Pilot bearing question....
07-05-2009, 10:01 PM
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Pilot bearing question.... ive got my new motor in the car and just finished going through hell to get the flywheel on(long story) I just realized that i probably dont have a pilot bearing installed already because this motor was built from a shortblock. Is it possible to install the pilot bearing with the flywheel on? is this something i can easily pick up from a local parts store?
07-06-2009, 08:37 AM
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Yes and Yes.
Get a pilot bushing for a '69 SS with the 396/4 speed combo. It'll press in just like a new bearing but won't spit the needles after hard use like the bearing will.
Get a pilot bushing for a '69 SS with the 396/4 speed combo. It'll press in just like a new bearing but won't spit the needles after hard use like the bearing will.
07-06-2009, 12:11 PM
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Yup, if you want to get really fancy there are bearing/race driver sets that have various diameter drivers. You can get a set for cheap at a Harbor Freight or similar cheap tool shop.
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07-07-2009, 11:43 PM
#9
pilot "bushing" material is soft metal compared to a hard metal tool so be carefull not to distort it.
You can use a short pieece of wooden dowel if you want or just be carefull when useing a socket
insert bearing until face is flush with end of crank...NOT all the way inside
You can use a short pieece of wooden dowel if you want or just be carefull when useing a socket
insert bearing until face is flush with end of crank...NOT all the way inside
07-08-2009, 10:00 PM
#11
Yes, but... Yes, most bushings are indeed oil inpregnated bronze, but additional lube IS required at higher speeds, which according to Mark's Handbook is greater than 1000 RPM.
So, if your flywheel turns at greater than 1000 RPM (and it does) then your bushing needs grease.
If it is not greased, it will eventually destroy the input shaft.
Last edited by great421; 07-09-2009 at 06:40 AM.
07-09-2009, 10:02 AM
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Yes, most bushings are indeed oil inpregnated bronze, but additional lube IS required at higher speeds, which according to Mark's Handbook is greater than 1000 RPM.
So, if your flywheel turns at greater than 1000 RPM (and it does) then your bushing needs grease.
If it is not greased, it will eventually destroy the input shaft.
So, if your flywheel turns at greater than 1000 RPM (and it does) then your bushing needs grease.
If it is not greased, it will eventually destroy the input shaft.
07-09-2009, 10:37 AM
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Yes, most bushings are indeed oil inpregnated bronze, but additional lube IS required at higher speeds, which according to Mark's Handbook is greater than 1000 RPM.
So, if your flywheel turns at greater than 1000 RPM (and it does) then your bushing needs grease.
If it is not greased, it will eventually destroy the input shaft.
So, if your flywheel turns at greater than 1000 RPM (and it does) then your bushing needs grease.
If it is not greased, it will eventually destroy the input shaft.
Think about it...you put in a new bushing, with grease. You then button it up and forget about it for the next 2,3,4 or 5 years until you either pull the tranny and happen to think about it, or replace the clutch and put in another new one. You don't REALLY think the little bit of grease you put in there originally is still there, do you?
This is exactly why they are made from oil impregnated bronze.
07-09-2009, 11:49 PM
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They make a bushing and a bearing. Both type of people. I don't like teh bushing.
To me, it's simple. On teh front end/spindle, use a bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Differential...bearing or a bushing? bearing
Axle, bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Input shaft of your transmission, bearing or a bushing? I am using a bearing
To me, it's simple. On teh front end/spindle, use a bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Differential...bearing or a bushing? bearing
Axle, bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Input shaft of your transmission, bearing or a bushing? I am using a bearing
07-10-2009, 09:49 AM
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They make a bushing and a bearing. Both type of people. I don't like teh bushing.
To me, it's simple. On teh front end/spindle, use a bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Differential...bearing or a bushing? bearing
Axle, bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Input shaft of your transmission, bearing or a bushing? I am using a bearing
To me, it's simple. On teh front end/spindle, use a bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Differential...bearing or a bushing? bearing
Axle, bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Input shaft of your transmission, bearing or a bushing? I am using a bearing
07-10-2009, 09:59 PM
#17
OK fleetmgr, I respect your position, but as a former GM Powertrain Transmission Calibration Engineer, I have indeed seen one; only one, but I have seen one. IMHO, that is reason enough to add the $0.02 worth of lubricant.
Also, you yourself stated: " ...you put in a new bushing, with grease; you then button it up and forget about it for the next 2,3,4, or 5 years until you pull the tranny..."
That's exactly what you should do, install it with grease!
Yes, I agree, the grease will NOT last forever, but neither will the oil which in associated with oil impregnated bronze. Additionally, the faster the bushing spins, the quicker the oil is drawn from the bronze. That's why there are Mark's Handbook Engineering Specifications on what minimum rotational speed requires additional lubrication over and above the oil in the bronze.
I do not want this to digress any further, I'm just trying to help "gmmusclecarman" from trashing his T56's Input Shaft, nothing more, nothing less.
Also, you yourself stated: " ...you put in a new bushing, with grease; you then button it up and forget about it for the next 2,3,4, or 5 years until you pull the tranny..."
That's exactly what you should do, install it with grease!
Yes, I agree, the grease will NOT last forever, but neither will the oil which in associated with oil impregnated bronze. Additionally, the faster the bushing spins, the quicker the oil is drawn from the bronze. That's why there are Mark's Handbook Engineering Specifications on what minimum rotational speed requires additional lubrication over and above the oil in the bronze.
I do not want this to digress any further, I'm just trying to help "gmmusclecarman" from trashing his T56's Input Shaft, nothing more, nothing less.
After having seen hundreds of these from cars of various mileages, and never having seen one with a destroyed input shaft caused by a lack of lube on the pilot bushing, I'd question this.
Think about it...you put in a new bushing, with grease. You then button it up and forget about it for the next 2,3,4 or 5 years until you either pull the tranny and happen to think about it, or replace the clutch and put in another new one. You don't REALLY think the little bit of grease you put in there originally is still there, do you?
This is exactly why they are made from oil impregnated bronze.
Think about it...you put in a new bushing, with grease. You then button it up and forget about it for the next 2,3,4 or 5 years until you either pull the tranny and happen to think about it, or replace the clutch and put in another new one. You don't REALLY think the little bit of grease you put in there originally is still there, do you?
This is exactly why they are made from oil impregnated bronze.
Last edited by great421; 07-10-2009 at 10:12 PM.
07-10-2009, 10:09 PM
#18
Yep - Bearings > Bushings OK, my Step-father (a retired GM / ASE certified Master Mechanic) chimed in on this one, and (like me) said pilot bearings are an upgrade over bushings, but he has serious reservations about installing either dry.
He stated: "Would you install a wheel bearing dry?" (No) Then why even consider installing a pilot bearing dry?
To me, his logic is unquestionable and sound.
Again, I could be wrong, I'm just trying to keep a guy from trashing his tranny...
He stated: "Would you install a wheel bearing dry?" (No) Then why even consider installing a pilot bearing dry?
To me, his logic is unquestionable and sound.
Again, I could be wrong, I'm just trying to keep a guy from trashing his tranny...
They make a bushing and a bearing. Both type of people. I don't like the bushing.
To me, it's simple. On the front end/spindle, use a bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Differential...bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Axle, bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Input shaft of your transmission, bearing or a bushing? I am using a bearing
To me, it's simple. On the front end/spindle, use a bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Differential...bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Axle, bearing or a bushing? Bearing
Input shaft of your transmission, bearing or a bushing? I am using a bearing
07-10-2009, 10:11 PM
#19
