ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

So today I finally got my radiator re-installed (had to get a new filler neck welded on since the old one was leaking) and decided to take the car for a little test driving. It was a perfect day today for ttop off cruising- about 78 deg and sunny. My car just has a very rough basic mail tune on it right now until I get it to the dyno for my MAF tune. So for now, its just limited to about 30% throttle putting around town. I just want to make sure that the new radiator neck isnt leaking, its not overheating, and no other trouble codes are coming up.

Well, I drove it about 25 miles or so just around town. I stopped and turned the car off a few times between the gas station, sonic, and a few auto parts stores. I just installed a 12" pusher fan in front of the condenser, so now it has a zirgo 16" puller rated at 3000cfm (got from summit), a 7" no-name puller rated at 1100cfm (got from siliconeintakes site), and the new 12" no-name pusher rated at 1600cfm (also got from siliconeintakes). As stated, it was sub 80deg and I had all the fans running and my coolant temps would start to creep into the 220+ range if driven for more than about 15 minutes at a time. I also have a 3" core griffin radiator. This was so disheartening because for one, I did not have the A/C on, secondly, it wasnt hot outside by any means, and thirdly, I wasn't even in stop and go traffic at all. It was city driving, but traffic was virtually non-existent, so it was just occasional stop lights where it was idling for short amounts of time. I'm starting to wonder if these fans I have are just plain crap.. I dunno what else it could be.

Add to that, the SES light came on too. So I get home and check the codes, and they are P0327 & P0332 which are both knock sensors low input signals. When I put this engine together, I replaced one knock sensor because it looked corroded on the top. The other looked fine, so I kept it. I'm wondering if this has something to do with going to the iron block from an aluminum block? If its not that, sounds like its gonna be a pretty grueling troubleshooting path to figure this crap out.

These little things just suck because right now. I don't even have the money to get it tuned and even if I did, I couldnt without at least getting the knock sensor issue worked out. I can get the dyno tuning done with the limited cooling control I have by just letting it cool down between runs for a little bit. But even so, after tuning, I'll have to address the whole cooling issue... Its just been one thing after another for a couple years with this car. I had really high hopes for this build, but now I feel like I'm just at the point of throwing in the towel and parting this sucker out Just seems like I can't catch a break for nothin and I never even get to enjoy the fruits of my labor a little bit between all the little problems

EPP

iTrader: (22)

I'd replace your thermostat, or at least make sure it is opening up at the correct temperature. I'd also verify the fans are blowing the correct direction, it is easy to have them wired backwards, and a puller can be blowing air at the radiator and it can bounce back and appear that it is pulling. Hang in there! Bob

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

also...if they are reversible fans, make sure the fan blade is installed in the correct direction for how the air is moving (on my fan it came as a puller, but to use as a pusher I had to flip the blade otherwise the airflow sucked)

airforcemanss

iTrader: (23)

i wish you luck for my future pro charger stake! is that 16'' pusher the same setup trust did without the shroud and of course 2" bigger?

can you give us info on how it ran before before the new pusher? or your previous setup before the switch?

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Hmm possible you have air pocket in the cooling system? I know I don't have procharger have turbo kit but I have only had one near overheat condition so far with my aps kit and running stock rad, stock fans. I am pretty sure it was from messing around with leaning things out and messing with timing as haven't really had any since.It hit 250 degrees and shut the car down. Didn't boil over. It was only about 80 out that day. I haven't driven my car past 90 degrees but its been ok up till there. It usually runs around 200 degrees. I have 160 stat, redline water wetter with 50/50 regular antifreeze and fans come on at 170 ,both of them.
It would seem to me with all your stuff you would have no problems cooling the car.

As for knock sensors I run iron block i have zero problems with the knock sensors.They are pretty easy to get to just remove intake. Or is intake harder to remove with procharger on there?

slow67

iTrader: (2)

If your knock sensors went out, you were cruising with very low timing. The stock PCM pulls out the max possible timing everywhere, and puts you in the low octane table when a knock sensor fails. Cruising around on low timing makes things get hot pretty quick.

