LT1-LT4 Modifications - 383 or 396 and which heads?

Im trying to peice together my future build.

i know the 383 is solid, but the 396 makes more power. I also hear the 396 will not last as long as a 383. im looking to get at least 100,000 miles out of this. so what do you think?

As for heads, i can buy AFR 210cc heads at 550-650 lift flow over 300. $2000

or AFR 227cc heads that flow pretty much the same as above for $1600 (will the supporting parts be pretty much the same as above since they flow the same, or since its 227cc i have to use different? can i use a ported LT4 intake with these?)

buying these heads from summit, are they bolt in ready or would i be better off buying AI's TFS 215cc heads that flow just below the AFR's above, but cost $2500 bolt in ready.

or can i buy either of the AFR heads and buy the rest to bolt them in for under $2500 so i get the better flowing heads for cheaper?

LE is ok if you already have your heads purchased and want them ported. it would cost me over 1000 for new lt1 heads, then another 1350 for him to port, and they dont match the above heads. i will either go with LE cam or AI cam.

I would go with the ported Ai TFS heads over out of the box AFR heads.

I don't see why a well built 396 wouldn't last as long as a 383.

Get a custom Ai cam to match the Ai TFS heads if you go that route...

Big brother will be watching this thread. KEEP IT CONSTRUCTIVE. NO BASHING VENDORS OR OTHER MEMBERS. We don't want to have to keep closing these cylinder head related threads because of fighting.

when i talked to LE about a 396 build and getting heads, he recommended i get the bare dart 200cc heads which i believe will cost about 1200 or so and then he can port them and get over 300cfm. i forget what he quoted me on the porting end. just throwing that out there.

AI would also be an excellent choice and their products have been proven over and over...its really just a matter of preference. i feel either one can get you to your goals

How come out of box AFRs that flow better at every lift not out perform AI's TFS?

Im not trying to compare LE vs AI, i just want the best product for my money.

I contacted LE and he still has not got back to me.

i know its only about $500 but i thought since the afr 210cc competition porting heads flowed better than AI's TFS heads, and were $500 cheaper, would be the better set up.

that is if afr's flow chart is correct on their website

How come out of box AFRs that flow better at every lift not out perform AI's TFS?

Im not trying to compare LE vs AI, i just want the best product for my money.

I contacted LE and he still has not got back to me.

i know its only about $500 but i thought since the afr 210cc competition porting heads flowed better than AI's TFS heads, and were $500 cheaper, would be the better set up.

that is if afr's flow chart is correct on their website

I don't know all the facts but you need to think about flow numbers compared to flow numbers. You need to find out what bore the heads are flowed against and what flow bench they are using. As I understand it, the AFR's are flowed on something like a 4.125" bore (forgive me if I am mistaken). Also flow #'s aren't everything, how they flow counts too. They are a badass set of heads, but I assume that the Ai ported TFS heads would outperform them. Someone straighten me out if I am wrong.

It'd be better to go with an AI 200cc or LE3 package than unported afr 210s. The 227s require at the least an offset rocker setup, but you'd be better with shaft mounted rockers. Can't go wrong with Ai TFS heads, but you won't find a better exhaust port than AFRs. My AFR 210s ended up about 218 cc after hand porting, and flow 320+ on a 4" bore.

Cruzer, the heads are going to be what makes your car fast or put out the power you want it too. The better AFR and TFS and AI and LE heads can do it. You need to talk to people that have done it for real and not worry as much about internet talk with people that have barely made over 400 RWHP. Not aiming this at anyone in particular as there are several guys on this LTx part of LS1tech that have made big power and actually have results but talk to them.

I would want the best heads available for a 23 degree LTx deal as that is the main reason they lag behind their big brother the LSx. With great heads everything else will become much easier. I would NOT be scared of much larger heads either like some of the people here are. I have done SBC deals with 235+cc heads with a ton of low end torque as the cam is simply changed with the better and larger heads. The manifolds are somewhat lacking but in general what works with real SBCs is the same that works here.

