Gen 5 Camaro Internal Engine Tech - Why is the HP rated differently M6 vs. Auto?

When looking at the specifications on chevy's site, they rate the new Camaro 2010 model as 426hp (with Manual 6-speed).

Then there is a different engine selection that goes along with the Auto 6-speed, that rates it at 420hp.

Chevy doesnt make this change in HP related to thier vettes.

Why the diff with the Camaro?

Different transmissions, so different HP rating.

It's not because of the transmission, the A6 car has a different version of the LS3 called the L99 that comes with cylinder deactivation. Due to this, the engine is slightly detuned and is actually rated at 400 hp. They did this mainly to improve fuel economy and avoid the gas guzzler tax.

Different transmissions, so different HP rating.

Then why no differance in HP rating with our 3rd gen f-bodies, ford mustangs and the corvettes?


They did this mainly to improve fuel economy and avoid the gas guzzler tax.

That makes a lot more sense than whytrys reply.

Thanks, I got it now.

Then why no differance in HP rating with our 3rd gen f-bodies, ford mustangs and the corvettes?

Simple. The LS1 got better gas mileage so it wasn't a problem with gas guzzler tax.

Simple. The LS1 got better gas mileage so it wasn't a problem with gas guzzler tax.


This is false. What was said earlier about the AFM and detune for better efficiency is true.

but the Ls1 did get better mileage, hell my stock Lt1 got better milage than the new camaro

Simple. The LS1 got better gas mileage so it wasn't a problem with gas guzzler tax.

:bang: Since when did the 3rd gen come with an LS1? :bang:

but the Ls1 did get better mileage, hell my stock Lt1 got better milage than the new camaro

Not true, they change the EPA rating system so using the current rating method the new camaro has better fuel mileage. Only the LS1 M6 gets slighty better EPA rated mileage than the new Camaro and it is rated using premium while the new Camaro is rated on regular.

Simple. The LS1 got better gas mileage so it wasn't a problem with gas guzzler tax.
There was no gas guzzler tax when the LS1 F-body's were around. Gas was never more than $2/gal at that point. In 2001, gas was less than $1/gal in some states. Transmissions only affect RWHP, not BHP. The auto has a different motor than the manual.

There was no gas guzzler tax when the LS1 F-body's were around. Gas was never more than $2/gal at that point. In 2001, gas was less than $1/gal in some states. Transmissions only affect RWHP, not BHP. The auto has a different motor than the manual.

Are you serious? It would be nice if people would at least do a search before firing off stuff like tis.


http://suvs.about.com/od/fueleconomy/a/jf_gasguzzler.htm
The Gas Guzzler Tax is a Federal excise tax applied to the domestic sale of new vehicles that don't meet certain fuel economy standards. It was enacted as part of the Energy Tax Act of 1978, reaching current levels by 1988. On its surface, the Tax is simple. Behind that simplicity, though, lies a maze of formulas and numbers, some of which are of particular interest to SUV buyers.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#guzzler
The Energy Tax Act of 1978 established a Gas Guzzler Tax on the sale of new model year vehicles whose fuel economy fails to meet certain statutory levels. The gas guzzler tax applies only to cars (not trucks) and is collected by the IRS.

good post! Too bad SUVs aren't part of the tax....

There was no gas guzzler tax when the LS1 F-body's were around. Gas was never more than $2/gal at that point. In 2001, gas was less than $1/gal in some states. Transmissions only affect RWHP, not BHP. The auto has a different motor than the manual.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/jan-june01/gas_prices.html
In 2001, gas average $1.70 a gallon nationally.

You make many misstatements,
and there was a gas guzzler tax then.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/info.shtml
The Energy Tax Act of 1978 established a Gas Guzzler Tax on the sale of new model year vehicles whose fuel economy fails to meet certain statutory levels. The gas guzzler tax applies only to cars (not trucks) and is collected by the IRS.

So basically, almost everything you said was wrong.

Are you serious? It would be nice if people would at least do a search before firing off stuff like tis.


You are right in that it has been around since '78 but the change in the EPA mileage rating in '08, which lowered the rating for all cars, has brought cars closer to the GG threshold. For example, an A4 LT1 f-body, which did not get the gg tax, under the new rating system would just fall in to the first level of the gg tax (if I read the calcualtion method correctly).

When looking at the specifications on chevy's site, they rate the new Camaro 2010 model as 426hp (with Manual 6-speed).

Then there is a different engine selection that goes along with the Auto 6-speed, that rates it at 420hp.

Chevy doesnt make this change in HP related to thier vettes.

Why the diff with the Camaro?

Has a lot more to do with the fact that the LS3 in the manual doesn't have the active fuel management that the auto does. Which means a different set of internals, and a different tune.

:bang: Since when did the 3rd gen come with an LS1? :bang:
Thank you

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/jan-june01/gas_prices.html
In 2001, gas average $1.70 a gallon nationally.
I don't want a yearly average. In 2001, after 9/11, gas was less than $1/gal in NJ. I know this because I lived through it. So, this means gas was well under $2/gal as a nation and less than $1/gal at times in some states. This makes me right and you wrong.

