dyno tomorrow. race gas to meth swap, tuning sugestions?
07-14-2009, 07:09 PM
#1
dyno tomorrow. race gas to meth swap, tuning sugestions? we are going to hit up the dyno tomorrow with the wagon. the main reason we are going is we all want to see the diference in power between race fuel and meth. right now our iat's go from 110deg to 215deg during the run. the set up was built with meth in mind and has no intercooler and it also has a pair of 96lb injectors right after the turbos.
right now we are running around 35% duty cycle with 10 96's running race gas, that is at 510rwhp hp on a mustang dyno. with the meth we expect to be in the ~80% duty cycle range or higher. this is a duel fuel set up so 99% of the time it will be running on pump gas and only on the meth at wot.
i am hoping for 50+hp without changing the boost level.
anyone want to give predictions or have any tuning suggestions to give? our plan is to tune it to ~11.5-11.9 on gas and then take that fuel times 2.5 and run the meth. set up is stock 6.0 other than ls6 cam and springs, around 10psi for now. 4l80e with lock up.
right now we are running around 35% duty cycle with 10 96's running race gas, that is at 510rwhp hp on a mustang dyno. with the meth we expect to be in the ~80% duty cycle range or higher. this is a duel fuel set up so 99% of the time it will be running on pump gas and only on the meth at wot.
i am hoping for 50+hp without changing the boost level.
anyone want to give predictions or have any tuning suggestions to give? our plan is to tune it to ~11.5-11.9 on gas and then take that fuel times 2.5 and run the meth. set up is stock 6.0 other than ls6 cam and springs, around 10psi for now. 4l80e with lock up.
07-14-2009, 09:31 PM
#2
Is the stock 6.0 an lq4 or lq9? If it's an lq4 you should be able to ramp up a metric ****-ton of extra timing. Combined with the extra oxygen in the meth, that should give more than 50hp extra. Also, because of the meth's lower burn temps, you shouldn't have to deviate as far below stoich as you would with gasoline. As usual, I look forward to seeing the results of your experiment.
Good luck with your toy, that thing is bad *** 
07-14-2009, 10:01 PM
#4
Is the stock 6.0 an lq4 or lq9? If it's an lq4 you should be able to ramp up a metric ****-ton of extra timing. Combined with the extra oxygen in the meth, that should give more than 50hp extra. Also, because of the meth's lower burn temps, you shouldn't have to deviate as far below stoich as you would with gasoline. As usual, I look forward to seeing the results of your experiment.
i guess for the test to mean much we will need to optimize the timing for each fuel. we have always ran 15deg with the race fuel and then just added boost when we wanted more power.
from what i am reading we should be able to run a ton of fuel if we want. as rich as 4/1 but probably in the 5-6/1 range.
07-14-2009, 10:05 PM
#5
lq4.
i guess for the test to mean much we will need to optimize the timing for each fuel. we have always ran 15deg with the race fuel and then just added boost when we wanted more power.
from what i am reading we should be able to run a ton of fuel if we want. as rich as 4/1 but probably in the 5-6/1 range.
i guess for the test to mean much we will need to optimize the timing for each fuel. we have always ran 15deg with the race fuel and then just added boost when we wanted more power.
from what i am reading we should be able to run a ton of fuel if we want. as rich as 4/1 but probably in the 5-6/1 range.
07-15-2009, 07:14 AM
#6
I would just read the AFRs off the gasoline scale if ruining a mix of the two. Your intake valve temp will be considerably lower and your EGTs too. You should be able to run a lot more ign advance.
I would not be surprised if you can tune another 100+hp into it at the same boost level. By the time you see the extra hp with the meth, I would expect to tap out those 96's completely.
Should be a lot of fun, looking forward to results and what you find!!!
I would not be surprised if you can tune another 100+hp into it at the same boost level. By the time you see the extra hp with the meth, I would expect to tap out those 96's completely.
Should be a lot of fun, looking forward to results and what you find!!!
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07-15-2009, 05:23 PM
#8
I'm confused.
For the test are you going to run 100% meth or just run meth thru the 2 extra injectors and race gas thru the other 8?
Are the 2 extra injectors controlled by an aftermarket EMS or some sort of standalone meth inj setup?
If thru the EMS, how are you biasing the 2 extra injectors? By this I mean are they getting equal duty or are they working more or less than the other 8?
For the test are you going to run 100% meth or just run meth thru the 2 extra injectors and race gas thru the other 8?
Are the 2 extra injectors controlled by an aftermarket EMS or some sort of standalone meth inj setup?
If thru the EMS, how are you biasing the 2 extra injectors? By this I mean are they getting equal duty or are they working more or less than the other 8?
07-16-2009, 12:02 AM
#11
tonight things were going well. got it tuned well on the race gas and the fade from pump to race gas worked well. then we went for the meth. started out at 2.5x the amount of meth as we had race gas and it went way rich. after a few runs pulling fuel we killed something. we thought we killed the squirt but it turned out it was just a fuse but by the time we found the problem we were all ready off the dyno. we will have to go back next week and get some numbers.
we did get it close enough to goto the track on friday. a/f ratio is showing around 10.0 on the gauge and it is pulling hard. power numbers were looking to be the same or slightly more than with race gas but that is without upping the timing and we were still pig rich. really we didn't learn anything about meth tonight.
