Clutch engagement question
09-07-2009, 11:51 AM
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Clutch engagement question Alright well last night I finished up my clutch install on my car. Its a SPEC Stage 3 with new flywheel and new slave cylinder. When I installed the clutch back, I removed the shim. I know my slave has to be bleed more, but my question is, why does my clutch engage RIGHT off the floor? I literally don't even have an inch of clearence, it grabs RIGHT off the floor and its very hard to drive like that. Is this due to air still being in the system, or is it because of the shim being removed? The clutch has maybe 4500 miles on it and started slipping, so I took it apart only to find out it was fine, so I changed the flywheel, slave, and removed the shim. As always thanks for any help!
09-07-2009, 05:53 PM
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Alright well last night I finished up my clutch install on my car. Its a SPEC Stage 3 with new flywheel and new slave cylinder. When I installed the clutch back, I removed the shim. I know my slave has to be bleed more, but my question is, why does my clutch engage RIGHT off the floor? I literally don't even have an inch of clearence, it grabs RIGHT off the floor and its very hard to drive like that. Is this due to air still being in the system, or is it because of the shim being removed? The clutch has maybe 4500 miles on it and started slipping, so I took it apart only to find out it was fine, so I changed the flywheel, slave, and removed the shim. As always thanks for any help!
Clutch started to slip, but is fine??
well, before you start tearing things apart again, I would bleed it again to make sure that is not teh problem...
09-07-2009, 07:29 PM
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New clutch installs usually start out that way and as the mating surfaces wear together, the engagement point moves away from the floor. This should happen pretty quick in the break-in period. I suspect in your case there might not be much change since the clutch disk is already worn some.
The shim was designed to give you more throw and is not always required depending on your set-up. If your clutch ends up not releasing all the way, you'll need to put it back in or get an adjustable master. The lack of a shim may also be why your release point is low.
The shim was designed to give you more throw and is not always required depending on your set-up. If your clutch ends up not releasing all the way, you'll need to put it back in or get an adjustable master. The lack of a shim may also be why your release point is low.
09-08-2009, 02:23 PM
#6
Removing the shim will inherently lower the engagement point as its intended purpose is to increase the clutches total stack height. That being said you were seeing slippage with the shim but the clutch is on the floor without it...which would lead me to think that this is most likely hydraulic in nature. When you pulled the shim did you bleed the system again? If so, did you you get any air out? Is the pedal consistent in terms of travel and stiffness? Let me know and I will be happy to provide more info as needed. Thanks,
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09-08-2009, 03:27 PM
#8
1BAD, that is a great question...and it could easily lead to what the OP is experiencing. It isn't something I see happen regularly but...it is worth checking without a doubt.
09-08-2009, 08:56 PM
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Thanks for the input guys, the system will be bled tomm as I was called into work today and coulden't do it. So put the shim back in you guys say?
09-08-2009, 09:17 PM
#10
How are you bleeding the clutch? If you open the screw, then go pump to clutch you will not get the air out. It takes two people and coordination to close the screw before the pedal hits the bottom. I am not sure it you could use a mity vac on this. I can tell you what I did. I pulled the carpet back and put a hole in the floor big enough to run a extenstion thru. Then when I was done I just put a large carriage bolt in it.
09-08-2009, 09:50 PM
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How are you bleeding the clutch? If you open the screw, then go pump to clutch you will not get the air out. It takes two people and coordination to close the screw before the pedal hits the bottom. I am not sure it you could use a mity vac on this. I can tell you what I did. I pulled the carpet back and put a hole in the floor big enough to run a extenstion thru. Then when I was done I just put a large carriage bolt in it.
09-09-2009, 08:03 AM
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Well, BEFORE you do that....bleed it again (Good!) It can be tricky to bleed the setup, and if not done correctly, can lead to problems like this.
Easiest way to do it, and works:
2 people
Car on jackstands
top off reservoir
one person in car
one person under car
person in car, apply pressure to pedal, DO NOT PUMP OR PUSH TO FLOOR! have person in car, apply pressure, person under car, open bleeder, person in car, push pedal SLOWLY to floor, and RIGHT BEFORE pedal gets to floor, perosn under car, close bleeder.
Release pedal.
Do again.
After 3-4 times of this, check reservoir, and top off. Do these steps until pedal gets firm/no air is being released from system.
10-15 minutes.
09-09-2009, 12:29 PM
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Well, BEFORE you do that....bleed it again (Good!) It can be tricky to bleed the setup, and if not done correctly, can lead to problems like this.
Easiest way to do it, and works:
2 people
Car on jackstands
top off reservoir
one person in car
one person under car
person in car, apply pressure to pedal, DO NOT PUMP OR PUSH TO FLOOR! have person in car, apply pressure, person under car, open bleeder, person in car, push pedal SLOWLY to floor, and RIGHT BEFORE pedal gets to floor, perosn under car, close bleeder.
Release pedal.
Do again.
After 3-4 times of this, check reservoir, and top off. Do these steps until pedal gets firm/no air is being released from system.
10-15 minutes.
Easiest way to do it, and works:
2 people
Car on jackstands
top off reservoir
one person in car
one person under car
person in car, apply pressure to pedal, DO NOT PUMP OR PUSH TO FLOOR! have person in car, apply pressure, person under car, open bleeder, person in car, push pedal SLOWLY to floor, and RIGHT BEFORE pedal gets to floor, perosn under car, close bleeder.
Release pedal.
Do again.
After 3-4 times of this, check reservoir, and top off. Do these steps until pedal gets firm/no air is being released from system.
10-15 minutes.
Thanks again for the help, unfortunitly for some reason the bleeder valve is pressing against the metal around it making it immposible to get a socket over it to bleed it, so the trans has to be pulled anyway. I am doing this today when I get home from school, I don't really want to bleed it only to find out it needs the shim too...
Im torn right now:
Pull trans
Fix slave
Bleed it
Or
Pull trans
Put shim back in
Fix slave
Bleed it
What would you guys do? Trans has to come out either way....to shim or not to shim, that it the question...
09-09-2009, 12:45 PM
#15
The folks at TICK have provided a great write-up relative to determining the need for a shim. I have provided a link to the thread relative to this. Take a look and let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks,
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...need-shim.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...need-shim.html
Last edited by SPEC-01; 09-09-2009 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Wrong name written...sorry!
