VRX3 Right for me?
08-26-2009, 10:19 AM
#1
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VRX3 Right for me? First off Ill start with the mods I have:
yank SS3600 stall, FLT level 4 Trans, Pacesetter LT's, Pacesetter ORY, TSP Rumbler cat back, 3.73 gears, Dynotune Nitrous with Nitrous Outlet solenoids, SLP lid and smooth bellow, Engine Stock right now
Mods I have and plan on getting that arn't on the car yet:
TSP CNC ported stage 1 LS6 heads with Trick Flow dual gold springs, LS6 intake with Jantzer ported TB I already have.
Plan on getting, LS7 lifters, LS2 Timing Chain, LS6 ported oil pump, VRX3 Cam from Vengeance, and pushrods and Im sure Im forgetting something.
Anyway I dont make it to the track very often its more a street car/weekend warrior. I is not my DD. I take it on long highway trips and with the gears I have now at 70mph Im turning like 23-2400rpm. So I want there to still be good power there. But I want to to perform on the rare occasion when I do make it to the track. Basically Im looking for 400RWHP. That way when I spray (probably 100 shot) Ill be close to 500.
Vengeance rocommended this cam to me and I was just wanting to hear from people that have had expeirence with it and make sure its a good choice for me. Vengeance said it has a good power band through out and isnt a pain in the *** to drive even if I did want to DD. Sounds good to me lol
Oh and are the springs I have already alright for this cam?
yank SS3600 stall, FLT level 4 Trans, Pacesetter LT's, Pacesetter ORY, TSP Rumbler cat back, 3.73 gears, Dynotune Nitrous with Nitrous Outlet solenoids, SLP lid and smooth bellow, Engine Stock right now
Mods I have and plan on getting that arn't on the car yet:
TSP CNC ported stage 1 LS6 heads with Trick Flow dual gold springs, LS6 intake with Jantzer ported TB I already have.
Plan on getting, LS7 lifters, LS2 Timing Chain, LS6 ported oil pump, VRX3 Cam from Vengeance, and pushrods and Im sure Im forgetting something.
Anyway I dont make it to the track very often its more a street car/weekend warrior. I is not my DD. I take it on long highway trips and with the gears I have now at 70mph Im turning like 23-2400rpm. So I want there to still be good power there. But I want to to perform on the rare occasion when I do make it to the track. Basically Im looking for 400RWHP. That way when I spray (probably 100 shot) Ill be close to 500.
Vengeance rocommended this cam to me and I was just wanting to hear from people that have had expeirence with it and make sure its a good choice for me. Vengeance said it has a good power band through out and isnt a pain in the *** to drive even if I did want to DD. Sounds good to me lol
Oh and are the springs I have already alright for this cam?
08-26-2009, 06:59 PM
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my brother has the vrx3 in his car and it was his daily driver for a while. he put down 396hp and 376 tq, but his is an m6. I liked that cam so much I was planing on getting it for my car, but since its not my daily driver but more of a weekend warrior, Ron from vengance recommended the vrx4. I will be running a similar set up as you too. Good luck.
08-26-2009, 11:43 PM
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I have the VRX4 in my car and have been very pleased with it. My car isn't a daily driver but it could be with no problems. The cam has great street manners and great power through the rpm range. I was thinking about the VRX3 at first but glad I went to the VRX4!
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08-27-2009, 11:52 AM
#9
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How about the valve springs? Are they ok for this cam or are they too much?
Does anyone know the difference between a TSP LS6 ported oil pump and a Melling oil pump?
Does anyone know the difference between a TSP LS6 ported oil pump and a Melling oil pump?
08-27-2009, 01:12 PM
#10
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These are the specs of the 2 cams:
VRX3- 226*-228*-.585”-.588” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3723 = 275*-226*-148*-.344"-.585"
3724 = 277*-228*-149*-.346"-.588"
VRX4- 228*-230*-.588”-.592” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3724 = 277*-228*-149*-.346"-.588"
3725 = 279*-230*-151*-.348"-.592"
From the descriptions you are giving I would get the VRX4 on 112 LSA
8* overlap, fits your stall shift extentions and with Stage 1 243s 62cc (mill) and GM stock gasket, it will hit the numbers you are asking and a bit more.