07-16-2009, 11:56 PM
#15
ok, we learned a few things tonight. some things were confusing. we were running 2 lc1's but were getting significantly different numbers from one bank to the other. 9.5 on the right, 11.0 on the right. sensor location wasn't exactly the same, one turbo might be leaking a slight bit of oil... who knows why they were different. also our boost was floating around as much as .5psi. kind of hard to count on your numbers if you see .5psi change in boost.
mustang dyno, no intercooler, locked 4l80e, boost around 10psi, stock 6.0 other than 02 z06 cam and good springs.
base run with 118tt fuel and 16deg of timing was 499-505rwhp. a/f at 11.5-11.9, 3 runs, ait's in the 220-240 range.
switch to meth and tune to 9.5 on the same gauge got us 524rwhp, 2 runs with exact same hp numbers. iat's droping to 80deg by the end of the run. from 240 with race gas to 80 with meth.
move timing up to 18deg and gained 17hp(541hp) but we also saw a .5more psi.
moved timing to 20deg and got a couple more hp, then 22deg and a couple more hp, then 24deg and a couple more hp. we ended up around 555hp. the hp alone was not worth running that much timing but the car was pulling much cleaner each time we added more. chart was smoother and the power after the peek numbers carried much better.
next we tried to add a little boost. after about 5 runs we were never able to get our boost solenoid to work. what we did see is the car getting leaner and leaner. not sure why it was geting leaner but i can say for sure the car liked it. each run we made more power but boost never went up. af ratio ended up around 11.3(11.9 on lc1 number 2). at that a/f ratio we pulled 604rwhp. this was back to back runs.
we are happy as could be with 600rwhp at 10psi. seems like that would be around 700rw on a dynojet. the fairmont was a lot different but for comparison sakes we made 535rwhp at 14psi.
mustang dyno, no intercooler, locked 4l80e, boost around 10psi, stock 6.0 other than 02 z06 cam and good springs.
base run with 118tt fuel and 16deg of timing was 499-505rwhp. a/f at 11.5-11.9, 3 runs, ait's in the 220-240 range.
switch to meth and tune to 9.5 on the same gauge got us 524rwhp, 2 runs with exact same hp numbers. iat's droping to 80deg by the end of the run. from 240 with race gas to 80 with meth.
move timing up to 18deg and gained 17hp(541hp) but we also saw a .5more psi.
moved timing to 20deg and got a couple more hp, then 22deg and a couple more hp, then 24deg and a couple more hp. we ended up around 555hp. the hp alone was not worth running that much timing but the car was pulling much cleaner each time we added more. chart was smoother and the power after the peek numbers carried much better.
next we tried to add a little boost. after about 5 runs we were never able to get our boost solenoid to work. what we did see is the car getting leaner and leaner. not sure why it was geting leaner but i can say for sure the car liked it. each run we made more power but boost never went up. af ratio ended up around 11.3(11.9 on lc1 number 2). at that a/f ratio we pulled 604rwhp. this was back to back runs.
we are happy as could be with 600rwhp at 10psi. seems like that would be around 700rw on a dynojet. the fairmont was a lot different but for comparison sakes we made 535rwhp at 14psi.
07-17-2009, 06:24 AM
#17
like i said above the sensors are slightly different locations, one of the turbos seems to be leaking a slight amount. car seems to have some voltage issues where the coolant temp readings are a little off at wot and snap back to normal right after you let off so maybe that? or maybe they really are different from bank to bank. injectors are brand new and the car runs well so we probably wont worry about it too much.
07-17-2009, 06:38 AM
#18
I tuned a supercharged LT1 this past weekend using meth or rather windshield fluid, The A/F would have a good fat curve but started to lean out at the top, the motor didn't sound smooth, we did a couple of runs then decided to cut the fluids. A/F graph smoothed out, the motor sounded much crisper and made more hp,?? Maybe the windshield washer fluid?
07-18-2009, 02:12 AM
#19
whoa. car runs good
drove it to the track
first run was a soft launch, 1.83 60' and then john let out well before then end and ran a 7.0@92
next run he hit it slightly harder off the line and pulled a 1.77 60' and then hit the brakes before then end. ran 6.9@91
third run he did a pretty hard brake stall before letting the car go and pulled a 1.65 60'. on that run he ran it all the way. timing malfunction
while waiting in line for another run the car died. it never dies. turns out we burnt up a voltage regulator or something along those lines. easy and cheap fix but not at the track so we had to drag it home.
i didn't drive the car but from where i was at it looks very smooth and it looks like it is really moving. we didnt expect a 1.65 60' with just a brake stall so we are real happy about that. john said he is almost sure it pulled a wheel on that last run. car seems so quiet at the track. i bet that last run was in the 6.6 range at well over 100mph.
next is a little nitrous to help it off the line. for now it is making pleanty of power so making it off the line better and working thru any issues will be our next goals. i think it will be well into the 9's on 10-11psi wich is our minimum boost.
drove it to the track
first run was a soft launch, 1.83 60' and then john let out well before then end and ran a 7.0@92
next run he hit it slightly harder off the line and pulled a 1.77 60' and then hit the brakes before then end. ran 6.9@91
third run he did a pretty hard brake stall before letting the car go and pulled a 1.65 60'. on that run he ran it all the way. timing malfunction
while waiting in line for another run the car died. it never dies. turns out we burnt up a voltage regulator or something along those lines. easy and cheap fix but not at the track so we had to drag it home.
i didn't drive the car but from where i was at it looks very smooth and it looks like it is really moving. we didnt expect a 1.65 60' with just a brake stall so we are real happy about that. john said he is almost sure it pulled a wheel on that last run. car seems so quiet at the track. i bet that last run was in the 6.6 range at well over 100mph.
next is a little nitrous to help it off the line. for now it is making pleanty of power so making it off the line better and working thru any issues will be our next goals. i think it will be well into the 9's on 10-11psi wich is our minimum boost.
