, 03:54 PM
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I'm basically pissed that the NY test was made more diffucult ...I can see this for newer cars but it seems unfair to change the test for older cars...
Heritic:
So from my mods why do you think the car produces high hydrocarbons....?
If it is not the cats placed back in the exhasut and the high compression heads that only produce more NOX, then what could cause this? The cam, perhaps???
Do you have any idea how much hydrocarbons a stock LS1 would produce.... ??
Question: If I do a 383 stroker, will it be impossible to get below a 60PPM hydrocarbon emissions?
If I am producing 55PPM of hydrocarbons now, will wear and tear in the future make it more diffucult to achieve the required test results next year?
...smog police blow...!
Heritic:
So from my mods why do you think the car produces high hydrocarbons....?
If it is not the cats placed back in the exhasut and the high compression heads that only produce more NOX, then what could cause this? The cam, perhaps???
Do you have any idea how much hydrocarbons a stock LS1 would produce.... ??
Question: If I do a 383 stroker, will it be impossible to get below a 60PPM hydrocarbon emissions?
If I am producing 55PPM of hydrocarbons now, will wear and tear in the future make it more diffucult to achieve the required test results next year?
...smog police blow...!
