Nitrous surging, hesitation, hiccup, problems, window tps wiring problems look here
09-09-2009, 08:48 PM
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Nitrous surging, hesitation, hiccup, problems, window tps wiring problems look here So since I installed my really 'elaborate' nitrous setup I have had a surge / surging / hesitation / hiccup / lack of power problem I could not figure out.
Heres what I am using:
NX solenoids
NX foggers 'Y'
Trick Performance Window Switch
Lingenfelter Timing Controller
NGK BR7EFS or whatever they are called (Non Projected Tip)
MSD Wires
Now it all started when I initially installed the kit. About 6months ago. Took it to the dyno, and the car was breaking badly on the 175 shot. Tried leaning out the car via Jets AND fuel pressure and no dice.
Dropped down to the 125 shot, and the car still had a hiccup.
Since the hiccup was less, I figured it was the plug gap. At the time, I had NGK TR6s which I forgot to gap. So they were at .040's like they come out of the box.
Went to the BR7EFS, and I still had the same issue.
Removed the Nitrous filter, still had the same issue.
Changed from stock wires to MSDs, still had the same issue.
Took apart the solenoids and powered them up manually, and they all flowed fine. Discovered that the fuel fitler was backwards, so I fixed that. Still had the same issue.
Yesterday, I disconnected the Lingenfelter Timing tuner, and the nitrous did not work! DUH, I wired the tach signal into the Lingenfelter coil wiring harness.
Set the Trick performance tps/window switch to 0 RPMS, that way it only works as a WOT switch.
Took it for a drive, still hesitating.
So with the ENGINE not running, but the key in the 'ON' position, I proceeded to push the throttle pedal down.
CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK,CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK...
sounded like a had a Mariachi Band playing under the hood.
The solenoids were BOTH pulsing.
Disconnected the solenoids, the relay was still pulsing.
Disconnected the relay, and hooked up my test light, and the ground trigger wire was still pulsing.
Checked the TPS voltage at the purple wire, and it was rock solid at 4.5Volts.
Reset the TPS voltage down to 4.4, and the problem was still there.
Changed over to the green wire, and redid the setup. Worked fine EXCEPT it would keep the nitrous on for a bit longer. So, I had to turn off the nitrous via the arming switch. Or it would turn on the solenoids at part throttle. I assume it does this because the PCM tries to predict how far you will go with the pedal, or to not cause any throttle 'shock'.
Tried called Trick Performance today, and left a voicemail.
I called Chris@NitroDaves and he gave me some ideas, like trying the 2nd channel. Maybe the first one is fried or something.
Well, I went to lunch, and thought things through. Searched LS1tech/LS1GTO and with difference search keywords I found people with the same problem with DIFFERENT tps/window switches.
So, being that its almost been 6months since my initial install, I was very eager to finish, figure this out.
SO, I noticed some people were installed their window/tps switch wiring in the interior.
Bingo, went to the throttle pedal, and found 2 wires according to AllDATA that provide pedal reference signals.
One is Dark Blue, the other is Light Blue
The Dark Blue wire is the one I used because It provided 0-2.5 volts, where as the light blue only ranged form 0-.5volts.
So, I wired the tps wire to the pedal and everything works as intended now.
Not only is my nitrous system working perfectly, but its probably more accurate than from the tps off the throttle body.
by removing that pesky wire from the throttle body, it 'cleaned' up the nitrous wiring. No longer do I have a single loomed wire going to the throttle body.
So for those that have a similar problem, dont buy another window switch. Just rewire to the pedal.:turbonaug
This is from my LS2 06 GTO btw
Cliff Notes: Trick Performance window switch installed to both Purple and Green wire did not work perfectly. Rewired it to Dark Blue wire on the gas pedal, everything works fine.
Heres what I am using:
NX solenoids
NX foggers 'Y'
Trick Performance Window Switch
Lingenfelter Timing Controller
NGK BR7EFS or whatever they are called (Non Projected Tip)
MSD Wires
Now it all started when I initially installed the kit. About 6months ago. Took it to the dyno, and the car was breaking badly on the 175 shot. Tried leaning out the car via Jets AND fuel pressure and no dice.
Dropped down to the 125 shot, and the car still had a hiccup.
Since the hiccup was less, I figured it was the plug gap. At the time, I had NGK TR6s which I forgot to gap. So they were at .040's like they come out of the box.
Went to the BR7EFS, and I still had the same issue.
Removed the Nitrous filter, still had the same issue.
Changed from stock wires to MSDs, still had the same issue.
Took apart the solenoids and powered them up manually, and they all flowed fine. Discovered that the fuel fitler was backwards, so I fixed that. Still had the same issue.
Yesterday, I disconnected the Lingenfelter Timing tuner, and the nitrous did not work! DUH, I wired the tach signal into the Lingenfelter coil wiring harness.
Set the Trick performance tps/window switch to 0 RPMS, that way it only works as a WOT switch.
Took it for a drive, still hesitating.
So with the ENGINE not running, but the key in the 'ON' position, I proceeded to push the throttle pedal down.
CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK,CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK...
sounded like a had a Mariachi Band playing under the hood.
The solenoids were BOTH pulsing.
Disconnected the solenoids, the relay was still pulsing.
