mandrel bent tubing vs. regular...
09-05-2009, 10:56 PM
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mandrel bent tubing vs. regular... hey guys i have an 02 SS camaro with longtubes and true duals. Now i know how mandrel bent tubing is superior so i had my exhaust guy that usually does really good work with regular tubing order mandrel bent tubing and he ended up doing a hack job. It sounds really good but hangs really low to the ground we just did it under the axle because it would cost to much if we were doing it mandrel since we'd have to order all the bends. Well now I want to lower my car but I'd have to change the exhaust or it would compltely just snag on everything, also i def. want to keep true duals. So if i have my exhaust guy re-do my exhaust with his regular bender we can tuck it up really good and have no problem with lowering it. So basically my question is how much horsepower would the regular bends rob over a mandrel bent catback. Keep in mind i have longtube headers, and powerstick mufflers no resonators or cats, and h pipe. So the exhaust should flow good, I have 2.5" tubing also. also side note, i may not have much work done to my car now but i do plan on doing a head and cam in the future
So guys it boils down to how much horsepower my car would lose switching from mandrel bends to regular tubing Thanks alot -cory D
So guys it boils down to how much horsepower my car would lose switching from mandrel bends to regular tubing Thanks alot -cory D
Last edited by mastercoryd; 09-05-2009 at 10:59 PM. Reason: typing error
09-06-2009, 04:38 AM
#3
It can be done with mandrel bends. Show your guy some pictures how it is done and go from there. If he says he can't do it, he isn't really a good muffler guy.
IMO, if you going to go with performance, do it right on the first time, don't settle down w/ crush bends or kinks.
IMO, if you going to go with performance, do it right on the first time, don't settle down w/ crush bends or kinks.
for your ignorance.
09-06-2009, 10:37 AM
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Gonna agree with this guy.
The diameter of the pipe becomes smaller, and the crush bends create turbulence. Exhaust is as good as its smallest restriction, so if you have a 2.5" crush bend, that's actually 2 1/4th... well you can put 2 and 2 together.
Go with mandrel bends, and instead of your shop putting it together, throw it on some jack stands and put it up yourself, it's not exactly hard to slip some piping together that.. have slip joints. You can always put half of it up, and have the shop finish the rest. The point of this is ground clearance. Most shops don't know dick about routing exhaust on F-Bodys.
Wait.
They DO know: "Yeh can't fit dual pipes on a cameroz, not enuff room!"
09-06-2009, 10:49 AM
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a great exhaust shop has a mandrel bender. a good shop buys pipe and welds to connect the pipe. any good exhaust guy should be able to measure and mock up a system.
09-06-2009, 12:23 PM
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yeah, this is kind of what i thought It just sucks cause theres no shops around here that has mandrel benders.. maybe I can find someone local that if i order all the tubing they can take their time and help me do a nice setup over the axle, but seems like all the shops around here are ****. Also to the post that said its good as its smallest bend so if the crush bend is 2.25 what if i went with 3" tubing would it flow as good as like 2.5 mandrel bent?
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09-06-2009, 12:49 PM
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i always thought that using mandrel bent tubes was for better flow. as in the shop was actually making the exhaust system. i know there are kits available that offer mandrel bent tubes, which is ok if you're doing it in your garage. even some of those you have cut a little for a good fit. and i have bought them with good results. im not saying a shop is bad because they dont have the equipment, because it is exspensive. but on the other hand if your going to specalize in something you should at least have the proper tools. and as far as pipe sizing flowing the well i guess it depends on how sharp the bends and how much it crushed.
09-06-2009, 02:37 PM
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Essentially, jam01 hit the nail on the head. However that's extremely silly to do.
Mandrel Bending Solutions has the cheap chinese tubing, but its all mandrel bent and you can just coat it like I will do.
A basic rundown if you have pacesetters or the like that have an angle on the driver side collector would be either of these 2: (Note, if you do follow these, please give yourself an extra 5 inches on each piece so you can trim, not all exhausts will be the same.)
10" straight piece off the driver collector, into a 45* angle, into another 45* angle, which puts it right around the subframe and in my opinion can be tucked better because you have more bends to play with.
OR
15-20" of straight pipe, into a 90* angle which puts it right around the subframe.
Passenger side is the easiest, its just 25 inches of straight pipe all the way back to where the cat mounts, then a 45* angles it directly where you need it.
Finish up as you please, I went the H-Pipe route.
Mandrel Bending Solutions has the cheap chinese tubing, but its all mandrel bent and you can just coat it like I will do.
