Pavetim

iTrader: (15)

I am going to delete my abs. Now i don't want line lock and i'm gonna replace all my lines with stainless ones anyways. So do I really need a abs delete kit or can I just get a proportiioning valve and redo my lines and call it a day?

great421

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you can.

...but - line locks and burn outs freak ricers out!

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

I'd suggest adding the line lock. If you want to build you're own kit, I'd suggest our line lock solenoid and a wilwood valve at minimum. They can be purchased on the website in the braking section.

You've got quite the task setting up everything from scratch. I'm not sure why your replacing all of your lines, I do wish you luck. Though I don't suggest folks designing a new brake configuration on their own, if you know what you're doing, it can be self gratfying. It's not a money/time saving job by any means.

Let us know if you need any particular fittings, adapters or other components you may need.

Pavetim

iTrader: (15)

I'll probalby just end up going with your kit. but I do want to put all stainless brake and fuel lines in so thats why I was gonna re-do them. and I really don't have a need or want for line lock so thats the only reason I was thinking of steering away from your kit SJM

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

I totally understand. You probably already know this, for others reading and confused, the line lock option is 40.00 and which includes the line lock and complete electrical kit (two switches, remote mount LED, wire, electrical connectors and even a grommet). It's an option item (you either have to already own one or you need it with our kit). We consider it an option which allows the end user to re-use their old solenoid instead of purchasing something again they already own.

If you don't own one, for the option, it’s a very good value. If you've never used one, once you do, you'll wonder why you never owned one previously. It is a useful tool if you need to heat your tires up keeping the car in control reducing brake fade, rotor warping and unnecessary wear and tear on driveline components. At minimum, it’s a "fun" mod.

The solenoid also acts as line secure point for the brake line...so I don't advise routing around it on our kits. You could if you wanted, but you need to devise a way to secure the line to the body.

On a side note, stainless line is more difficult to work with. Standard brake line lasts many years...probably more than most keep their cars...so it’s not something that you replace often (if at all). Some of the lines, you're going to have to reuse as you’re not going to be able to get them off the shelf in the configuration needed.

Al 96 Ram Air T/A

iTrader: (1)

Is there any "engineering" reason your company can't make/sell and ABS delete kit that does not require a line lock solenoid?

For those of us that no longer drag race, or have the need to heat up the rears (for show or go), what would it take to design a kit that replaces the ABS module with a proportioning valve, a few new lines, and a few couplers?

fortmyerspolice

iTrader: (7)

x2, I'm sure it would cut down on some weight too.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

As I mentioned, the line lock provides a secure-mounting point for the brake line itself. Without it, the line would run from the master cylinder to the OEM braided lines which will allow the line obviously to move about. Keep in mind, our kit removes the entire ABS bracket and ABS modulator. The ABS components originally held the lines securely in place.

You don't have to purchase the line lock solenoid, but its advisable for the reasons above. You would need to secure the brake line somehow.

If you choose this route, you'll need a union. We do have them as well. …My advice, to keep things simple, for 40.00, purchase the line lock and the electrical kit. You never know when you may want to use one...at least its there for you to use.

86formula

iTrader: (3)

I doubt securing it would be a problem since there are clamps with rubber linings (prevents chaffing) that could be used. I'm prertty sure the OP just doesn't want a line lock as he said multiple times. How hard would it be to use a line bender and bend your own line? Would it matter if it was a little bit longer or shorter (meaning would it effect braking)?

86formula

iTrader: (3)

Btw op I believe madman carries one that just gets rid of the abs with no need for a line lock

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

A lot of us never intend to do a burn-out.

We either have to delete ABS by racing rules or to remove the weight from the car, especially on the nose.

In NASA CMC and American Iron, a line lock is not even legal.

There is an ever-growing market for 4th gen F-Cars in road racing. Building a bolt-on kit to delete the ABS and secure the lines you describe would be a market share you are missing out on.

Right now, I use an Edleman adaptor coming off the MC and replumb all the hard lines in off-the-shelf 3/16 brake line. I use 3/16 to -3AN bulkheads at the inner fender wells and then -3AN steel braided brake line to the caliper and use a -3AN banjo.

3/16 to 3/16 brake bulkhead gets me through the firewall and I run OTS 3/16 steel line to a proportioning valve attached to the trans tunnel for easy access. And then continue back to the rear bulkhead where I use another 3/16 to -3AN bulkhead connector.

