Racer's Lounge - Michael Vick signs with the EAGLES!!!

Will Michael Vick fit in with the Eagles? Yet to be seen...

http://sports.yahoo.com/sportsminute;_ylt=AkHzhZ9urODh.DTlPDeGtlc5nYcB Gotta love Ashley too in this yahoo vid...:hump:

What a slap in the face to Donavon Mcnabb by signing Vick.. I think the Philly fans will chew up Vick. Couple INT's and he will get raped..

Well hai there yesterday's news

Better late then never..

It's reported Mcnabb and Vick are good friends.

Maybe the fit will work out, who frigg'n knows?

Does he really deserve to be allowed to play again?

These guys need to follow rules.

I do not like the Eagles but feel I may root for them cause I wanna see Vick succeed. Now I wish all the haters would let it go already. He's done the crime and his time so get a life and leave it alone.

Does he really deserve to be allowed to play again?

These guys need to follow rules.

completely agree. stallworth was suspended a year for killin someone, and then after he will be re-instated. he shouldnt be allowed to play ball ever again. these idiotic atheletes just dont seem to get it. what a waste of talent.

as for the vick situation, i have a feelin its gonna tear up the team. mcnabb is gonna have to produce now. and i dont think any average qbs in the league would be comfortable having to look over their shoulder and seein vick waiting for his chance. once mcnabb starts playin like crap, philly fans are gonna start calling for his head and for vick to start. i believe mcnabbs contract ends this year. so having vick their just in case he doesnt come back, is a good back up plan. we will see how it plays out.

I do not like the Eagles but feel I may root for them cause I wanna see Vick succeed. Now I wish all the haters would let it go already. He's done the crime and his time so get a life and leave it alone.

seriously right......there are 30-35 other NFL teams out there to talk about lol.

For the people that say they shouldn't be allowed to work again -

I don't know why a crime should have anything to do with your work profession? Michael Vick and Stallworth both committed crimes and worked it out thru the judicial system, they both won't do it again and they both served their time.

Now why should they not be allowed to work at their profession after this? That's like saying you committed a crime, got punished for it, served your time. Now you shouldn't be allowed to every work at your current job again because you did it. How would you feel about that? I understand they are roll models, but come on.. Give them a second chance at working and making money, no?

completely agree. stallworth was suspended a year for killin someone, and then after he will be re-instated. he shouldnt be allowed to play ball ever again. these idiotic atheletes just dont seem to get it. what a waste of talent.

Yup it's amazing. Play a game, get paid millions, keep your mouth shut and act like a good person. How hard is that? Derek Jeter can do it in the hardest city to be an athlete...everyone should act like that guy, he's the mold of what every pro athlete should model themselves. (except for dating mariah haha)

Let's keep the politics of the situation out of it. The conversation has been had here before, it's tired and old.

As far as the football angle, he's not going to step in and replace McNabb. He'll most likely be used in a sort of wildcat, '08 Miami-ish offensive style. Him and Westbrook will work out well there. Didn't somebody actually bring up Vick going to Philly in the other thread?

Vick is use to being a starter.. Like I said I wonder how this is going to work out for him. He may get frusterated in that type of roll..

He's not gonna get frustrated. He's happy that he has a second chance and I think he is humble enough to know that. I just laugh at the people who say he should never be allowed to play again.

Vick is use to being a starter.. Like I said I wonder how this is going to work out for him. He may get frusterated in that type of roll..

Lol, he's no going to be "frusterated" at all. He's lucky to be back in the NFL. And he couldn't start even if he wanted to. If he went around demanding a starting position he'd be laughed straight into the CFL.

As far as the football angle, he's not going to step in and replace McNabb. He'll most likely be used in a sort of wildcat, '08 Miami-ish offensive style. Him and Westbrook will work out well there. Didn't somebody actually bring up Vick going to Philly in the other thread?

Very well said. Vick fits their style offense well. I wouldnt be suprised to see him and Mcnabb on the field at the same time for misdirection and trick plays. Vick is a backup that can come into a game and win games and produce unlike alot of other backups. This is a good addition for the eagles

Mcnabb when healthy is still probably a better quarterback then Michael Vick..

Mcnabb when healthy is still probably a better quarterback then Michael Vick..

"Probably"? Do you know as little about football as you do about MMA?

what the fuck

Mcnabb when healthy is still probably a better quarterback then Michael Vick..

McNabb with two broken legs and 9 fractured fingers is a better QB than Vick.


I was surprised to hear this as well, especially with a QB like McNabb on the roster. I'm not taking anything away from Vick because I still think he's got a lot of talent, but I thought for sure he'd go to a team hurting for a QB.

I'm sure Vick will line up wide and in the backfield, or at quarterback with McNabb in the backfield. I doubt he's ever on the field without McNabb.

I'm glad he got a second chance. I agree that he'll likely be used for his speed to compliment McNabb and make the defense guess at what is coming. As far as him starting I doubt it unless McNabb gets hurt. I never understood why Vick was a quarterback instead of a running back but thats a different discussion.

For the people that say they shouldn't be allowed to work again -

I don't know why a crime should have anything to do with your work profession? Michael Vick and Stallworth both committed crimes and worked it out thru the judicial system, they both won't do it again and they both served their time.

Now why should they not be allowed to work at their profession after this? That's like saying you committed a crime, got punished for it, served your time. Now you shouldn't be allowed to every work at your current job again because you did it. How would you feel about that? I understand they are roll models, but come on.. Give them a second chance at working and making money, no?

i just feel that if u set an example with these players and not let them play again then maybe future generations will smarten up and not follow in their same paths. probably not, but its worth a try. and this includes all sports, not just football. these players are all receiving special privileges.

and some ppl are forgetten that vick isnt gonna start playin until maybe the 6th week of the season and only if goodell decides he wants to reinstate him. besides the guy is almost 30 years old. I say he has about another 4 or 5 good years left in him. if he is lucky, someone will let him start, but i doubt it. but they are alot of crappy teams in the nfl without a decent qb. i agree with some that stated he could be used in the wildcat formation or maybe as a reciever or runner. he is quick and talented enough to do that. its gonna be an interesting year for the eagles.

I'm glad he got a second chance. I agree that he'll likely be used for his speed to compliment McNabb and make the defense guess at what is coming. As far as him starting I doubt it unless McNabb gets hurt. I never understood why Vick was a quarterback instead of a running back but thats a different discussion.

Because speed doesnt make you a running back....thats why.

I never understood why Vick was a quarterback instead of a running back but thats a different discussion.

Because he can't take the hits that a true running back takes.. Vick has been prone to the injuries in the past on big hits running the ball.. He even has been quoted saying "his body just can't take the beating of a full time running back"..

Are the Eagles a better team with him, I would think so.. He's a wild card type of player that's for sure..