Tzion_ben_Arthur

iTrader: (19)

Sorry to hear this Chad , I have been a big fan of you car for some time now.... please hang in there man. I can't wait to see some numbers from it. As long and the heads seal this time, I say you just have a few mild issues to work out. Let me know if I can help with anything.

wingnut

'Trust'

iTrader: (24)

I'd double check the wiring on the fans. I had mine backwards at one point where my ATI and 9" spal came to merge, they both spun backwards and it got hot quick.

Your cooling system is plenty sufficient, so you're fine there. I'd check the fan wiring (loop the relay so they kick on with the motor off), check your t-stat, and burp that coolant.

I know how you feel on the little issues, they **** me off. Just take a step back, realize how, comparatively, little the problem is then take care of it.

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

I am 100% sure the fans are wired up to spin in the correct direction. I already checked that 3 times. Also, the blades on that pusher fan are not removable from what I could see.. The thermostat in there is a 160° and it is working as well. I don’t see how lower timing would be playing into the engine running hot. It is just a very conservative tune right now to get it running and make sure there are no bugs in anything, so timing is already set low, but I’m only going about 30% throttle or less, so that wouldn’t even be an issue would it? Also, my aeroforce gauge is showing 0.0 KR..

The knock sensors aren’t hard to get to, no. But diagnosing them is looking like its going to be a PITA from what I am reading on that issue. It could be knock sensors torqued down too tight or too loose, which would be easiest to fix, but I still would have to pull the intake manifold. No- that’s not hard to do, its just mentally draining to have JUST finished putting the car together, then tearing parts back off. First the radiator, now the manifold.. I definitely don’t have the money now to be just throwing at new knock sensors, or a new knock sensor harness just to see if that fixes the problem.

All I want to do is be able to drive my car whenever I want. I don’t give a $#!+ at this point if it makes 800rwhp or 600rwhp or even 400rwhp. I just want to be able to drive it around and enjoy it. Having to constantly work out issues isn’t so bad as long as I can drive it, but when I can’t even do that, its very disheartening

'Trust'

iTrader: (24)

I know how you feel man. Powerful cars are a blast, but to be simple the H/C cars I've had are probably the most consistently fun cars I've owned.

01boydws6

iTrader: (19)

I feel your pain man Im in the same boat with trying to get my tune issues worked out with my d1 setup, I have had the car since jan. of last year and have only got to drive it a total of about two months of it and then the clutch and trans went and then once I got those issues sorted out and got it back together then I statred having other issues I to have been tempted to sell the blower set up to just go with a heads cam set up. The reason I dont is because I know the issues are little issues and once they are sorted out I will have way more fun. It mayt be a long road to get there but it will be worth it in the end.

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

You have knock sensor codes and your scan tool reads 0.0 KR?? Your not going to get any data that is worth reading if there is a fault in the circuit or component. You need to disregard the scan data (K.R.) until the DTC's are gone. Late timing can cause a hotter running engine, even late idle timing can cause in increase in temps. This will create a lot of header heat (underhood heat). I would be looking at what your timing actually is when drving. Log the data and look at it, otherwise its speculation about your mail tune being 'conservative'.

Disconnecting the harness at the back of the intake and measure resistance between sensor side and ground should be within 93 to 107 ohms. If it is. Set meter to AC voltage and connect to sensor signal side (to PCM) and ground and tap on block with hammer and look for a AC voltage output.

Torque on these during install is only 11 ft. lbs. They can be damaged if you cranked them into place. If this is the case, the resistance check will show it assuming you have a connection all the way to them.

Also, what was done in the tune as far as the knock sensor tables? These codes set when the PCM is not happy with the frequency of the signal sent back to it from the sensors, meaning bad circuit, bad part, or the tables have been changed. Many tuners will 'desensitize' these circuits for false knock reasons.

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

Ok, I'll set the aeroforce to observe timing. What is normal for just regular putting around town at less than half throttle? I have no way to log data though. I only have a gauge to read it realtime. I have no idea what is done in the tune as far as desensitizing the knock sensors. I'll have to ask my tuner on that one.. I did not use a torque wrench to tighten the sensors, but I didn't go overboard at all when I was tightening them. I'll check the output of them as soon as I get re-motivated to dive back into the car.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Hey this happened to me when I had just finished rebuilding my car. Turned out that there were still some air bubbles in the coolant system and I had to run the heater to clear some of the air bubbles trapped at the T-stat. Might want to give that a shot. Best of luck man!! Hope you get it worked out.