A basic rundown if you have pacesetters or the like that have an angle on the driver side collector would be either of these 2: (Note, if you do follow these, please give yourself an extra 5 inches on each piece so you can trim, not all exhausts will be the same.)
10" straight piece off the driver collector, into a 45* angle, into another 45* angle, which puts it right around the subframe and in my opinion can be tucked better because you have more bends to play with.
OR
15-20" of straight pipe, into a 90* angle which puts it right around the subframe.
Passenger side is the easiest, its just 25 inches of straight pipe all the way back to where the cat mounts, then a 45* angles it directly where you need it.
Finish up as you please, I went the H-Pipe route.
09-06-2009, 04:13 PM
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i know there is a gain and thats why they do it, but i'm saying if you only lose 5hp i would go that route instead of turning my exhaust into dumps lol
09-06-2009, 04:35 PM
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What is so bad about dumps?
And trust me, since you plan on heads and cam later on, it won't just be "5hp."
Not only that, people go a long way to get "5hp".
Why gimp yourself now and want/have to redo it later?
And trust me, since you plan on heads and cam later on, it won't just be "5hp."
Not only that, people go a long way to get "5hp".
Why gimp yourself now and want/have to redo it later?
09-06-2009, 08:56 PM
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Most muffler shops are not going to go for the expense of a mandrel bender, plus they have to have a following of high performance cars and trucks to be able to pay for the machine and the dies. Our mandrel bender was $50,000., but we have $175,000. in dies. We bought a second used older bender for $13,000 w/ just a few smaller size dies to build headers with
09-06-2009, 08:58 PM
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i have no problem with dumps it will be easy and i can do it right away, only problem i have with it is if a cop was driving behind me i wouldnt want them to notice it right away and give me a ticket, im pushing it right now just cause how loud my car is nevermind the seeing no tips. Also I dont want it to loud in the car but still want my car loud but idk i guess im going to have to find a better exhaust shop or make dumps.
09-06-2009, 09:12 PM
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Most muffler shops are not going to go for the expense of a mandrel bender, plus they have to have a following of high performance cars and trucks to be able to pay for the machine and the dies. Our mandrel bender was $50,000., but we have $175,000. in dies. We bought a second used older bender for $13,000 w/ just a few smaller size dies to build headers with
09-07-2009, 06:43 AM
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There's more to it than the $50,000, like I said $175,000 in dies, you have to have one set of dies for aluminized pipe and another set of bronze for stainless steel, then you need a different mandrel for every thickness. One for .049, one for .065 etc. On top of that you have to be a very good bender operator to make the system look good, because mandrel bending is way different than press bending. We are on Long Island and now that Kook's has moved down south, there are only 2 shops on the whole island that have a mandrel machine, out of a thousand muffler shops, just 2 have a mandrel bender. As a matter of fact there are not very many in the whole northeast. I uploaded a couple of photos of a older big block camaro with 3 inch mandrel exhaust, x pipe and Flowmasters, we flanged the mufflers so it can be taken apart.
09-07-2009, 07:38 AM
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Yeah, Mandrels are better than Crush Forms.
But like BluShadowSS said...
Be it Mandrels or fkn Crush Forms up that end of the car,
you will see 2 parts of *** all difference.
If thats all you got to worry about... I envy you.
But like BluShadowSS said...
Be it Mandrels or fkn Crush Forms up that end of the car,
you will see 2 parts of *** all difference.
If thats all you got to worry about... I envy you.
09-07-2009, 08:55 AM
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There's more to it than the $50,000, like I said $175,000 in dies, you have to have one set of dies for aluminized pipe and another set of bronze for stainless steel, then you need a different mandrel for every thickness. One for .049, one for .065 etc. On top of that you have to be a very good bender operator to make the system look good, because mandrel bending is way different than press bending. We are on Long Island and now that Kook's has moved down south, there are only 2 shops on the whole island that have a mandrel machine, out of a thousand muffler shops, just 2 have a mandrel bender. As a matter of fact there are not very many in the whole northeast. I uploaded a couple of photos of a older big block camaro with 3 inch mandrel exhaust, x pipe and Flowmasters, we flanged the mufflers so it can be taken apart.
09-07-2009, 09:00 AM
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I guess most muffler shops would rather put their money into doing regular mechanic work, than to just specialize in exhaust, all we do is exhaust, whereas your meineke's and midas's and most other exhaust shops are doing all kinds of repair work now that most exhaust systems are stainless steel & regular exhaust business has dropped off