I predicted this in another Mike Vick thread that was closed down.... I must be a football guru!

I predicted this in another Mike Vick thread that was closed down.... I must be a football guru!

What? You predicted Vick would sign with the Eagles? If so you are a guru or extremely lucky and should play the lotto...:cheers:

What? You predicted Vick would sign with the Eagles? If so you are a guru or extremely lucky and should play the lotto...:cheers:

Yeah it was in a Mike Vick thread that closed down. I've been searching for it the last few days and I guess the whole thread was taken down.

I thought he'd be a good addition as far as improving how productive we would be in the red zone. I'm sure the mods could pull the thread up as I was gonna link to it to show my football genius!

Yeah it was in a Mike Vick thread that closed down. I've been searching for it the last few days and I guess the whole thread was taken down.

I thought he'd be a good addition as far as improving how productive we would be in the red zone. I'm sure the mods could pull the thread up as I was gonna link to it to show my football genius!

I may just have to PM you during the regular season for some NFL picks.. Good job.. Win me some money and I'll send you a few bucks back via paypal... Do we have a Deal?

I may just have to PM you during the regular season for some NFL picks.. Good job.. Win me some money and I'll send you a few bucks back via paypal...Deal?

Deal! I'll take 65%..

Deal! I'll take 65%..

Now your getting gready. You would have to be 100% accurate on all your picks for me to cough up 65% of my winnings. Use your reasoning Leonitus...

I got bills to pay for gods sake!!!:secret2:

As a Philly fan, I'm excited to see what he can add to the team. I do not want to see him stay long though.

I'm a Cowboy fan... Even with Vic the Cowboys are still going to win that division most likely.

Philly needs have open try outs again and resign Vince Papali:)

I'm a Cowboy fan... Even with Vic the Cowboys are still going to win that division most likely.

Philly needs have open try outs again and resign Vince Papali:)

doesn't matter if they win the division, they still have to win a playoff game :engarde:

doesn't matter if they win the division, they still have to win a playoff game :engarde:

True, true and very true...Tony Romo Homo is grown up now though, I think he is now mature as a quarterback and won't make those same playoff mistakes of the past....Tony Romo also dumped Jessica Simpson because she was throwing off his game and gaining too much weight. He has a clear head now and it will show..This year will be better for the Boys and Romo watch..

True, true and very true...Tony Romo Homo is grown up now though, I think he is now mature as a quarterback and won't make those same playoff mistakes of the past....Tony Romo also dumped Jessica Simpson because she was throwing off his game and gaining too much weight. He has a clear head now and it will show..This year will be better for the Boys and Romo watch..

I see you will need much help in the area of football!

Cowboys win the division? This is a two horse race (Giants, Eagles) with the Redskins and Cowboys fighting not to be dead last. With the NFC East playing the AFC West this year (raiders,cheifs,broncos) will be tough wins for the cowboys without T.O pulling coverage off Whitten.

At best the Cowboys will go 2-6 in the east and 2-2 against the AFC west.


at Tampa is a loss 0-1
Home against the Giants 0-2
Home against Carolina 0-3
at Denver 1-3
at Chiefs 2-3
Home vs Atlanta 2-4
Home vs Seattle 3-4
at Philly 3-5 and the halfway point
at Green Bay (late in the season) 3-6
Home vs Washington 4-6 (this really depends on if Portis is healthy and Todd Collins is playing well.
Home against Oakland (upset for the Raiders) 4-7
at Giants (remember late in the season) 4-8
Home against San Diego who is probably pushing for the playoffs 4-9
at New Orleans..... wow 4-10

Time for the late season collapse ...losing to Philly again and Washington.

I see you will need much help in the area of football!

Cowboys win the division? This is a two horse race (Giants, Eagles) with the Redskins and Cowboys fighting not to be dead last. With the NFC East playing the AFC West this year (raiders,cheifs,broncos) will be tough wins for the cowboys without T.O pulling coverage off Whitten.

At best the Cowboys will go 2-6 in the east and 2-2 against the AFC west.


at Tampa is a loss 0-1
Home against the Giants 0-2
Home against Carolina 0-3
at Denver 1-3
at Chiefs 2-3
Home vs Atlanta 2-4
Home vs Seattle 3-4
at Philly 3-5 and the halfway point
at Green Bay (late in the season) 3-6
Home vs Washington 4-6 (this really depends on if Portis is healthy and Todd Collins is playing well.
Home against Oakland (upset for the Raiders) 4-7
at Giants (remember late in the season) 4-8
Home against San Diego who is probably pushing for the playoffs 4-9
at New Orleans..... wow 4-10

Time for the late season collapse ...losing to Philly again and Washington.

You think? I have to disagree, TO wasn't even demanding a double team in coverages towards the end of the last year. Whitten will still get open, and the other elete wide recievers will make up for TO's absense.. I look for WR Antonio Bryant to actually have a break out year.

Dallas has a very solid defense, very good linebacking core, Roy Williams will be healthy and in the back field laying people out. They have a strong and big offensive line that will open holes for running backs to comlement the passing game, they have a good receiving core, one of the best tightends in football (Whitten), a potential hall of fame quarterback in Romo.

I see the boys actually doing very well this year. Better then last year..They will beat the aging Giants and Eagles that you are calling 1 and 2 in the division..:cheers:

You think? I have to disagree, TO wasn't even demanding a double team in coverages towards the end of the last year. Whitten will still get open, and the other elete wide recievers will make up for TO's absense.. I look for WR Antonio Bryant to actually have a break out year.

Dallas has a very solid defense, very good linebacking core, Roy Williams will be healthy and in the back field laying people out. They have a strong and big offensive line that will open holes for running backs to comlement the passing game, they have a good receiving core, one of the best tightends in football (Whitten), a potential hall of fame quarterback in Romo.

I see the boys actually doing very well this year. Better then last year..They will beat the aging Giants and Eagles that you are calling 1 and 2 in the division..:cheers:
Like they say, ignorance is bliss. Eagles and Giants are going to be in a battle for first. If the O line for Philly was 100%, I'd say Eagles hands down. But right now their O line is at 40%. Hope the 3 guys in there for injuries can get the job done as well as the guys they're replacing could.

Like they say, ignorance is bliss. Eagles and Giants are going to be in a battle for first. If the O line for Philly was 100%, I'd say Eagles hands down. But right now their O line is at 40%. Hope the 3 guys in there for injuries can get the job done as well as the guys they're replacing could.

Depending on how deep we go on the depth chart @ WR an DB i think picking up Jon Runyan as insurance would be a good move. The biggest question is how will Westbrook preform after missing the entire preseason.

Just another reason to hate the Eagles. If I were convicted of a felony and served 23 months, my career would be done. I'd be happy to be working at McDonalds, but I think even Mickey'Ds runs background checks.