A correctly built 396-408 will make more hp and tq than a 383 but may also cost much more so you have to decide if it's worth it. I'd still get the best heads you can over any crazy shortblock and I am saying that even though I am an engine builder. I also worked at SAM for some years and ported heads and have seen first hand what happens when the heads are there vs. a great shortblock and cam etc. with crap heads. With crap heads the engine is also a hooptie. With good heads you can make the other stuff actually count.

How come out of box AFRs that flow better at every lift not out perform AI's TFS?

Im not trying to compare LE vs AI, i just want the best product for my money.

I contacted LE and he still has not got back to me.

i know its only about $500 but i thought since the afr 210cc competition porting heads flowed better than AI's TFS heads, and were $500 cheaper, would be the better set up.

that is if afr's flow chart is correct on their website

Flow #'s by themselves are pretty meaningless. I'de listen to Racer7088 and copy somebody else's setup that has achieved your goals.

I would want the best heads available for a 23 degree LTx deal as that is the main reason they lag behind their big brother the LSx. With great heads everything else will become much easier. I would NOT be scared of much larger heads either like some of the people here are. I have done SBC deals with 235+cc heads with a ton of low end torque as the cam is simply changed with the better and larger heads. The manifolds are somewhat lacking but in general what works with real SBCs is the same that works here.


Very well said. It seems that a lot of people are terrified over anything bigger then a 190-200cc head. Smallblocks can successfully use large runner heads if everything else in the combo is specced properly - especially with an LTX that can run higher CR thanks to the reverse cooling. You wont be running the same wide split exhaust duration cam as with the smaller heads, but with a the proper setup you wont lose much on the low end.

The heads are an even bigger factory when you want to make big power NA...which sadly too many people think an LTX can't do.

Im trying to peice together my future build.

i know the 383 is solid, but the 396 makes more power. I also hear the 396 will not last as long as a 383. im looking to get at least 100,000 miles out of this. so what do you think?

As for heads, i can buy AFR 210cc heads at 550-650 lift flow over 300. $2000

or AFR 227cc heads that flow pretty much the same as above for $1600 (will the supporting parts be pretty much the same as above since they flow the same, or since its 227cc i have to use different? can i use a ported LT4 intake with these?)

buying these heads from summit, are they bolt in ready or would i be better off buying AI's TFS 215cc heads that flow just below the AFR's above, but cost $2500 bolt in ready.

or can i buy either of the AFR heads and buy the rest to bolt them in for under $2500 so i get the better flowing heads for cheaper?

LE is ok if you already have your heads purchased and want them ported. it would cost me over 1000 for new lt1 heads, then another 1350 for him to port, and they dont match the above heads. i will either go with LE cam or AI cam.

i would go with a 396 and AI 200cc GM LT1 heads. the heads are $600 for new LT1 GM castings from AI and $1650 for porting and parts. i would go also with a custom AI cam. i wouldn't raise the compression over 11.5:1.

alright let me ask this.

i know someone who had either stock lt1 heads or the trick flows ported by LE, the LE2 package. not sure what cam, it was one that passes emissions though, so not to big, LE says the biggest emission cam is 223/230 .565/.565 112 LSA.
with 3000 stall, 4.10 gears, AUTO trans.

it made 415 rwhp, and ran an 11.5 1/4.

that was with a 396, if i use the 215cc TFS AI heads, that flow over 300, AI matching cam, 3000-3600 stall, 373 gears, auto trans, BUT on a 383, will i have similar performance or better?