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Man Chad, this sucks. I know you were excited about getting her running. Dont give up & part her out man, you'll kick yourself later. Just take a break since funds are low anyhow & try to trouble shoot just whenever you get time. Dont make it a job or it'll definetly burn you out.

I agree with tryin to burp out the coolant system again. I had a similar problem after my H/C install & it ended up just being air in the system.

You know what I just thought about though, what about a partially clogged heater core? In my previous car my heater core clogged & it would cause me to overheat since the coolant wasnt flowing thru the core as it should. After replacing it all was fine. Not sure if these cars can fall victim to this as well since it hasnt happened to me yet(knock on wood).

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

Last night I tried burping the coolant system again with the heater on full blast for about 10-15 minutes the car was running. The whole time, it never got above 177° and that with the extra fans off- so the only fan operating was the 16”. I figured I would drive it around and see if I could get the temps up again. So I drove it for an hour just doin everything I could to try and get it to overheat. I was keeping the RPMs up by staying in second and third gear going around town at 40-50mph. Also stopped by my dad’s house and left it idling in his driveway for a little bit. It did get up to 230° at the very hottest, but it would then quickly go down from there and go back to 220-224. While I know this is hotter than I would like it to be, if that is the absolute max it will ever get, I won’t be too disappointed. My AC still is not on because one of my lines broke when I was doing the engine install, so I can’t test that right now til I get a new line. My dad suggested maybe the radiator cap itself is a problem. Other probable sources we came up with was the horizontal FMIC possibly blocking some air from the radiator- or at least heating up the air before it gets to the radiator, and also one thought was the lack of an upper radiator shroud. I took the upper shroud off and just put a couple metal strips to hold the radiator in place when I redid the filler neck. (We had to cut one of the tabs off the griffin radiator that the ATI shroud used to hold it in place to be able to weld on the filler neck, and I went ahead and cut the other one off too thinking the ATI shroud would still work, but it didn’t.) I then went home and quickly fabbed up a makeshift cardboard upper shroud to put in there just to see if it would make a difference, but it didn’t do much. So the upper shroud isn’t a problem at least I know that now. I may also try some water wetter and see if that helps at all.

'Trust'

iTrader: (24)

If you are suspecting the cap, it could be releasing coolant. Get a block of wood with some sand paper on it and lightly smoothen out the top of the filler neck and also try a new cap. Smoothening the top up will help make better contact with the radiator cap.

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Ya know, I was wondering if that horizontal FMIC would block some airflow but I thought the airdam was behind that, so it should still be scooping the same amount of air up to the radiator right?

Good to see some of the temps getting under control. I figured you were already running some kind of water wetter already. That should help some since your not currently using any.

Kinda weird it worked better with only the 16" fan goin though. Thats makes me curious...

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

Well, I was playing around with the other fans turning them on and off to see if they helped, but I honestly couldnt tell a difference with them on vs off. I'm sure if it were hotter than 80° outside and if the AC was on those fans would definitely be helping. I sure cant see them hurting at all.

The fill neck is new, and I know the cap isnt leaking because I watched it for quite a while. My dad was just suggesting that the stock cap is probably designed to run at a certain pressure, and maybe a different cap would change the pressure and possibly help with the coolant temps. Now that I think about it, when I had it idling in the driveway and it wouldnt go above 177, the cap was off. As soon as I put the cap on and shut the hood to go for a spin, the temp shot up pretty quickly afterwards, so maybe that has more to do with it than I noticed.

barnat

iTrader: (59)

I was kinda thinking air pocket too after i read your post ??? Be cool make a nice plug and play daul fan setup by the way,that i use with no problems.It could also be a bad tune,, which is leaniing you out causing the knock sensor codes!!!!!Its just weird that there going off on you while only at 30% throttle around town???? . You can even hook a scanner or find someone to scan your ride while driveing to watch the O2 readings to find out if your leaning out somewhere or not or if you just need to change your knocks.You'll get it