Sorry, not feeling the forgiveness, and I think the eagles are going to be no better with him, than without him. I doubt he'll see more than 10 plays a game.

I see you will need much help in the area of football!

Cowboys win the division? This is a two horse race (Giants, Eagles) with the Redskins and Cowboys fighting not to be dead last. With the NFC East playing the AFC West this year (raiders,cheifs,broncos) will be tough wins for the cowboys without T.O pulling coverage off Whitten.

At best the Cowboys will go 2-6 in the east and 2-2 against the AFC west.


at Tampa is a loss 0-1
Home against the Giants 0-2
Home against Carolina 0-3
at Denver 1-3
at Chiefs 2-3
Home vs Atlanta 2-4
Home vs Seattle 3-4
at Philly 3-5 and the halfway point
at Green Bay (late in the season) 3-6
Home vs Washington 4-6 (this really depends on if Portis is healthy and Todd Collins is playing well.
Home against Oakland (upset for the Raiders) 4-7
at Giants (remember late in the season) 4-8
Home against San Diego who is probably pushing for the playoffs 4-9
at New Orleans..... wow 4-10

Time for the late season collapse ...losing to Philly again and Washington.

+1000 man, except you mean Cambell instead of Collins right? Anyway agreed 100%.

True, true and very true...Tony Romo Homo is grown up now though, I think he is now mature as a quarterback and won't make those same playoff mistakes of the past....Tony Romo also dumped Jessica Simpson because she was throwing off his game and gaining too much weight. He has a clear head now and it will show..This year will be better for the Boys and Romo watch..

I always look forward each season to hear the new excuse for why Dallas didn't play well last year but will rule the league this year. There is one for every season, and every season they blow it.

So Romo is a big boy now, and dumping the girl will allow him to focus on the game? Ok got it.

I see you will need much help in the area of football!

Cowboys win the division? This is a two horse race (Giants, Eagles) with the Redskins and Cowboys fighting not to be dead last. With the NFC East playing the AFC West this year (raiders,cheifs,broncos) will be tough wins for the cowboys without T.O pulling coverage off Whitten.

At best the Cowboys will go 2-6 in the east and 2-2 against the AFC west.


at Tampa is a loss 0-1
Home against the Giants 0-2
Home against Carolina 0-3
at Denver 1-3
at Chiefs 2-3
Home vs Atlanta 2-4
Home vs Seattle 3-4
at Philly 3-5 and the halfway point
at Green Bay (late in the season) 3-6
Home vs Washington 4-6 (this really depends on if Portis is healthy and Todd Collins is playing well.
Home against Oakland (upset for the Raiders) 4-7
at Giants (remember late in the season) 4-8
Home against San Diego who is probably pushing for the playoffs 4-9
at New Orleans..... wow 4-10

Time for the late season collapse ...losing to Philly again and Washington.

This may be a bit on the extreme side...I don't see Dallas doing that bad. They always come out of the gate hot and then stall after mid season, completely falling apart in december. So I say that when they meet with Philly for the first matchup, they'll have a good record, but that game may be a turning point for the worst.

Granted, their past season performances were all with T.O. leading the receiver corps, now that he's gone they may well do much worse.

Romo is not now, nor will he ever be the leader that team needs. He is not an Aikman or Stallbach.

I definitely see Philly and NYG as the leaders of the East. Though both teams leave me with doubts...at this point I don't see either making the big game. NYG has all kinds of expectations to live up to, and I hope they do...and Philly has that little spark that could ignite into a wildfire performance this year. Or both could fall apart midseason and not even make the playoffs. That's the east for you.

So Romo is a big boy now, and dumping the girl will allow him to focus on the game? Ok got it.

Romo is not now, nor will he ever be the leader that team needs. He is not an Aikman or Stallbach.

Not exactly I agree, I do think Romo is still maturing as a quarterback and his career can't be difined just yet and or compared to retired former QB hall of famers. He's really still just a kid in the NFL when you think about it. Being compared to Rodger Staubach or Troy Aikman isn't fair..

Keep in mind Aikman had the best offensive line in football at the time, he also had mad protection and time to throw that pig skin.. Aikman was not nearly as mobile as Romo is (hense all his career ending concusions) but Aikman was very very accurate throwing the ball when given time.. Aikman also had Emmit Smith and Michael Irving whom are both hall of famers. Rodger Staubach was much like Tony Romo is now actually, very mobile and is able to create plays when they are not there.. Maybe Rodger had a little better throwing arm from what I remember. Again, Rodger Staubach also had a hell of team back then to complement him and his game.

Give Romo some more time as he is not done yet, and either are dem Cowboys.. That owner Jones is absolutely the most committed owner in the NFL to winning and that's what they will do...Watch!!

Not exactly I agree, I do think Romo is still maturing as a quarterback and his career can't be difined just yet and or compared to retired former QB hall of famers. He's really still just a kid in the NFL when you think about it. Being compared to Rodger Staubach or Troy Aikman isn't fair..

Keep in mind Aikman had the best offensive line in football at the time, he also had mad protection and time to throw that pig skin.. Aikman was not nearly as mobile as Romo is (hense all his career ending concusions) but Aikman was very very accurate throwing the ball when given time.. Aikman also had Emmit Smith and Michael Irving whom are both hall of famers. Rodger Staubach was much like Tony Romo is now actually, very mobile and is able to create plays when they are not there.. Maybe Rodger had a little better throwing arm from what I remember. Again, Rodger Staubach also had a hell of team back then to complement him and his game.

Romo has had (up until this year at least) one hell of a team to work with. He had arguably even more talent than Aikman did at his disposal. He couldn't make use of it, and as a result, they are where they are. Now they have lost several key stars, and will have to work alot harder to get any further than they have been.

What I was saying about Romo is that it doesn't matter how much time you give him...you have seen from him what you are going to get. He's not showing "promise" anymore. He has lived up to his potential, it's just not as high as dallas fans would like, therefore they keep saying things like "wait you'll see". He's a good QB, that's it...nothing more, nothing less.

Watch your beagle, Vick is an Eagle.

This is the oddest turn of events ever. I used to play as the eagles with Vick as my back up in the 2k football games. I rushed too much with the qb's, so usually one was injured. Weird that came true.

Romo has had (up until this year at least) one hell of a team to work with. He had arguably even more talent than Aikman did at his disposal. He couldn't make use of it, and as a result, they are where they are. Now they have lost several key stars, and will have to work alot harder to get any further than they have been.

What I was saying about Romo is that it doesn't matter how much time you give him...you have seen from him what you are going to get. He's not showing "promise" anymore. He has lived up to his potential, it's just not as high as dallas fans would like, therefore they keep saying things like "wait you'll see". He's a good QB, that's it...nothing more, nothing less.

