z28mccrory

iTrader: (7)

After much consideration, a friend of mine and i have decided that we want to trade motors. He wants a NA/Nitrous motor (My 418), and i want a turbo motor (his 408). Rather than each of us trying to part out our set ups and lose money, we think it would be to both of our benefits to just trade with cash adjustment to make things even.

Here is the run down of what each of us have, me with a nitrous motor, him with an unassembled turbo motor.

We are trying to determine a fair amount of cash for him to give me to boot.

My motor has been started and ran through a few heat cycles, but for the sake of the trade, that does not matter. We are basicly treating is as if my motor is new (it basicly is)

We have decided that we want to just trade shortblocks, removing as many of our "own" parts as possible from the deal, and just trading the bare shortblocks.

Here is what i have:
6.0 Iron Block
Eagle Rods
Eagle Crank
Ross Nitrous Pistons
Rings (Whatever BES put in there, taking into mind a big nitrous hit)
Bearings
ARP Main Studs
236/248 .617/.617 Cam

Here is what he has
6.0 Iron Block
Eagle Rods
Eagle Crank
Wiseco Dished Boost Pistons

Basicly the items that i have in favor of him, and will require cash on his part
-My pistons were $1100 custom nitrous pistons (set of 9), whereas his appear to be an off the shelf boost piston
-My block was machined prior to assembly by BES
-Rings
-ARP Main Studs
-Rings
-Cam

I will be giving him my motor as an assembled shortblock, as it is already together, and he will be giving me his motor as an unmachined block (Its machined, just factory machined) with the crank rods and pistons.

I figured we could get some unbiased 3rd party opinions, because neither of us have really put a dollar figure on it yet.

TooLateVTEC

iTrader: (2)

I would say get a quote from a couple machine shops to see what they would charge tomachine it, balance it,a nd assemble it.

Basically he would be giving you the money it would cost to get his stuff into short block form where yours already is...and maybe a little bit for your trick psitons.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Well you cant penalize him because you spent to much on your pistons. The off shelf Wiseco is inexpensive but no less of a piston.

I would go for replacement value of the mainstuds and rings. All else looks about equal unless you paid for assembly? Machining costs should be looked at as well. Tough call, I would price out what it would cost to mahcine the block and add that to the cost of the arps and rings. Then you just need to settle on the pistons and thats a tough call. You spent good money on them but didnt need to so thats an issue. Why should he have to pay for your expensive decision. His Wiseco's are no less of a piston.

93LS1RX7

iTrader: (8)

I would say probably $500 for the machine/assembly cost.

If his doesnt come with a cam add $300

z28mccrory

iTrader: (7)

I paid around $1000 for machine work and assembly if i recall... will have to dig up the invoice.

While i do appreciate your input, i dont think that i spent needless money on the pistons. The decision to go with a custom piston was made when i told BES my plans nitrous wise, and no offence, but they have considerably more experience than you do. While my friend may not have the same plans nitrous wise, he is still getting a piston than can take more abuse than an off the shelf one... plus is getting a 9th piston in case he even hurts a piston.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

It's a matter of application but Wiseco is used in some of the fastest cars you will ever read about. Don't be fooled by price Wiseco is a top notch piston. How much nitrous are you spraying? We use custom Wiseco's all the time and they still don't cost as much (but you did get 9?). We've got a 434 right here that is built for a 400 shot on top.. using Wiseco custom pistons (due to bore size) and they did not cost $1000.

You going to say that HKE does not know what they are doing?

Wiseco offers features for free that others charge for, not saying you don't have a great piston just saying that application comes into play and unless he needed a super expensive piston why would he pay for it? $850 is what we charge for a custom Wiseco so there isn't a huge amount of price difference to begin with but a shelf Wiseco will handle most likely what he is going to spray and is only $600 shipped.