AI has a nice quality 383 rotating assembly but no 396, where can i get similar quality but for a 396?

i know AI can provide me with what i need, the only thing im wondering is if im missing a cheaper route. not trying to be a cheapo, but if i dont need the tfs heads that flow over 300, i would get the power i need with the lt1 heads that flow 290s and i can save some, then that would be what i want.

i guess i just think the 215cc heads are going to be overkill, sure the power will be amazing but the price wont. the guy that i said i know made 415 with heads that flowed 275. i know u cant judge it all by flow #s but dont know what else to say about them, they were LE2 and even on his site it says flow about 275.

i know this is not going to be cheap, but were looking at $7k for a 383 thats just parts, not machine work or building work.

it should perform better. since the heads are a better head then the le2 ported gm. another head you can check out is TEAs 220cc TFS head there the ones i just got for my 383. very nice head and if you were comparing flow #s they top AIs

Im trying to peice together my future build.

i know the 383 is solid, but the 396 makes more power. I also hear the 396 will not last as long as a 383. im looking to get at least 100,000 miles out of this. so what do you think?

As for heads, i can buy AFR 210cc heads at 550-650 lift flow over 300. $2000

or AFR 227cc heads that flow pretty much the same as above for $1600 (will the supporting parts be pretty much the same as above since they flow the same, or since its 227cc i have to use different? can i use a ported LT4 intake with these?)

buying these heads from summit, are they bolt in ready or would i be better off buying AI's TFS 215cc heads that flow just below the AFR's above, but cost $2500 bolt in ready.

or can i buy either of the AFR heads and buy the rest to bolt them in for under $2500 so i get the better flowing heads for cheaper?

LE is ok if you already have your heads purchased and want them ported. it would cost me over 1000 for new lt1 heads, then another 1350 for him to port, and they dont match the above heads. i will either go with LE cam or AI cam.

A few quick points for you to consider while you're still planning.

1. You aren't going to get 100k out of most any setup (aside from stock) without spring replacement and head freshening (guides, valvejob, etc).
2. Flow numbers are neither comparable, nor are they a reliable indicator of potential.
3. If the car is currently running, don't start buying parts until you have the money to complete the project. If $1k over what you planned would stop your build, keep saving.
4. Erik is right - if you put a mediocre top-end on a stellar short block, you're going to be out run by stock short block guys with higher-end heads & valve train.

it should perform better. since the heads are a better head then the le2 ported gm. another head you can check out is TEAs 220cc TFS head there the ones i just got for my 383. very nice head and if you were comparing flow #s they top AIs

TEA has a great product. However, their reported numbers are not only off of a different bench/fixturing/setup, but an entirely different brand of bench. Attempts to draw conclusions based off of incomparable data is typically not in your best interest. The probability you'll choose the part with the most potential that way is likely on par with simply flipping a coin. :D

Flow #'s by themselves are pretty meaningless. I'de listen to Racer7088 and copy somebody else's setup that has achieved your goals.

ya.. i just found someone.

he has AI's 200cc dominator heads, supporting parts, and ran an 11.1, not sure of his hp tho

AI quoted me $4,255 for a complete top end kit with the same heads, plus ill have to buy their 383 rotating assembly for $2100.

totaling $6355 + tax, shipping

how much do u think a local shop would charge to put it all together? hope they dont ruin this beautiful setup

3000,3200,3600 stall? thats the final question for my complete car (i think =/

your gonna need the block machined and clearanced and all (unless its done) the shop i used was askin $600 for assembly of the shortblock.

A few quick points for you to consider while you're still planning.

1. You aren't going to get 100k out of most any setup (aside from stock) without spring replacement and head freshening (guides, valvejob, etc).
2. Flow numbers are neither comparable, nor are they a reliable indicator of potential.
3. If the car is currently running, don't start buying parts until you have the money to complete the project. If $1k over what you planned would stop your build, keep saving.
4. Erik is right - if you put a mediocre top-end on a stellar short block, you're going to be out run by stock short block guys with higher-end heads & valve train.