Well, I hope your wrong. We will see about dem boys this year. Romo to the pro bowl this year, don't be suprised.....

im glad hes back, and given a second chance. theres people getting DUIs, shooting themselves, etc. and people act like Vick (b/c he was high profile) is the scum of the league. they all need to get their act together, and by THEY i mean those 250 reports we hear daily of someone fucking arou d outside of the game. Roger's stand is really going to turn things around, and i think hes only gonna get stiffer on his policies. i hope we see a bunch of flea flickers to draw in safety and let vick do what he does best, the deep ball. little toss and fake run and let 'em rip a 60 yeard bomb.

Watch your beagle, Vick is an Eagle.

:lol never heard that.

Vick's first tryout.. Good friends with Mcnabb

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/eagles/2009-08-16-vick-mcnabb_N.htm?csp=34

Vick on 60 minutes last night... I say Michael Vick deserves a second chance after watching this interview.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1028-Pet-News-Examiner~y2009m8d17-Michael-Vick-on-60-Minutes--It-sickens-me-to-my-stomach-I-cried

get your Popcorn ready!!!!


NFC east will be a toss up this year between the Eagles and Giants. im sorry but i dont see the Cowgirls or the redskins having better than a .500 record this season and Neither one will make the playoffs.

baring any serious injuries (aside from what we've suffered allready with Bradley and a few others) i think the Birds are a little better than the Giants on both sides of the ball..but we'll see.

my prediction:

Eagles- 11-5
Giants- 10-6
Cowboys- 8-8
Redskins- 5-11

Eagles- 11-5
Giants- 10-6
Cowboys- 8-8
Redskins- 5-11

This is much closer to what I see as a possible reality. I give the girls and skins both one more win and the Giants and Eagles records could be interchanged I think. Either one could take the division looking from this far out.

This is much closer to what I see as a possible reality. I give the girls and skins both one more win and the Giants and Eagles records could be interchanged I think. Either one could take the division looking from this far out.


Alot people have crystal balls on this thread.. Where do I find one of those?:cheers:

Alot people have crystal balls on this thread.. Where do I find one of those?:cheers:

has nothing to do with the crystal ball...the ball says the Eagles win the superbowl...but that means nothing. its just based on what teams have done in the offseason and quite frankly, aside from getting rid of TO, the cowboys have done very little to improove on last years team. getting rid of TO is actually a huge loss i would think. aside from his antics, he's a tremendous playmaker. washington is in limbo...they blew their load on 1 player and did nothing to improove on the offense side of the ball. Giants havent done much either but they were an ok team last year so we'll see what happens. the Birds are the only team in the division that made improovements across the board. if both Mcnabb and Westbrook can stay healthy for most of the season, its gonna be scary. westbrook is healthy going into a season for the first time since 05 and everyone knows what he can do when he's healthy. again...all speculation on our parts and there;s a reason they go out every sunday and play the games.....but we;ll see.

Speed kills. I see the eagles doing fairly well this season. Vick is a threat no matter what, so gameplanning will be a huge factor. Backfield with Mcnabb, Westbrook, and Vick with Maclin in the slot for end-arounds... Watch out.

I heard that Vick was going to be the eagles punter....he already perfected the pooch kick

I heard that Vick was going to be the eagles punter....he already perfected the pooch kick

Nice. Now there's one I haven't heard yet. :headbang:

Speed kills. I see the eagles doing fairly well this season. Vick is a threat no matter what, so gameplanning will be a huge factor. Backfield with Mcnabb, Westbrook, and Vick with Maclin in the slot for end-arounds... Watch out.

Don't forget about Deshawn Jackson

The only reason McNabbs stats look good is because he has a guy like westbrook that can turn a 5 yard pass into a 70-yd TD run.....He is not the best pocket qb in the nfl or his division for that matter and he has abandoned one of his greatest assests in running with the ball. Until he can win a big game and get his team a ring he will be the same to me as Tony Romo.

All this talk about Vick and he may not even make the roster in training camp, as far as we know.

I heard that Vick was going to be the eagles punter....he already perfected the pooch kick

lmao...thats a good one.

The only reason McNabbs stats look good is because he has a guy like westbrook that can turn a 5 yard pass into a 70-yd TD run.....He is not the best pocket qb in the nfl or his division for that matter and he has abandoned one of his greatest assests in running with the ball. Until he can win a big game and get his team a ring he will be the same to me as Tony Romo.

All this talk about Vick and he may not even make the roster in training camp, as far as we know.

:huh:

Do you even watch football? McNabb has been a great QB since 2000 (drafted in 1999) before anyone even heard of Westbrook. The only reason Peyton Manning is a good QB is because he has WR's like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, or Tom Brady has Randy Moss (yeah Tom was great b4 Moss) but apparently someone's stats before Westbrook arrived are lost on you.

In 2000 he lead the Eagles in Rushing and was 18th in the league in passing. Westbrook wasn't part of the team.

In 2001 he finished 7th in the league in passing and was the 49th best rushing in the league... oh yeah still no Westbrook

In 2002 he was tied for 7th in passing and was 35 in rushing (avg 7.3)... Westbrook ... uh no!

You football knowledge is FAIL!

Ahh Football discussion right up my alley!

Just to be clear, I am a Steelers fan, I've been following football all of my life, I have no biases or hate of the Eagles, I have friends that went to VA Tech and players that I knew and played with in H.S. that played at Va Tech as well.

I think this is a dumb move by the Eagles for several reasons:

Mike Vick was an athlete, not a QB.

He could not read a defense to save his life, Defensive Coordinators saw this and found out that he could not throw when scrambling to his right. He wasn't that accurate on the run when he was running to his left. He was still running the option with Warrick Dunn after being in the league for more than 5 seasons, he never got comfortable with a pro-style offense.

The Eagles run a timing base West Coast Offense or WCO, this is based on accuracy from a QB, Vick was in the WCO with Jim Mora, looked how that turned out - horrible, he has no accuracy, makes poor decisions and relied on his wheels to gain yards. How much of that is still there after being in prison/away from the game in 23 months?

Look at Roddy White, wr for the Falcons, 2 seasons with Vick, horrible stats, TDs etc, 2 seasons without Vick huge stats, one of those seasons was with 3 different QBs.

I am all up for giving someone a second chance, that's not what this post is about, I am just tired of everyone treating Vick like he was the second coming of Johnny Unitas. He wasn't that good of a QB before, 23 months in Jail probably mad him worse, and on top of that, who knows when Goddell will let him play.

:huh:

Do you even watch football? McNabb has been a great QB since 2000 (drafted in 1999) before anyone even heard of Westbrook. The only reason Peyton Manning is a good QB is because he has WR's like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, or Tom Brady has Randy Moss (yeah Tom was great b4 Moss) but apparently someone's stats before Westbrook arrived are lost on you.

In 2000 he lead the Eagles in Rushing and was 18th in the league in passing. Westbrook wasn't part of the team.