Only other thing needed is a good tuner to make it all work and purr like a kitten.
Why 112 LSA? Well for overlap and in order not to rev the **** out of it. A4s make best power in the 6400>6500 range.
My2c
VRX3- 226*-228*-.585”-.588” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3723 = 275*-226*-148*-.344"-.585"
3724 = 277*-228*-149*-.346"-.588"
VRX4- 228*-230*-.588”-.592” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3724 = 277*-228*-149*-.346"-.588"
3725 = 279*-230*-151*-.348"-.592"
From the descriptions you are giving I would get the VRX4 on 112 LSA
8* overlap, fits your stall shift extentions and with Stage 1 243s 62cc (mill) and GM stock gasket, it will hit the numbers you are asking and a bit more.
Only other thing needed is a good tuner to make it all work and purr like a kitten.
Why 112 LSA? Well for overlap and in order not to rev the **** out of it. A4s make best power in the 6400>6500 range.
My2c
08-27-2009, 02:17 PM
#11
^ I agree alot of people go with a wide lsa cam(114+) thinking it will be more driveable. yes it will idle smoother, but power peaks higher, with less lowend. a tight lsa cam just needs a lil more idle tuning, but it will bring the power in faster and peak a bit quicker. I vote 112 also, Listen to predatorz he knows his stuff!
08-27-2009, 02:19 PM
#12
No disrespect to Predator, but 114 LSA cams work just fine. People act like there's a 500 rpm difference in the power band. This is not correct. I've seen a maximum of 200rpm.
In most cases, my 114LSA setups make more power everywhere above 2500 rpm than the 112's, idle better, easier to tune, get better gas mileage, and pull harder to redline.
To each his own. I've got a few 114 setups coming up to the dyno soon that will test all these theories everybody keeps throwing around in here.
In most cases, my 114LSA setups make more power everywhere above 2500 rpm than the 112's, idle better, easier to tune, get better gas mileage, and pull harder to redline.
To each his own. I've got a few 114 setups coming up to the dyno soon that will test all these theories everybody keeps throwing around in here.
08-27-2009, 02:37 PM
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If I were you I would get a spartan performance spec'd cam for your set up. Spartan performance will be putting a 400 rwhp package together for me including a custom spec'd cam by josh (damian) that has posted on here, I'am also a a4 car and have the same stall as you, also unless you like your car to be hella loud you might want to go with a hooker catback to quiet it down because after the mods its really gonna be loud ask damian about it i had to sell my tsp exhaust because it was gonna be a pain (loud) with the set up spartan performance spec'd me. hope this helps
08-27-2009, 04:20 PM
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some good info!
Damian: Let me know how those dynos go! Im interested to see how they turn out.
hmorris700: I do plan to eventually replace all my haust. Headers are rusting and I just want all stainless steel exhaust. Im already building this on a budget so it might be a while before I get to exhaust. Im back in school for Wind Energy for a year so it was a shity time to break my car.
PREDATOR-Z: I have a tuner that I have been very satisfied with, so Im very confident he will do a bad *** job as before.
Damian: Let me know how those dynos go! Im interested to see how they turn out.
hmorris700: I do plan to eventually replace all my haust. Headers are rusting and I just want all stainless steel exhaust. Im already building this on a budget so it might be a while before I get to exhaust. Im back in school for Wind Energy for a year so it was a shity time to break my car.
PREDATOR-Z: I have a tuner that I have been very satisfied with, so Im very confident he will do a bad *** job as before.
08-27-2009, 05:51 PM
#17
TECH Senior Member
No disrespect to Predator, but 114 LSA cams work just fine. People act like there's a 500 rpm difference in the power band. This is not correct. I've seen a maximum of 200rpm.