You make many misstatements,
and there was a gas guzzler tax then.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/info.shtml
The Energy Tax Act of 1978 established a Gas Guzzler Tax on the sale of new model year vehicles whose fuel economy fails to meet certain statutory levels. The gas guzzler tax applies only to cars (not trucks) and is collected by the IRS.

So basically, almost everything you said was wrong.
LS1 cars were never hit by a gas guzzler tax. I never saw a gas guzzler tax imposed on a vehicle until well after 2000. Perhaps the regulations were changed. The fact is, LS1 cars were rated well over 20mpg combined (I think around 19/29) and they get much better mileage in stock form than any 4,000 pound 5th gen is going to get.

Not true, they change the EPA rating system so using the current rating method the new camaro has better fuel mileage. Only the LS1 M6 gets slighty better EPA rated mileage than the new Camaro and it is rated using premium while the new Camaro is rated on regular.

Actualluy I was reffering to MY LT1, and in that respect my heavily modded LT4/M6 setup can still sqeeze out 26-28 MPG on the highway, and it is faster than the new car!

LS1 cars were never hit by a gas guzzler tax. I never saw a gas guzzler tax imposed on a vehicle until well after 2000. Perhaps the regulations were changed. The fact is, LS1 cars were rated well over 20mpg combined (I think around 19/29) and they get much better mileage in stock form than any 4,000 pound 5th gen is going to get.

Did you even read some of the other post in this tread? The GG regulations have not changed, but what did change in 2008 was the EPA method for determining fuel economy. This new method lowered all the ratings so you can not compare the old ratings to the new ratings. If you go to this site http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm it will give you the rating of any cay back to 1985 using the new method. Using that, you will see that the LS1 and 5th gen are much closer in rating with the A6 5th gen being better than the A4 LS1. Only the M6 LS1 gets slightly better economy than the 5th gen. The 5th gen does it using regular gas too. Also, using that information you can calculate that the A4 LS1 would have been hit with the GG tax under the new fuel economy method. So yet again, you are not correct.

Actualluy I was reffering to MY LT1, and in that respect my heavily modded LT4/M6 setup can still sqeeze out 26-28 MPG on the highway, and it is faster than the new car!

That is not an accurate comparison as you have no idea what you car would get on the EPA test cycle. You can't compare anecdotal evidence to the EPA test cycle.

This thread is full of alot of bad information. OP, as stated, m6 is ls3 a6 is l99 with DOD and VVT. Better low and mid range in the L99.

This thread is full of alot of bad information. OP, as stated, m6 is ls3 a6 is l99 with DOD and VVT. Better low and mid range in the L99.

Yeah it is, however this info has been stated 3 times now.

Yeah it is, however this info has been stated 3 times now.

And "It is just a different transmission it puts out less power" has been stated like 4 times.

And "It is just a different transmission it puts out less power" has been stated like 4 times.

Thank you supernova, i wanted to reach through the comp and bitch slap people for that one.....

They made the auto cars have l99 to get better mileage. Funny thing is alot of the a6 guys I have talked to aren't getting that great of millage. I wound not reccomend buying the a6 camaro ss at this point, It seems to have some bugs that need to be worked out. Some guys that have a6 their cars are turds and have been beat by the v6 car.

And "It is just a different transmission it puts out less power" has been stated like 4 times.

Yeah those are the bad information posts that were talked about.

You know that skip shift we all hate so much? That was one way GM was able to avoid the gas guzzler tax on our LS1 cars. They barely avoided the lowest GG tax. Also, that SUPER long 6th gear and outstanding highway milage doesn't hurt.

[QUOTE=Michael02hawk;11834115]Then why no differance in HP rating with our 3rd gen f-bodies, ford mustangs and the corvettes?QUOTE]


...actually

87-92 fbods 305tpi A4 was rated at around 200..but with the 5sp is was about 230hp


also A4 5.0 mustang from 87-92 were 220hp..compared to 225 with the 5sp

...but there just numbers and dont mean squat lol

but A4 305tpi>5.0 A4

The L99 ( rated at 400hp) in the autos has cylinder deac, a cam phaser, a different camshaft (truck cam i think), and I have been told different exhaust manifolds but they look the same to me.

The LS3 (rated at 422hp or 426hp depending on who you talk to) in the m6 is V8 all the time, no phaser, and has the LS3 (vette) camshaft. It is the same motor that goes into the corvette with a different oil pan, accessories, and exhaust manifolds. Internally they are the same as the vette motor.

Geez, people. Do some research instead of just spouting off your own pet theory as fact. The L99 has less HP and slightly more torque than the LS3. The L99 also has cylinder deactivation and the LS3 does not. They're two different engines with different tunes. In LS1 F-bodies, the engine was the same with auto or stick. Not so with the 5th-Gen.

Off the top of my head the L99 is actually the G8 GXP motor as well, or did it get the LS3?

Off the top of my head the L99 is actually the G8 GXP motor as well, or did it get the LS3?

no, LS3

Are you serious? It would be nice if people would at least do a search before firing off stuff like tis.


http://suvs.about.com/od/fueleconomy/a/jf_gasguzzler.htm


http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#guzzler



You are so right. Ignorance is contagious.