In 2001 he finished 7th in the league in passing and was the 49th best rushing in the league... oh yeah still no Westbrook

In 2002 he was tied for 7th in passing and was 35 in rushing (avg 7.3)... Westbrook ... uh no!

You football knowledge is FAIL!

Yet the most important stat is zero superbowls.......and between 2000-2002 he had 31 interceptions and 21 fumbles and in 2008 he only rushed for 147 measly yards!

Ahh Football discussion right up my alley!

Just to be clear, I am a Steelers fan, I've been following football all of my life, I have no biases or hate of the Eagles, I have friends that went to VA Tech and players that I knew and played with in H.S. that played at Va Tech as well.

I think this is a dumb move by the Eagles for several reasons:

Mike Vick was an athlete, not a QB.

He could not read a defense to save his life, Defensive Coordinators saw this and found out that he could not throw when scrambling to his right. He wasn't that accurate on the run when he was running to his left. He was still running the option with Warrick Dunn after being in the league for more than 5 seasons, he never got comfortable with a pro-style offense.

The Eagles run a timing base West Coast Offense or WCO, this is based on accuracy from a QB, Vick was in the WCO with Jim Mora, looked how that turned out - horrible, he has no accuracy, makes poor decisions and relied on his wheels to gain yards. How much of that is still there after being in prison/away from the game in 23 months?

Look at Roddy White, wr for the Falcons, 2 seasons with Vick, horrible stats, TDs etc, 2 seasons without Vick huge stats, one of those seasons was with 3 different QBs.

I am all up for giving someone a second chance, that's not what this post is about, I am just tired of everyone treating Vick like he was the second coming of Johnny Unitas. He wasn't that good of a QB before, 23 months in Jail probably mad him worse, and on top of that, who knows when Goddell will let him play.

I agree with you 100%. but you're still thinkin that the Eagles picked him up to be a back up or the QB of the future. this is not the case. they picked him up for gimmick plays and Wildcat formation stuff. he'll come in 3-5 plays a game to try and get something going.
later on in the year if he does well and birds will pick up the option for his second year and when someone comes knocking, they'll trade him away for a couple draft picks...the end.
there is no possible way this can hurt us if you look at it from a football stand point....forget the politics, thats a whole other story. he's gonna have a role thats basically that of a very fast receiver comin in to run the option...i dont see anything else materializing from that.
Hes a 53% career completion QB which is horrendous....they didnt pick him up for his QB skills....i assure you of that.

Yet the most important stat is zero superbowls.......and between 2000-2002 he had 31 interceptions and 21 fumbles and in 2008 he only rushed for 147 measly yards!

Remind me again how many Superbowls Dan Marino won? Superbowls are won by great team.. not by any one great player.

I can't believe you brought up interceptions and McNabb in the same sentence. You do realize he is/was the least intercepted QB in nfl history per attempt.

He is the Eagles' all-time leader in career wins, pass attempts, pass completions, passing yards, and passing touchdowns.


NFL Records

Most Consecutive Pass Completions, 24, vs New York Giants,(10), Nov. 28, 2004; vs Green Bay Packers,(14), Dec. 5, 2004

Least Intercepted Quarterback Per Pass Attempt of All Time (4303 attempts-90 interceptions, 2.09%)

Third Best Touchdown to Interception Ratio of All Time (194-90, 2.16) behind Steve Young (232-107, 2.17) and Tom Brady (197-86, 2.29)

One of six quarterbacks of all time to have over 25,000 passing yards and 3,000 rushing yards (alongside Randall Cunningham, Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton, Steve McNair, and John Elway)

Currently the third highest winning percentage among active quarterbacks (82-45-1, .645) behind Peyton Manning (117-59-0, .665) and Tom Brady (87-24-0, .784)

Remind me again how many Superbowls Dan Marino won? Superbowls are won by great team.. not by any one great player.

I can't believe you brought up interceptions and McNabb in the same sentence. You do realize he is/was the least intercepted QB in nfl history per attempt.

He is the Eagles' all-time leader in career wins, pass attempts, pass completions, passing yards, and passing touchdowns.


NFL Records

Most Consecutive Pass Completions, 24, vs New York Giants,(10), Nov. 28, 2004; vs Green Bay Packers,(14), Dec. 5, 2004

Least Intercepted Quarterback Per Pass Attempt of All Time (4303 attempts-90 interceptions, 2.09%)

Third Best Touchdown to Interception Ratio of All Time (194-90, 2.16) behind Steve Young (232-107, 2.17) and Tom Brady (197-86, 2.29)

One of six quarterbacks of all time to have over 25,000 passing yards and 3,000 rushing yards (alongside Randall Cunningham, Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton, Steve McNair, and John Elway)

Currently the third highest winning percentage among active quarterbacks (82-45-1, .645) behind Peyton Manning (117-59-0, .665) and Tom Brady (87-24-0, .784)


Except alot of his interceptions come in the post season

Favre’s teams were in the playoffs four times, appeared in two NFC title games, and had been to one Super Bowl in those first 92 starts.

McNabb’s teams were in the playoffs five times, appeared in four NFC title games, and were also in the Super Bowl once.

Favre was 62-30 in his first 92 starts; McNabb was 63-29.

The main difference between Favre’s reputation then and McNabb’s now is that Favre had a Super Bowl ring and McNabb still doesn’t. It might be pointed out that the New England team that Favre beat in Super Bowl XXXI was nowhere near as good as the one Donovan McNabb lost to in Super Bowl XXXIX. The 1996 Patriots were an 11-5 team that lucked into the Super Bowl when their nemesis, Denver, was upset by Jacksonville in the playoffs. The 2004 Patriots were a 14-2 team that had set every single win streak in NFL history and that manhandled a 15-1 Steelers team at Pittsburgh in the AFC title game.


GMexican you have no idea what you're talking about do you?

all very good points and i agree. unfortunetly now a days most people measure the success of 1 player by the amount of trophies he has in case. unlike most people, including people here in philly, i love Mcnabb and realize what type of player he is/has been through out his career. everyone is so quick to point out the bad loses he suffered in the championship games and in the SB but they fail to realize there's 52 other players on those teams as well. its not all his fault.
he's virtually achieved all those stats stated above not ever having a true number 1 receiver (except for that 1 glorious year) and we all know how far they went that 1 time.
it took Favre and Elway awhile before they finally won one and i beleive Mcnabb's time is coming also.

I agree with you 100%. but you're still thinkin that the Eagles picked him up to be a back up or the QB of the future. this is not the case. they picked him up for gimmick plays and Wildcat formation stuff. he'll come in 3-5 plays a game to try and get something going.
later on in the year if he does well and birds will pick up the option for his second year and when someone comes knocking, they'll trade him away for a couple draft picks...the end.
there is no possible way this can hurt us if you look at it from a football stand point....forget the politics, thats a whole other story. he's gonna have a role thats basically that of a very fast receiver comin in to run the option...i dont see anything else materializing from that.
Hes a 53% career completion QB which is horrendous....they didnt pick him up for his QB skills....i assure you of that.