Whats in his best interest might not be whats in yours. I'm just trying to be fair. Shelf Wiseco are used all the time in nitrous cars without issue. We try to advise for best value per application. Maybe he doesn't need your expensive pistons and if so why would he pay for them? Thats the way to look at it. I know you've got money into them but thats not the point. You asked for an opinion from the outside and the way I see it why spend money you don't have to? Nothing personal at all.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

what i see here is a big mess with nobody thats going to be happy in the end.

what i would do in your sitiuation, is trade him your:

assembled shortblock +
400 for the cam
around 250 for the difference in pistons (manily because you have 1 extra and rings)
about 1000 for maching and assembly
and 150 for the main studs.

i think your shortblock and 1800 sounds fair to me...round it up to 2000 if it were me just for going thru this trouble.

or be smart about this sitiuation and just take your pistons out and sell them, and sell the cam and buy ones for a turbo motor....you may lose a few bucks, but you wont take a chance losing a friend over something like this.

z28mccrory

iTrader: (7)

Im not talking down about Wiseco... im refering to a custom piston vs an off the shelf piston. Regardless if he really needs it, its there. Im not looking to even use that as a point for negotiation with him, im simply stating that my pistons cost more than his... so at the end of the day it sweetens the deal a little bit.

I never said anything about HKE... not sure how they got pulled into this I was simply stating that my engine builder just didn't pick those pistons for no reason, he picked them because its what he felt it would take to reliably reach my goals... and that my engine builder has more experience with nitrous than most people in the country.

All BS aside... this is what i think would be a fair deal. Im very curious about opinions on this.

-Blocks - even so no cash adjustment
-Cranks- even so no cash adjustment
-Rods- even so no cash adjustment
-Pistons- no cash adjustment, but he is getting the sweeter end of the deal
-Rings- cash ~$175 per Thunders website
-Bearings - cash ~$140 for main, $99 for rod, $30 for cam
-Main Studs - cash value ~$190
-Cam - cash value for a custom grind - ~$380

Thats right at $1k

The part of it that im not sure about, is getting the block machined and the rotating assembly balanced.

Im also not sure how to value mine being assembled vs his being in pieces.

z28mccrory

iTrader: (7)

Honestly there isn't any drama here. Him and I sat down and did and inventory of what both of us were offering. Both of us are really laid back and easy going, and just want to come up with a deal that is fair for both of us. I dont mind giving a little to make the deal happen, and he seems to have the same mentality.

I didnt want to shoot out an unreasonable number, thats why i figured i would get some outside opinions of how we should handle this. Both of us are very level headed, and no friendship will be jeopardized here.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

HKE is my builder and adviser. If he say's an off the shelf Wiseco is all that is needed then thats what we go with so that is where my advice is coming from. From working with him and using Wiseco in every LS engine we build unless we move to a Diamond for a shelf availability.

We build a 408 short for $4474 using Callies and Wiseco shelf pistons ARP and ACL coated race bearings. Rings are changed for heavier nitrous use but the piston is the same shelf piston whether its a 100 shot or 300 shot.

How much n2o is he going to spray? Does he reall need to drop the coin on expensive pistons regardless if you think they're a perk to the sale or not is all I am saying. You see it different because you were told you needed to spend the money on them.

So thats the dilema... does he need those pistons or would a shelf wiseco do just fine. Good luck

z28mccrory

iTrader: (7)

If you read my above post, you will see that im not trying to get any monatary adjustment out of the pistons... simply stating its a perk. He isn't dropping any money on expensive pistons... i think we have beat that dead horse enough.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

do yourself a favor and call BES and see what they charge to take the pile of parts you have and turn them into an engine, and show him the WRITTEN estimate and go from there with all the other stuff you already figured cash value for.

OUTLAWZ RACING

iTrader: (9)

Boost the 418 what is the compression?

z28mccrory

iTrader: (7)

~10.8 with my 5.3 heads.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

just ditch the 5.3 heads, get a good set of AFR's with big chambers, a custom turbo cam and call it a day.