Too much for a 346?
07-28-2009, 11:42 AM
#1
Too much for a 346? Im trying to make a decision and would like some opinions.
My Camaro project keeps costing more and more money, and although there is light at the end of the tunnel, it still has a long way and lot of money before it would be totally done. Its not priority right now, as school and a number of other things are first on the list. At the same time, it sucks to have that much money invested into something i cant enjoy.
Im considering removing the top end of my 418, and enjoying it in the mean time on my GTO. These heads were on my old 346 setup and worked great, but i also had a much smaller cam and wasn't running a vic jr/90 setup.
It consists of the following.
236/248 .617/.617 114LSA
TEA S3 5.3 Heads (2.055/1.60) (Flowed 338@.600 at TEA, then 328@.600 two years later at Bischof Engine Service)
Vic Jr Intake (port matched to my heads)
Intakeelbows.com Sheetmetal Intake Elbow
FAST 90mm TB.
I would also swap over my chromoly pushrods, double roller timing set, lifters, and yella terra rockers.
My GTO is stock other than long tube headers.
Im curious if the large cam, vic jr intake, etc... would totally kill the low end power and make it a motor that had to be spun to the moon.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
My Camaro project keeps costing more and more money, and although there is light at the end of the tunnel, it still has a long way and lot of money before it would be totally done. Its not priority right now, as school and a number of other things are first on the list. At the same time, it sucks to have that much money invested into something i cant enjoy.
Im considering removing the top end of my 418, and enjoying it in the mean time on my GTO. These heads were on my old 346 setup and worked great, but i also had a much smaller cam and wasn't running a vic jr/90 setup.
It consists of the following.
236/248 .617/.617 114LSA
TEA S3 5.3 Heads (2.055/1.60) (Flowed 338@.600 at TEA, then 328@.600 two years later at Bischof Engine Service)
Vic Jr Intake (port matched to my heads)
Intakeelbows.com Sheetmetal Intake Elbow
FAST 90mm TB.
I would also swap over my chromoly pushrods, double roller timing set, lifters, and yella terra rockers.
My GTO is stock other than long tube headers.
Im curious if the large cam, vic jr intake, etc... would totally kill the low end power and make it a motor that had to be spun to the moon.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
07-28-2009, 12:08 PM
#2
Its kinda big for a dd (not huge) and with stage 3 heads it might be a little soft down low, but you'll get a million opinions on it from conservative to some who drive a 242/244 daily. I'm more conservative 
Its the combination of the 236 and the stage 3 heads..kind of a top end performer over a power under the curve type setup.
from 4000-7000 rpms it will scream I imagine but 1200-3500 rpms might not be the most powerful I guess is a good way to put it maybe...
Its really personal taste. I was happy with the smaller 224 cam but the top end screamer 238 was a blast as well (in my 346) but was kind of a pain to drive sometimes. You couldn't just step on the gas if you needed a blast of power, you had to know what rpm you were at and shift accordingly. But with a smaller cam you could just leave it in 6th and step on the gas and pass someone with ease. Rolling someone you always have to be in the right gear and rpm so it doesnt matter your shifting anyway.
Its the combination of the 236 and the stage 3 heads..kind of a top end performer over a power under the curve type setup. from 4000-7000 rpms it will scream I imagine but 1200-3500 rpms might not be the most powerful I guess is a good way to put it maybe...
Its really personal taste. I was happy with the smaller 224 cam but the top end screamer 238 was a blast as well (in my 346) but was kind of a pain to drive sometimes. You couldn't just step on the gas if you needed a blast of power, you had to know what rpm you were at and shift accordingly. But with a smaller cam you could just leave it in 6th and step on the gas and pass someone with ease. Rolling someone you always have to be in the right gear and rpm so it doesnt matter your shifting anyway.
07-28-2009, 12:15 PM
#3
Its kinda big for a dd (not huge) and with stage 3 heads it might be a little soft down low, but you'll get a million opinions on it from conservative to some who drive a 242/244 daily. I'm more conservative Its the combination of the 236 and the stage 3 heads..kind of a top end performer over a power under the curve type setup.
from 4000-7000 rpms it will scream I imagine but 1200-3500 rpms might not be the most powerful I guess is a good way to put it maybe...
Its really personal taste. I was happy with the smaller 224 cam but the top end screamer 238 was a blast as well (in my 346) but was kind of a pain to drive sometimes. You couldn't just step on the gas if you needed a blast of power, you had to know what rpm you were at and shift accordingly. But with a smaller cam you could just leave it in 6th and step on the gas and pass someone with ease. Rolling someone you always have to be in the right gear and rpm so it doesnt matter your shifting anyway.