1. i have plans to buy replacement springs for the car, and the AI quote says: "Pacaloy 1220 Beehive Spring w/Custom Hardened & Machined 10deg Steel Components (Not Inferior
Stamped Parts)"
2. then why bother posting them on your website? they are utterly useless but ya we post them on our website. go us!
3. this is just a big plan ahead, im just starting bolt ons. in the end ill have around 25k in the car, and it will out run 2006+ c6 z06 corvettes that cost 100k haha.
4.i hope AI's all forged 383 rotating assembly isnt stellar set up for a short block

thanks for the help though, always glad to make sure im on the right path

It has to be a proportionate complete package, meaning each item, cam, heads, compression, intake ect compliment each other. I have seen motors with huge runners, big cams and then another with smaller heads, smaller cams that made more tq and power because it was the right combo...

1. i have plans to buy replacement springs for the car, and the AI quote says: "Pacaloy 1220 Beehive Spring w/Custom Hardened & Machined 10deg Steel Components (Not Inferior
Stamped Parts)"
2. then why bother posting them on your website? they are utterly useless but ya we post them on our website. go us!
3. this is just a big plan ahead, im just starting bolt ons. in the end ill have around 25k in the car, and it will out run 2006+ c6 z06 corvettes that cost 100k haha.
4.i hope AI's all forged 383 rotating assembly isnt stellar set up for a short block

thanks for the help though, always glad to make sure im on the right path

Sarcasm is one of those things that start feuds on the internet. :eyes:

It has to be a proportionate complete package, meaning each item, cam, heads, compression, intake ect compliment each other. I have seen motors with huge runners, big cams and then another with smaller heads, smaller cams that made more tq and power because it was the right combo...

Right, appropriate combinations are what makes power. Big runners usually use smaller cams and small runner heads usually use larger cams to make the same power so you already have two combos that would have wildy different performance rpm windows if you have big runners AND big cams vs. small runners AND small cams!

AI quoted me $4,255 for a complete top end kit with the same heads, plus ill have to buy their 383 rotating assembly for $2100.

totaling $6355 + tax, shipping

how much do u think a local shop would charge to put it all together? hope they dont ruin this beautiful setup

That sounds almost exactly like the 383 I plan to build. ;)

how much do u think a local shop would charge to put it all together? hope they dont ruin this beautiful setup

Shouldn't break the bank. The key is to find a reputable machine shop in your area that stands by their work.

3000,3200,3600 stall? thats the final question for my complete car (i think =/

I would go with a Yank SS3600-SS4000. Depends on your preference. But I'm a T56 guy, you might want to get more feedback on this.

Sarcasm is one of those things that start feuds on the internet. :eyes:

x2222222 really, watch what u type. :nod:

to the orginal poster. i would do full bolt ons first and see how u like it b4 dipping into a huge engine build. u'd be surprised how much power these cars have if u harness it correctly.

Don't forget, when you make big power you need to upgrade your drivetrain too. Better transmission and a helluva lot better rearend. More $$$$

I finally got to run my stroker and the rear is whining after 2 good lauches!!!!

Sarcasm is one of those things that start feuds on the internet. :eyes:

the only sarcasm was about AI's rotating assembly (because he is from AI and i think i mentioned before he posted i was looking at getting their 383 one.), other than that i am genuinely glad he helped me realize im doing ok with what i have chosen so far.

i got AI to get me a complete top end kit, they gave me heads, cam, gasket and head bolt kit, hydraulic roller kit, fuel injector set, TB, intake porting. i have confidence they know what works best together, it should be pretty dominant imho.

also i said that i will have 25k invested in the car by the time im done.

i have rear end, full suspension, trans, etc. all of the goodies planned out.

also on the converter, i was told a 3200-3600 is best for driving somewhat often on the street. the guy that had an engine a little less powerful than this had a 3000 and made 415 rwhp. i figured 3000 with a stronger engine get me around 425. but a 3200-3600 would be better for going faster hehe.

i have a guy offering a yank3600 for $450 im supposed to let him know tomorrow, only problem is i dont want to get it if its too much, maybe i only need like a 3200. brand new the 3600 is 725$ so im saving some if i can use it.