No, I wasn't thinking/posting about Vick being a QB of the future, I was talking about his efficiency when/if McNabb gets hurt as a number 2 QB.

To have him come in to be in those WildCat packages, he needs to be listed as the number 2 QB, b/c the number 3 QB cannot come out of the game when he is put in.

He won't be listed as a WR, the Eagles have drafted many and have great WR depth, they might not be elite WRs but they are good enough, Vick is not an upgrade over any of them.

The WildCat has been around for more than 50 years, it worked last year for the Dolphins b/c New England wasn't expecting it and their defense is old and wasn't that good. NE runs a base 3-4 with pressure being applied by the LBs, in the NFC East 3 of the 4 defenses run 4-3 with pressure applied by the Defensive Line, Osi, Tuck, in NY and Haynesworth in DC with Orakpo as SLB, let's not forget about Ware in Dallas can all chase down QBs. I highly doubt Vick got any faster or better while away from the NFL.

The Wildcat will not win a championship, quality defenses show up in the playoffs, Baltimore destroyed Miami's wildcat last year, mainly due to Ngata and Reed. NYGiants, 'Skins and Dallas all had top 15 defenses last season.

all very good points and i agree. unfortunetly now a days most people measure the success of 1 player by the amount of trophies he has in case. unlike most people, including people here in philly, i love Mcnabb and realize what type of player he is/has been through out his career. everyone is so quick to point out the bad loses he suffered in the championship games and in the SB but they fail to realize there's 52 other players on those teams as well. its not all his fault.
he's virtually achieved all those stats stated above not ever having a true number 1 receiver (except for that 1 glorious year) and we all know how far they went that 1 time.
it took Favre and Elway awhile before they finally won one and i beleive Mcnabb's time is coming also.

It took Favre 5 seasons to win one championship. Elway didn't win anything until he was demoted to a "Game-Managing" QB and Terrel Davis/Mike Shanahan showed up.

The NFL is a "What have you done for me lately league."

League success is measured by SB titles.

(Remember I am a Steeler fan here) Lynn Swann was a over-rated receiver, Johnny Stallworth had more yards, TDs, Average everything more than Swann, same SBs with 4, but Swann got into the Hall Of Fame before John b/c of his SB MVP.

Chris Carter one of the best WRs to ever play the game, held multiple records for WRs, not in the HOF, though Michael Irvin is, 3 SB titles, not one season did Irvin lead the league in yards, catches etc, but he did get the titles.

There seems to be a current trend in the NFL the past 4 SBs have been won with a Franchise Qb and amazing depth throughout the entire roster to sustain against injuries. The Eagles have been trying to do that with the drafting of the WRs, Shady etc, I just don't believe that if McNabb gets hurt that Vick can lead them to victory over and over again.

Favre’s teams were in the playoffs four times, appeared in two NFC title games, and had been to one Super Bowl in those first 92 starts.

McNabb’s teams were in the playoffs five times, appeared in four NFC title games, and were also in the Super Bowl once.

Favre was 62-30 in his first 92 starts; McNabb was 63-29.

The main difference between Favre’s reputation then and McNabb’s now is that Favre had a Super Bowl ring and McNabb still doesn’t. It might be pointed out that the New England team that Favre beat in Super Bowl XXXI was nowhere near as good as the one Donovan McNabb lost to in Super Bowl XXXIX. The 1996 Patriots were an 11-5 team that lucked into the Super Bowl when their nemesis, Denver, was upset by Jacksonville in the playoffs. The 2004 Patriots were a 14-2 team that had set every single win streak in NFL history and that manhandled a 15-1 Steelers team at Pittsburgh in the AFC title game.


GMexican you have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Very good informative post...Got to give you perks on that one!!!:)


Team sports like football can make it very difficult to judge a player and their careers. If an average player plays in a well structured system he may become or be known as a great player. Much like many of the players that play in New England. The system that Belichick preaches in New England produces great players out of good to average players. Those great players that we hear and know about on the Pats may just be average players on most other teams.

Now who's to say other players on other teams that don't have that type of coaching structure and direction aren't as good as the players on the Patriots for example?

Coaching staff and systems can really define a players career in team sports.

When talking about quarterback play also, one must also consider the game plans of offensive coordinaters on that team, do they play call to that quarterbacks strengths mostly? How is the offensive line holding the rush? Is the line giving that quarterback confidence and enough time to throw the football successfully? How talented is the recieving core on that team? There are so many factors to consider, and for me it's sometimes hard to compare players in team sports because of the systems they play in and the rest of the team and coaching staffs..

No, I wasn't thinking/posting about Vick being a QB of the future, I was talking about his efficiency when/if McNabb gets hurt as a number 2 QB.

To have him come in to be in those WildCat packages, he needs to be listed as the number 2 QB, b/c the number 3 QB cannot come out of the game when he is put in.

He won't be listed as a WR, the Eagles have drafted many and have great WR depth, they might not be elite WRs but they are good enough, Vick is not an upgrade over any of them.

The WildCat has been around for more than 50 years, it worked last year for the Dolphins b/c New England wasn't expecting it and their defense is old and wasn't that good. NE runs a base 3-4 with pressure being applied by the LBs, in the NFC East 3 of the 4 defenses run 4-3 with pressure applied by the Defensive Line, Osi, Tuck, in NY and Haynesworth in DC with Orakpo as SLB, let's not forget about Ware in Dallas can all chase down QBs. I highly doubt Vick got any faster or better while away from the NFL.

The Wildcat will not win a championship, quality defenses show up in the playoffs, Baltimore destroyed Miami's wildcat last year, mainly due to Ngata and Reed. NYGiants, 'Skins and Dallas all had top 15 defenses last season.


.

the 3rd string QB can come in and out of the games just like the 1st and 2nd as long as they are activated for that game, which takes up another roster spot on the team and since most teams dont do it cause they rather have that spot for a lineman...its just unheard of for a team to activate a 3rd stringer at the beginning of any game...makes no sense. but now with Vick....who knows what they're gonna do here.

and i agree with you on the SB thing....SB's defines mostly everyone's career, but not everyone. Marino for 1.

1995
The emergency (third) quarterback may now enter the game in just the fourth quarter, regardless if the other two quarterbacks are able to play.

http://www.sportsattic.com/araig/NflRulesHistory.htm (http://www.sportsattic.com/araig/NflRulesHistory.htm)

1995
The emergency (third) quarterback may now enter the game in just the fourth quarter, regardless if the other two quarterbacks are able to play.

http://www.sportsattic.com/araig/NflRulesHistory.htm (http://www.sportsattic.com/araig/NflRulesHistory.htm)

Post the entire rule....