Its the combination of the 236 and the stage 3 heads..kind of a top end performer over a power under the curve type setup. from 4000-7000 rpms it will scream I imagine but 1200-3500 rpms might not be the most powerful I guess is a good way to put it maybe...
Its really personal taste. I was happy with the smaller 224 cam but the top end screamer 238 was a blast as well (in my 346) but was kind of a pain to drive sometimes. You couldn't just step on the gas if you needed a blast of power, you had to know what rpm you were at and shift accordingly. But with a smaller cam you could just leave it in 6th and step on the gas and pass someone with ease. Rolling someone you always have to be in the right gear and rpm so it doesnt matter your shifting anyway.
Maybe a good option would be to use the heads/intake/elbow/tb, and put a tamer cam in it.
07-28-2009, 12:35 PM
#4
TECH Senior Member
No not really since that cam is well within the parameters of that intake. Elbow TBs suck.
You have one of the best intakes on ur GTO (LS6), what you could do is swap heads and get a proper cam for it + port TB/headers etc...
GTOs are heavy and benefit more from smaller cam that have trq comming on early in the 3000 rpm range.
You have one of the best intakes on ur GTO (LS6), what you could do is swap heads and get a proper cam for it + port TB/headers etc...
GTOs are heavy and benefit more from smaller cam that have trq comming on early in the 3000 rpm range.
07-28-2009, 12:45 PM
#5
No not really since that cam is well within the parameters of that intake. Elbow TBs suck.
You have one of the best intakes on ur GTO (LS6), what you could do is swap heads and get a proper cam for it + port TB/headers etc...
GTOs are heavy and benefit more from smaller cam that have trq comming on early in the 3000 rpm range.
You have one of the best intakes on ur GTO (LS6), what you could do is swap heads and get a proper cam for it + port TB/headers etc...
GTOs are heavy and benefit more from smaller cam that have trq comming on early in the 3000 rpm range.
Is that because of the smaller cubes? When i was planning out my combo with BES, i was told i would be fine with an elbow/tb combination.
The whole idea is to just enjoy the parts that i already have, and buy as few parts as possible. The reason i was wanting to use the Vic Jr intake was i figured it would have considerably better top end than the LS6 intake does.
07-28-2009, 12:58 PM
#6
TECH Senior Member
Is that what you want? just top end? because it lacks in midrange what it makes on top and for a street car undercurve power is where it is at IMO
But if you feel you will like the single plane better you might want to consider a 4brl TB with direct flow instead of elbow. You would be ammazed how much you would gain from just that swap.
The single plane will need sharper dif gears to get you in that powerband quicker as well.
As I said the LS6 is the model from which all composite intake to date are modelled on. It is one of the best pieces for street.
But if you feel you will like the single plane better you might want to consider a 4brl TB with direct flow instead of elbow. You would be ammazed how much you would gain from just that swap.
The single plane will need sharper dif gears to get you in that powerband quicker as well.
As I said the LS6 is the model from which all composite intake to date are modelled on. It is one of the best pieces for street.
07-28-2009, 01:30 PM
#7
Is that what you want? just top end? because it lacks in midrange what it makes on top and for a street car undercurve power is where it is at IMO
But if you feel you will like the single plane better you might want to consider a 4brl TB with direct flow instead of elbow. You would be ammazed how much you would gain from just that swap.
The single plane will need sharper dif gears to get you in that powerband quicker as well.
As I said the LS6 is the model from which all composite intake to date are modelled on. It is one of the best pieces for street.
But if you feel you will like the single plane better you might want to consider a 4brl TB with direct flow instead of elbow. You would be ammazed how much you would gain from just that swap.
The single plane will need sharper dif gears to get you in that powerband quicker as well.
As I said the LS6 is the model from which all composite intake to date are modelled on. It is one of the best pieces for street.
Once this goes back onto my 418 i may consider a 4brl TB if its really that big of an advantage.
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07-28-2009, 02:10 PM
#8
TECH Senior Member
Better for street IMO, single plane is for 4500+rpm benefits (if that is what you like)
It also depends on the shape of the elbow.
Here is a link with good info:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-change-2.html
It also depends on the shape of the elbow.
Here is a link with good info:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-change-2.html
07-28-2009, 03:01 PM
#9
Better for street IMO, single plane is for 4500+rpm benefits (if that is what you like)
It also depends on the shape of the elbow.
Here is a link with good info:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-change-2.html
It also depends on the shape of the elbow.
Here is a link with good info:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-change-2.html