the only problem i have with this setup is its going to be at most $7500 for the parts that includes tax and shipping. a local engine builder says 1500 for everything from taking my block and preparing it, doing the rotating seembly, and the top end. so $9000 for something i will get around 450 rwhp, which was my original plan for power.

or i can get golen's 396/520hp $8000. chad says he used the same thing with a little less flowing heads and got the 415 rwhp through stalled auto. now they use better heads and its putting out around 540hp and so i will get like 425rwhp for a grand cheaper?

the local engine builder says he can make a 500hp lt1 for $6500, not sure if that includes labor or not, if it doesnt it will probably be around $7500 for his complete. i will be around 400-415 rwhp with his im guessing

what do you guys think?

Have your local builder build the motor. This way you can stop in, check the progress, and not pay shipping and all that other crap. Talking to a live person is a thousand times better than talking to a voice on a phone.

Not to mention Golen has shoddy workmanship. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

When it comes to building an engine YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! Don't scrimp or you will end up doing it over to get what you orginally wanted.

There is a reason certain parts, shops and services cost more than others. It seems like you are taking what a saleman says as fact.

You should really look at who's car is running like you want (or a goup of cars that perform as desired) and copy their setup. Going fast and making power isn't tricky.

things need to be planned in order for a good working setup. what will the car be used for? how much will it weigh? then pick your heads, pick a cam, pick a converter.

you shouldn't solely use an ET to base your decisions on what powertrain to go with. E.T. is simply the vehicle's ability to effectively use it's available power and get down the track and isn't exactly a perfect basis to compare setups for what power the motor makes. can't say a dyno comparison is the best either since many variables can exist between the two vehicles. imo the best idea would be to look at a combination of ET & Trap Speed, since trap speed is basically a calculation of power-to-weight and ET is the vehicles ability to utilize that power.

what will the car be used for? how much will it weigh? then pick your heads, pick a cam, pick a converter.

+1 to that order. cam should compliment heads, and convertor and gear compliment their combination. worry about convertor size after you decide what top end you'll be going with, talk with a convertor company or the cam grinder and they will have a decent idea of what stall would be optimal for your setup

I think you guys have gotten in such a format for replying to these types of threads.

i will go with AI or LE heads and cam. so there is no need to tell me pick my heads then pick my cam. they do that, they custom the cam just for the heads you chose. you guys just have to know this as much as they are talked about.

I have repeated at least 2 times that im not trying to be a cheapo, and scimp on parts. All i am asking is simply that i dont spend $10k for 425rwhp when i could spend just $7k for the same rwhp.

I think the best bet is just to call up companies that sell these parts, because they are just plain more helpful. They never tell you do bolt ons first, see if u like that power.

you're getting pissy for no reason at this point. yeah, you could probably make the same horsepower for less money, but is it going to be as reliable? that's what these guys are trying to tell you. and calling companies that sell you the parts are going to sound like geniuses, since they are the ones TRYING TO MAKE SALES. i've personally love the advice you have gotten in this thread and will keep it in mind for my build

There are people in this thread that have spent 10K and made more than your goal. There are plenty of people who have spent way more and made less power.

I have never seen a Golen setup make the power claimed to you and I have only seen the exact opposite (big claimed power and horrible track/dyno results).

I have seen more of the results you seek from one company than another. I highly recommend you go with Ai. You might call them and ask where you can bend on parts to save some money and reach your goals for less money. If you are laying down a big check with one company, they will know your whole setup. I'm not saying this to imply you are being cheap, just that if one place is specing your whole setup, they may tell you that X header will work just fine savign $250. They may tell you X oil pump is a waste of money or Y machine work is not necessary for your goals.

Are you required to pay tax on an out fo state purchase from NC to TN? That seems odd to me.

3. this is just a big plan ahead, im just starting bolt ons. in the end ill have around 25k in the car, and it will out run 2006+ c6 z06 corvettes that cost 100k haha.