1995
The emergency (third) quarterback may now enter the game in just the fourth quarter, regardless if the other two quarterbacks are able to play. This means that if the third string quarterback enters the game, the first and/or second quarterback may re-enter, unlike the past two seasons where the emergency quarterback would only play off the first two were unable to resume play.


they can easily list him as the 2nd QB and he can come in and out of the game whenever and IF something happens to Mcnabb and they dont wanna use Vick, put their 3rd string in there which would be Kolb...if it happens in the first 3 quarters than Vick would be sidelined for the rest of the game though if they choose this route.
further more....according to ESPN and the 100's of other sports shows ive been watching regarding this matter, they stated that if the team chooses to activate all 3 QB's, it may do so and they will lose a roster spot which is normally used for extra lineman.

bottom line....Vick doesnt fit into what we're tryin to do so this is all a huge suprise and we'll all just have to sit back and see how old Andy is gonna use him.

Favre’s teams were in the playoffs four times, appeared in two NFC title games, and had been to one Super Bowl in those first 92 starts.

McNabb’s teams were in the playoffs five times, appeared in four NFC title games, and were also in the Super Bowl once.

Favre was 62-30 in his first 92 starts; McNabb was 63-29.

The main difference between Favre’s reputation then and McNabb’s now is that Favre had a Super Bowl ring and McNabb still doesn’t. It might be pointed out that the New England team that Favre beat in Super Bowl XXXI was nowhere near as good as the one Donovan McNabb lost to in Super Bowl XXXIX. The 1996 Patriots were an 11-5 team that lucked into the Super Bowl when their nemesis, Denver, was upset by Jacksonville in the playoffs. The 2004 Patriots were a 14-2 team that had set every single win streak in NFL history and that manhandled a 15-1 Steelers team at Pittsburgh in the AFC title game.


GMexican you have no idea what you're talking about do you?

If you count all his stats Brett Favre has been to the superbowl 2 times he lost one of them to the broncos......your comparing a future hall of famer to a current qb , the fact is Mcnabb isnt top 5 when compared to the qb's in the league today. Heck id take a Drew Breese over him

If you count all his stats Brett Favre has been to the superbowl 2 times he lost one of them to the broncos......your comparing a future hall of famer to a current qb , the fact is Mcnabb isnt top 5 when compared to the qb's in the league today. Heck id take a Drew Breese over him

technically...Favre is still Current. 2ndly, can you honestly compare the team that Brees has/had to what Mcnabb's has/had in his career?? dont get me wrong, Brees is 1 hell of a qb, but he also has awsome receivers. in San diego he had Tomlinson in his prime...that'll pat your stats a little aswell.

technically...Favre is still Current. 2ndly, can you honestly compare the team that Brees has/had to what Mcnabb's has/had in his career?? dont get me wrong, Brees is 1 hell of a qb, but he also has awsome receivers. in San diego he had Tomlinson in his prime...that'll pat your stats a little aswell.

Tomlinson was a work horse running back more than a recevier how would he make a qb's stats look better?

Tomlinson was a work horse running back more than a recevier how would he make a qb's stats look better?

All stats from the skill positions are relevant in American football. A quarterback with such a great running game that Tomlinson provided for so long will benefit because defenses will start to throw seven or eight players in the box, opening up a ton of lanes for receivers to run. Or a wide receiver that plays with another stud receiver will benefit because he won't be doubled as much. A running back like Emmit Smith with a sickeningly good offensive line will put up ridiculous numbers. Etc, etc, etc.

Post the entire rule....

1995
The emergency (third) quarterback may now enter the game in just the fourth quarter, regardless if the other two quarterbacks are able to play. This means that if the third string quarterback enters the game, the first and/or second quarterback may re-enter, unlike the past two seasons where the emergency quarterback would only play off the first two were unable to resume play.


they can easily list him as the 2nd QB and he can come in and out of the game whenever and IF something happens to Mcnabb and they dont wanna use Vick, put their 3rd string in there which would be Kolb...if it happens in the first 3 quarters than Vick would be sidelined for the rest of the game though if they choose this route.
further more....according to ESPN and the 100's of other sports shows ive been watching regarding this matter, they stated that if the team chooses to activate all 3 QB's, it may do so and they will lose a roster spot which is normally used for extra lineman.

bottom line....Vick doesnt fit into what we're tryin to do so this is all a huge suprise and we'll all just have to sit back and see how old Andy is gonna use him.

The 4th qtr is where the rule applies, he cannot come in and out as he chooses except in the 4th qtr.

Espn and all those other talking heads said that Mike Vick would be an incredible punt returner, the guy has never done that in his life, I trust those ass clowns as much as I can throw my 60 in TV. They are still crowning Brady as King Sh!t when he hasn't won a SB in 5 seasons.

It's going to be interesting what Andy does with him, with Dawkins leaving, the MLB being out for the year, Jim Johnson's death, the Defense might take a huge step backwards.

All this happens if Roger reinstates Vick, right now, the Eagles just have him as camp fodder in the mix for a back up QB job.

All stats from the skill positions are relevant in American football. A quarterback with such a great running game that Tomlinson provided for so long will benefit because defenses will start to throw seven or eight players in the box, opening up a ton of lanes for receivers to run. Or a wide receiver that plays with another stud receiver will benefit because he won't be doubled as much. A running back like Emmit Smith with a sickeningly good offensive line will put up ridiculous numbers. Etc, etc, etc.

Exactly.

Tomlinson was a work horse running back more than a recevier how would he make a qb's stats look better?

Tomlinson is great at catching the ball out of the backfield. he averages 55 receptions a year including a 79 reception season in 02 and 100 receptions and 4 touchdowns in 03...both with Brees.

The 4th qtr is where the rule applies, he cannot come in and out as he chooses except in the 4th qtr.

Espn and all those other talking heads said that Mike Vick would be an incredible punt returner, the guy has never done that in his life, I trust those ass clowns as much as I can throw my 60 in TV. They are still crowning Brady as King Sh!t when he hasn't won a SB in 5 seasons.

It's going to be interesting what Andy does with him, with Dawkins leaving, the MLB being out for the year, Jim Johnson's death, the Defense might take a huge step backwards.

All this happens if Roger reinstates Vick, right now, the Eagles just have him as camp fodder in the mix for a back up QB job.

you're right. thats why this is so puzzling.

Tomlinson was a work horse running back more than a recevier how would he make a qb's stats look better?

You seem like a great guy, and I've never had a problem with you, but if you have to ask this question, you shouldn't even be in this discussion.

You seem like a great guy, and I've never had a problem with you, but if you have to ask this question, you shouldn't even be in this discussion.

I would agree... Sort of common knowledge in the NFL world.