Disconnected the relay, and hooked up my test light, and the ground trigger wire was still pulsing.
Checked the TPS voltage at the purple wire, and it was rock solid at 4.5Volts.
Reset the TPS voltage down to 4.4, and the problem was still there.
Changed over to the green wire, and redid the setup. Worked fine EXCEPT it would keep the nitrous on for a bit longer. So, I had to turn off the nitrous via the arming switch. Or it would turn on the solenoids at part throttle. I assume it does this because the PCM tries to predict how far you will go with the pedal, or to not cause any throttle 'shock'.
Tried called Trick Performance today, and left a voicemail.
I called Chris@NitroDaves and he gave me some ideas, like trying the 2nd channel. Maybe the first one is fried or something.
Well, I went to lunch, and thought things through. Searched LS1tech/LS1GTO and with difference search keywords I found people with the same problem with DIFFERENT tps/window switches.
So, being that its almost been 6months since my initial install, I was very eager to finish, figure this out.
SO, I noticed some people were installed their window/tps switch wiring in the interior.
Bingo, went to the throttle pedal, and found 2 wires according to AllDATA that provide pedal reference signals.
One is Dark Blue, the other is Light Blue
The Dark Blue wire is the one I used because It provided 0-2.5 volts, where as the light blue only ranged form 0-.5volts.
So, I wired the tps wire to the pedal and everything works as intended now.
Not only is my nitrous system working perfectly, but its probably more accurate than from the tps off the throttle body.
by removing that pesky wire from the throttle body, it 'cleaned' up the nitrous wiring. No longer do I have a single loomed wire going to the throttle body.
So for those that have a similar problem, dont buy another window switch. Just rewire to the pedal.:turbonaug
This is from my LS2 06 GTO btw
Cliff Notes: Trick Performance window switch installed to both Purple and Green wire did not work perfectly. Rewired it to Dark Blue wire on the gas pedal, everything works fine.
09-10-2009, 08:03 PM
#3
Sounds like bypassing the Trick TPS did the job. This is one of the reasons I kind of prefer the WOT micro sw under the pedal. It's much more dependable, imo, and less prone to having issues, not to mention cleaner in some cases. Now with that said, my current set-up I am using the TPS activation via my MicroEdge and thus far no problems. I know setting up the trick WS can be a pain, from experiance, could you have had a setting incorrect somewhere/somehow? or maybe just an internal electrical glitch in the unit itself? glad you got it sorted, as I know how frustrating these types of problems can be and am dealing with one myself, though of a different nature, lol. 
Robert
Robert
09-11-2009, 08:28 AM
#4
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Hello Robert,
I'm not a novice, and I made sure I isolated everything before discovering it was the Trick switch.
When I was setting up the window switch, I had a friend push down on the pedal, while I watch the multimeter and Trick switch. NOTE I did this with the car on the 'on' position and I also did this by driving the car.
Originally, I had the throttle down to the floor, giving me a 4.5v activation for the Trick switch. The Trick switch was still fluttering the ground.
We did the setup again, this time, taking the pedal 3/4s of the way thru, which netted 3.6ish volts for activation. Still fluttering.
Went to the green wire which is a reverse signal. Again, went thru the same setup.
This time it worked, but the unit would randomly activate at part throttle.
When I spoke to a gentlemen at Trick, he said some people have experienced this fluttering also. After some revised searching, I found more people with this same problem with different window switch BRANDS. Trick, N2O Outlet, HSW1`, etc
My post on the LS1GTO forums confirms that there is something else going on with the TPS wires on the throttlebody, because there are more guys coming forward with the same EXACT problem with different Window/TPS switches.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333072
I will also agree with you there rob, that a good ole fashion micro switch does the job well, but the inital idea of not having to install one, and getting a 'true' activation from the actual throttle blade instead of a 'fake' pedal, is just more appealing.
Not to mention there is less items needed, which means quicker install and a little bit less wieght. < Yeah i'm pushing it on that one. lol
I'm not a novice, and I made sure I isolated everything before discovering it was the Trick switch.
When I was setting up the window switch, I had a friend push down on the pedal, while I watch the multimeter and Trick switch. NOTE I did this with the car on the 'on' position and I also did this by driving the car.
Originally, I had the throttle down to the floor, giving me a 4.5v activation for the Trick switch. The Trick switch was still fluttering the ground.
We did the setup again, this time, taking the pedal 3/4s of the way thru, which netted 3.6ish volts for activation. Still fluttering.
Went to the green wire which is a reverse signal. Again, went thru the same setup.
This time it worked, but the unit would randomly activate at part throttle.
When I spoke to a gentlemen at Trick, he said some people have experienced this fluttering also. After some revised searching, I found more people with this same problem with different window switch BRANDS. Trick, N2O Outlet, HSW1`, etc
My post on the LS1GTO forums confirms that there is something else going on with the TPS wires on the throttlebody, because there are more guys coming forward with the same EXACT problem with different Window/TPS switches.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333072
I will also agree with you there rob, that a good ole fashion micro switch does the job well, but the inital idea of not having to install one, and getting a 'true' activation from the actual throttle blade instead of a 'fake' pedal, is just more appealing.
Not to mention there is less items needed, which means quicker install and a little bit less wieght. < Yeah i'm pushing it on that one. lol