:lol: Delusions of grandeur. First, anyone you're running that has a $100k Z06 is going to hurt your feelings and ego in a big way - especially considering that $3k in exhaust and a tune puts the whp numbers of the Z06 beyond your goal by ~50 and weighs ~600# less. Add a Vortech with only 4.5# pulley and power shoots to 650whp with all else bone stock - ouch! Unless your plans include huge weight reduction and a power adder, you're going to have a hard time with a well-driven stock Z06 that only costs $65k.

I applaud your enthusiasm, and 450whp through an auto is damn stout, but don't kid yourself.

I was not getting pissy lol

i just found them arguing about go by et times, go by trap time, go by the exact setup of someone else, not helpful.

i dont know if i am required to pay tax, i was just being prepared i guess.

as far as the z06, stock they run mid to high 11s. im hoping to get like an 11 flat. so i was assume that i would out run them. guess they have nos stock and can just hit it if im ahead.

i never said i could beat a modded z06. that would be kidding myself

is 450 rwhp through an auto impossible or something? ive heard people getting 400 no idea why 45-50 more is impossible

If you want to run 11 flat, 12g might get you close. Ask me how I know.

If you want to run 11 flat, consistently and reliably, 12g might get you close. Ask me how I know.

^^^Fixed.

If you want to run 11 flat, 12g might get you close. Ask me how I know.

im pretty much going for exactly what u have. u have ai's 200cc dominator heads, which is what they estimated me with and matching cam.

$8k for the engine using my block and the rest from AI. rotating assembly, heads, cam, injectors, hydraulic roller kit, TB.

$2k for rebuilt trans and stall
$2k for rear end

what suspension parts did u get though? i just got adjustable panhard bar and lower control arm so far.

Cruzer, have you spent some significant time searching out past threads here? Alot of the questions you are asking have been covered in great depth in the past. I'm not trying to say that to be condecending here, but to actually help you get answers quicker and with more detail. When I need technical info, I usually spend hours going through old threads and searching under different search words to seek out the info.

Jason

as far as the z06, stock they run mid to high 11s. im hoping to get like an 11 flat. so i was assume that i would out run them. guess they have nos stock and can just hit it if im ahead.

i never said i could beat a modded z06. that would be kidding myself

They run mid-11's easily actually, and those who know how to drive them well are into the low 11's. Furman's 10.981 is the fasted documented stock Z06.

Bone-Stock on Stock Tires ------*Current Avg. 11.506 secs. @ 123.965 mph 1.859 secs
******************General Motors Factory Specification: 11.7 seconds @125 mph.*****************


1----10.981 @ 128.90--1.77---jamie furman ------'06
2----11.138 @ 127.20--1.76---Ranger------'06.
3----11.242 @ 122.38--1.68---Dr.Ron------'06.
4----11.311 @ 122.89--1.80---BLU-BY-U------'06.
5----11.349 @ 124.97--1.75---zosix427-----'06.
Top 10 avg: 11.323 @ 124.99
6----11.392 @ 124.84--1.92--- C5 Frank------'06
7----11.429 @ 124.88--1.86---dgdoc------'06.
8----11.443 @ 125.93--1.95---O7zeeO6------'07
9----11.458 @ 124.13--1.80--- layjzay----- '06
10---11.488 @ 123.86--1.80---Z06kait-----'07

Whether you hit an 11-flat will depend on many other factors, such as supporting parts, suspension, weather, track conditions and whether you can even drive. Not a slam - this is reality.

NOS stock?? Um, no, but you might need it. But then again, if you think stock Z06's cost $100k, maybe you do believe they have nitrous from the factory too.

Not sure what you consider modded, but with only bolt-ons, a few are deep into the 10's - with air conditioning and other creature comforts on the car without a lick of nitrous!

I have a modified LTX, and lucky enough to have a mild bolt-on C6 Z06 (soom to have LSXR and cam) and can tell you from first hand experience that it isn't going to be cheap or easy to get a 12-16 year old platform to perform like, or easily beat, the Z06.

Good luck to you.