I would agree... Sort of common knowledge in the NFL world.

Bingo.

To expand on what Ven has already said...

Having a great running back will always make a Quarterback more successful. If the RB is running well, the defense will have no other option than to load the box. Plain and simple. If the QB is throwing well downfield, the defense will have to adapt and use more nickle-type packages. Therefore, the RB's can use that to their advantage for running lanes, and DB's (for the most part) are not gifted tacklers etc.

Brett Favre will benefit from AP, and AP will likewise benefit from Favre. No matter how old he is, he still has the ablilty to throw the ball downfield, and he has the presence to still force Defensive Coordinators to shove more DB's on the field.

I would agree... Sort of common knowledge in the NFL world.

thats because im a 49er fan and we have one of the best workhorse rb's in the league in Frank Gore......yet that hasnt helped us, of course our lack of recievers and an inconsistent qb and 5 offensive coordinators in the last 5 years is apparent......even if we get a good qb Singeltary loves to play a ball control style offense with a good defense

the minnesota vikings were in a similar situation as well

You seem like a great guy, and I've never had a problem with you, but if you have to ask this question, you shouldn't even be in this discussion.

See Michael Vick in his good years in Atlanta....great running game, but his passing stats were decent

See Michael Vick in his good years in Atlanta

GMmexican, I must say do really even really know who Michael Vick is?

Be honest now, I just had to ask...:)

GMmexican, I must say do really even really know who Michael Vick is?

Be honest now, I just had to ask...:)

Yeah in his best years he had the best running game in the league with the falcons

Bingo.

To expand on what Ven has already said...

Having a great running back will always make a Quarterback more successful. If the RB is running well, the defense will have no other option than to load the box. Plain and simple. If the QB is throwing well downfield, the defense will have to adapt and use more nickle-type packages. Therefore, the RB's can use that to their advantage for running lanes, and DB's (for the most part) are not gifted tacklers etc.

.


Unless you are Kurt Warner and the arizona cardinals offense....they had one of the lowest ranked running games in the nfl, yet they torched our nickel defense with there trio of receivers

See Michael Vick in his good years in Atlanta

Having great passing numbers isn't guaranteed when you have a good running back. It does help though. Vick put up semi-decent numbers with Warrick Dunn in the backfield. If he had a sub-par back, his stats would have suffered. That's a fact. His passing was marginal at best, and he has happy feet.

thats because im a 49er fan and we have one of the best workhorse rb's in the league in Frank Gore......yet that hasnt helped us, of course our lack of recievers and an inconsistent qb and 5 offensive coordinators in the last 5 years is apparent......even if we get a good qb Singeltary loves to play a ball control style offense with a good defense

the minnesota vikings were in a similar situation as well

Well, the 49ers are a totally different subject. They have very inconsistant quarterback play, line play, etc. At about every position, they lack deep talent. Gore could be tearing it up, and he would help QB's very little. There are too many pieces missing.

A thing that will benefit the Vickings is that they have a great defense. If the offense is on the sidelines, you can't score alot of points... But that's a given.

Yeah in his best years he had the best running game in the league with the falcons

When you have a QB running for 70 yards a game, and a running back running for 110, you're going to have the best running game in the league.

That has nothing to do with Warricks impact on the passing game.

Having great passing numbers isn't guaranteed when you have a good running back. It does help though. Vick put up semi-decent numbers with Warrick Dunn in the backfield. If he had a sub-par back, his stats would have suffered. That's a fact. His passing was marginal at best, and he has happy feet.



Well, the 49ers are a totally different subject. They have very inconsistant quarterback play, line play, etc. At about every position, they lack deep talent. Gore could be tearing it up, and he would help QB's very little. There are too many pieces missing.

A thing that will benefit the Vickings is that they have a great defense. If the offense is on the sidelines, you can't score alot of points... But that's a given.


You read my post wrong I wasnt disagreeing with u that a good rb makes a qb seem good, thats common sense (play action,one on one match ups etc.) I just think Breese doesnt depend on his rb as much as he used to.....heck when Bush and McCallister were banged out and missing games with injurys he was still able to manage the saints offense and move the team down field and make great reads with a 3rd string running back.

The vikings are extremely inconsistent on defense , they have a great run d but they are near the bottom in pass defense and everything else.

When you have a QB running for 70 yards a game, and a running back running for 110, you're going to have the best running game in the league.

That has nothing to do with Warricks impact on the passing game.

It does help a defense key in on stopping the falcons offense and closing running lanes/gaps, it forces Vick to try and beat them with his arm....what really kept that offense back was the lack of wide recievers, besides Alge Crumpler

well i bet hes HAPPY! i like 50/50 on him being allowed to play.... but again he was bankrupt so him getting allowed back playing for the Eagles & getting that $$$ contract is a really big second chance. so he better not fuck up again or KICKED ON THE STREETS he goes..

You read my post wrong I wasnt disagreeing with u that a good rb makes a qb seem good, thats common sense (play action,one on one match ups etc.) I just think Breese doesnt depend on his rb as much as he used to.....heck when Bush and McCallister were banged out and missing games with injurys he was still able to manage the saints offense and move the team down field and make great reads with a 3rd string running back.

The vikings are extremely inconsistent on defense , they have a great run d but they are near the bottom in pass defense and everything else.

Drew Brees can be successful without a good running back. But that's because he's a great quarterback though.

It does help a defense key in on stopping the falcons offense and closing running lanes/gaps, it forces Vick to try and beat them with his arm....what really kept that offense back was the lack of wide recievers, besides Alge Crumpler

Their wide recievers were fully capable. Most wide recievers in the league are good enough to have a 1,000 yard season. The reason they were unproductive was because their quarterback was one-dimensional. In any system you do not need superstars split out to be a great offensive team. At Quarterback, though, it is a different story. You don't hear too many people winning with shitty QB's

A good running game compliments the QB position but does not define it.. More defensive players crowd the line and are up in the box, the defense will basically start to cheat to stop the threat of the run. The pass rush is also slowed down to protect and close those gaps at the line. Play action passing is now extremely effective, that will freeze those outside rushers, the defensive secondary may also bite as well..This all works to the QB's advantage.. The deep pass is usually man on man coverage at that point. The QB now has time to throw.. It's now the QB's responsibility to deliver the ball deep, timing man on man side line routs are easy, most passing coverage is weak to average at best. The Quarterback still needs to deliver the ball accurately even in weak coverage. A running quarterback isn't that great of a threat in that situation, his arm should be more of a threat if he has one..

That is what a good running game can do for the quarterback position. I can eleborate more but I will be typing a short story. Those are the main points though..

Emmit did that for Aikman, Marshal Faulk did that for Kurt Warner.. Those are not mobil quarterbacks.. Etc.. Etc.

^^Unless you are the Arizona Cardinals