In most cases, my 114LSA setups make more power everywhere above 2500 rpm than the 112's, idle better, easier to tune, get better gas mileage, and pull harder to redline.
To each his own. I've got a few 114 setups coming up to the dyno soon that will test all these theories everybody keeps throwing around in here.
In most cases, my 114LSA setups make more power everywhere above 2500 rpm than the 112's, idle better, easier to tune, get better gas mileage, and pull harder to redline.
To each his own. I've got a few 114 setups coming up to the dyno soon that will test all these theories everybody keeps throwing around in here.
I fail to see where a 114 would out power the same cam on a 112. If that was the case why we don't make it 115 then or 116, simply because you are just pushing the band forward into the rpms and reducing midrange output.
It is a simple IVC Vs EVO relationship.
0.050
228/230
112 LSA
108 ICL
6>IVO
42>IVC
51>EVO
-1>EVC
116>ECL
5>overlap
Vs
0.050
228/230
114 LSA
110 ICL
4>IVO
44>IVC
53>EVO
-3>EVC
118>ECL
1>overlap
And if this were entirely up to me, these are the specs to get even more out of that combo with similar rpm peak but stronger midrange:
0.050
228/230
110 LSA
108 ICL
6>IVO
42>IVC
47>EVO
3>EVC
112>ECL
9>overlap
If that doesn't make more power than the same cam on a 114+4, well I'll eat my shorts (As Bart would put it
) Last edited by PREDATOR-Z; 08-27-2009 at 06:07 PM.
08-27-2009, 10:15 PM
#19
Predator,
If all these overlap theories/strategies worked all the time, we'd be seeing dyno sheets posted every day about how much power they made considering how many cams you & Pat spec out.
Yes, a lower ICL is going to build more cylinder pressure, but it doesn't always make more power. I've had motors that made less power until I lowered cylinder pressures with a different cam. I've used **** tons of cams over the years, and I've been exposed to other shops who've used every cam under the sun over the years. So I know what works. It's really just as simple as that.
If all these overlap theories/strategies worked all the time, we'd be seeing dyno sheets posted every day about how much power they made considering how many cams you & Pat spec out.
Yes, a lower ICL is going to build more cylinder pressure, but it doesn't always make more power. I've had motors that made less power until I lowered cylinder pressures with a different cam. I've used **** tons of cams over the years, and I've been exposed to other shops who've used every cam under the sun over the years. So I know what works. It's really just as simple as that.
08-28-2009, 01:47 AM
#20
TECH Senior Member
It is about combination Damian. Most poeple base their combo around the cam, while it should be quite the opposite.
My game is not max peak horsepower as most of the masses like to brag about. My game is most average power and trq made in the useable powerband.
There are plenty big cams out there and I do not need to be adding to that collection.
If you have combos that make more power with less cylinder pressures that is attributed to 3 things.
1- Either the cam with more overlap has the wrong valve events
2- The exhaust is badly missmatched for that higher overlap
3- The heads move air poorly in midrange lift
Once you have overlap, you have to pay attention as to where that overlap occurs and minimise reversion. Over contaminating the intake charge will result in poor output with overlap, but properly done, overlap will make more power where you need it, not just at peak rpm.
My game is not max peak horsepower as most of the masses like to brag about. My game is most average power and trq made in the useable powerband.
There are plenty big cams out there and I do not need to be adding to that collection.
If you have combos that make more power with less cylinder pressures that is attributed to 3 things.
1- Either the cam with more overlap has the wrong valve events
2- The exhaust is badly missmatched for that higher overlap
3- The heads move air poorly in midrange lift
Once you have overlap, you have to pay attention as to where that overlap occurs and minimise reversion. Over contaminating the intake charge will result in poor output with overlap, but properly done, overlap will make more power where you need it, not just at peak rpm.
Last edited by PREDATOR-Z; 08-28-2009 at 02:22 AM.