The creature comforts are the difference. It is very easy to get an LTX into the 11s. To get one into the 11s with as much comfort as a new z06 will take TONS of cash...and then your bragging rights limit you to being only as fast as a stock car.

Build the car how you want, because you can't have your cake and eat it too. There is always someone faster...and when your street cars are heavily modded and crazy fast, a stockish crotch rocket will smoke it at the track and the cycle starts all over. 9's are to bikes what 12's are to cars.

The point is, comparing apples to oranges is kind of pointless. Its an LTX, and should be compared to other cars in the same category. Don't get caught up trying to beat far superior platforms, because you'll either end up successful and broke, or fail and still be broke...and either way you'll be crazy :lol:.

NOS stock?? Um, no, but you might need it. But then again, if you think stock Z06's cost $100k, maybe you do believe they have nitrous from the factory too.

Not sure what you consider modded, but with only bolt-ons, a few are deep into the 10's - with air conditioning and other creature comforts on the car without a lick of nitrous!

Its sarcasm, which clearly you dont understand. i just threw $100k out there, the point being that i would have a total of $25k invested in my car, including subs and nice wheels. while z06s have (so you understand) $70k spent for bone stock.

dont know about you, but i much prefer the decked out $25k car that can at least keep right behind the $70k car, not to mention added features like seats 4, subs, etc.

The NOS was a joke as clearly no car bought from a dealership has it. How can you not understand that? It was in english, it was not a big jumbled sentence. I dont understand how you misunderstood the sarcasm.

really my objective was that some rich punk cant get his dad to buy him for example, the z06 and think he can out run me. I realize that if he bought it and then went and did bolt ons or whatever, good for him. he should out run me considering he spending even more $ on top of the already $70k car.

Its sarcasm, which clearly you dont understand. i just threw $100k out there, the point being that i would have a total of $25k invested in my car, including subs and nice wheels. while z06s have (so you understand) $70k spent for bone stock..

Actually, $65k spent, so you understand. I get the sarcasm, but if you want to say you can outrun a car that costs x more, throw on a 200 shot and run the 11.X you think it takes to beat that car. You miss the point too. Read Pucks response above mine - summed up perfectly. He gets it.

dont know about you, but i much prefer the decked out $25k car that can at least keep right behind the $70k car, not to mention added features like seats 4, subs, etc.

Keep up how? The $65k car at the end of the day still has residual value, a warrranty, better fuel economy, is less tempermental, doesn't rattle like a 15 year old car, is easier to drive in traffic, still has AC and looks better. You prefer the old car - good for you, but if you cannot see the differences and quantify those differences objectively, I just don't know what to tell you, other than as I said before - good luck. You dump $15k into your 15 year old car and guess what? As a whole, it still isn't worth wholesale value. Go ask David how selling his strong LTX worked out for him.

And we all know 4 seats is a joke - have you ever tried to sit back there? :lol: and subs? What are you, 16? You're going to saddle an aleady pig heavy car with more crap?

And you're right, it will be behind the $65k car - every day of the week. We haven't evven gotten to the point where there's a turn in the road - what happens then?

really my objective was that some rich punk cant get his dad to buy him for example, the z06 and think he can out run me. I realize that if he bought it and then went and did bolt ons or whatever, good for him. he should out run me considering he spending even more $ on top of the already $70k car.

What about the father who buys his kid a built LTX, who thinks he can outrun you? Your logic, or hopefully sarcasm, is just hilarious. Rich punks buy fast cars all the time.

I've got a friend with about $9k in parts in a '67 Nova that will wax your ass. Total investment is about $15k. See how that works? There is always someone faster, whether bought or built, whether a million dollars or fifty dollars, whether it belongs to an old racer geezer or a punk with a rich father.

As I've repeated three times now - good luck with your build, and I hope you slay every punk ass on the street with a car twice the value of yours.

Take your budget and goal and look them over VERY well. There have been MANY start off on the path you want to go down only to find out a year later it is out of reach. Look at the parts that need to be upgraded OUTSIDE the engine build. This is where people get bogged down. The money you spend on the engine itself, the same amount will be spent on the car to make it handle the power. Sit down and put it on paper...I did.

OUTSIDE the engine.

Fuel pump
Electric water pump
Headers
Exhaust
Transmission
Driveshaft
Torque converter/or clutch
Rear end
Gauges
Tach
Trans cooler
Injectors
Torque arm
Springs/shocks
Roll bar
Belts
Frame connectors
Dyno tune

Add up the nominal price for that stuff, and thats just the stuff off the top of my head that you are either gonna need or is gonna break.

It seems to me like you're more worried about someone else's car than your own.

Who gives a fuck about punk kids in C6 Z06s anyway?

Im not trying to have the fastest car in the world, i know i will always find someone that will out run me. Such random comments.

Why mod my stock car? its plenty fast for a street car, ur supposed to go the speed limit, not any faster.

When making a drag car, what makes u choose 11 seconds or 10 seconds? its pure bragging rights.

I am worried about my car, i want to have a fast car that does not get run but very rarely.

Why spend like $5k and lose most races? why not just leave it stock then? i can run a 14 stock, why do i need to go any faster?

Why cant people tell me what i need to get what i want. instead of crap about get bolt ons and see if thats good enough power. you cant compete with the z06 no matter what.

It seems to me like you're more worried about someone else's car than your own.

Who gives a fuck about punk kids in C6 Z06s anyway?

When put so simply it really does get right to the point :nod:.

uh huh, and how did any of you pick your power? was it your budget?

if i didnt care about anyone else's car or power i would just do cheap bolt ons and have plenty fast of a car??

stock i can floor it and get to the speed limit quick. i can go 70 mph, i can squeal tires, anything else i want.

why even bother messing with it? for me winning a race is fun and exciting. so i want a very strong car, because if im losing more than im winning im not going to be happy.

whats the point in running a 10 sec, 11 sec is plenty fast. 125mph traps.

get it?

Take your budget and goal and look them over VERY well. There have been MANY start off on the path you want to go down only to find out a year later it is out of reach. Look at the parts that need to be upgraded OUTSIDE the engine build. This is where people get bogged down. The money you spend on the engine itself, the same amount will be spent on the car to make it handle the power. Sit down and put it on paper...I did.

OUTSIDE the engine.

Fuel pump
Electric water pump
Headers
Exhaust
Transmission
Driveshaft
Torque converter/or clutch
Rear end
Gauges
Tach
Trans cooler
Injectors
Torque arm
Springs/shocks
Roll bar
Belts
Frame connectors
Dyno tune

Add up the nominal price for that stuff, and thats just the stuff off the top of my head that you are either gonna need or is gonna break.

thx for the helpful post. i dont really have a budget. i would like to keep the total invested in the car about $25k but its just an over time project. im working on bolt ons and suspension for now. ill finish up with trans and engine.

just trying to pick up used parts as i go along to cut the price and capture on good deals.

this guy has no clue

this guy has no clue


agreed.... but then again I had to eat my first $15k before I found a clue. As he has said the website is here for others to not make the same mistakes... yet makes listening to the advice so difficult.

1) LTx fbody < C6 Z06. <--- thats a period


2) If you want a natrually aspirated big power motor... you are gonna blow a metric shit ton of cash on a set of heads and cam.

3) If you want it reliable you are going to blow a metric shit ton of cash on bottom end and valvetrain parts.

4) Find a budget, find a goal (that for gods sake isnt dyno or flow # based) and go from there.

Everyone here can help you alot more if we know what you want. Big numbers arent that hard, going fast on a track is. People have told you that... people that have spent the money and know from experience. (Trust me as well, spending 25 grand to outrun some rich kid isnt as satisfying as you might think... atleast not 2 years later.)

This thread is not going anywhere. Cruzer, spend more time searching for answers to your questions....you will get alot more info than one thread can provide.