Then -3AN steel braided line to the rear diff and another Edleman -3 to metric adaptor to the factory Tee. At the rear axle ends, I adapt to -3 once again at the end of the factory lines and a -3AN banjo at the caliper.

I use aircraft adel clamps to secure the lines. I source the adels from an aero-salvage company.

Parts run $125 or so and it takes about 1/2 a day with the interior gutted to run it.

All that to say it would very nice if there was a bolt-in kit that got rid of the ABS, used existing hard lines and provided quality steel braided lines for the calipers and rear diff.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Building something from scratch...Difficulty is rated upon each users ability I suppose. Nothing wrong with building your own kit. There's self gratification to it BUT from a cost perspective and time, its not going to save much of anything...We can supply seperate components if the user prefers this method.

Personally, the whole kit base kit which includes every pre-formed line, every fitting and the adjustable Wilwood proportioning valve is only 139.99. All the parts come pre-assembled, no teflon tape is needed. If you don't want the line lock so be it...don't use one and don't purchase it with the kit. But you'll need to support the stock line. You'll need one union which replaces the line lock. We do have those as well.

Building your own, as mitch quoted, plan on spending a good portion of the day figuring how you want to install the parts.

Plan on purchasing extra pieces as you may damage or not like how you configured it. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

The kit Madman sells is an aluminum block that replaces the ABS modulator. It mounts in the stock ABS bracket. It does NOT include an adjustable proportioning valve which is an important piece allowing the user to bias (tune) brake pressure.

Pavetim

iTrader: (15)

Good post mitch but I missed something, why would you have to gut the interior? And I see your point SJM so if I buy the kit for 139 without the line lock, it still comes with the solenoid? You keep saying without line lock but your kit without the linelock has something to support the lines? And you got a regular style and a hurst style whats the difference?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Don't have to ... just makes it easier and lighter.

Look along the trans tunnel ...


http://lawmotorsports.net/Pics/94%20...TealForm20.JPG

http://lawmotorsports.net/Pics/94%20...TealForm22.JPG

http://lawmotorsports.net/Pics/94%20...TealForm33.JPG

http://lawmotorsports.net/Pics/Mitch...9_Build_13.jpg

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Line lock=solenoid. The difference between ours and a Hurst style is the name primarily. Both hold equal pressures, both are re-buildable. Differences lie more in appearance more than anything. The reason why we started offering Hurst style kits , initially we configured kits using our solenoids and other similar solenoids…we received quite a bit of folks who already owned a Hurst solenoid, yet they wanted our kits…so we listed and created revised kits to include the Hurst solenoid design.

The 139.99 kit includes everything but the line lock kit and flare tool. When I state everything this means all preformed lines with OEM style fittings with appropriate flares, every fitting (even fittings for your preexisting solenoid), adjustable wilwood valve, T-assemblies etc. It's sold this way for all the folks who already own a line lock (solenoid) and flare tool. This way they are not purchasing something they already own. If you don't own those two options, then you can add them with the order. The add-on price is 40.00 for the line lock and line lock electrical kit and 20.00 for the double flare tool.

The line lock does support the lines, so if you don't want it, and you don’t already have one, you'll need to support the lines somehow. You'll also need a union which we can supply. The union would take place of the line lock.

I'm still a bit confused as to the lengthy discussion about the solenoid (line lock). It’s a small dollar investment that even though you may not use it often, it’s there if you want/need it. Worst case scenario, so there is no concern of having to add a union or figure some way to support the lines, connect the solenoid in the system but don't wire it in electrically. At that point, it’s a union and a supporting mount.

If you still prefer to build a custom kit for your own boasting, I commend you. It’s not going to be for the interest of saving money and time.

Mitch, very nice work on the cage. Mitch has the valve in the interior so he can adjust it on the fly.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Our kit does bolt in and will connect to the stock lines. This is of course if your using either our line lock or your existing line lock solenoid. The main modification to the stock lines is you need to remove a few stock fittings replacing them with the fittings included in our kits.

The kits are preassembled for ease of installation. You do not receive a bag of loose fittings and bent line and then go to work. You do not need Teflon tape either. If using your own solenoid, even the fittings we include in the kit come with thread sealant on it so they are ready for your solenoid to be directly screwed in. Of course, if you're purchasing the kit with a solenoid, those come ready to go pre-assembled. Everything that can be assembled in the shop is assembled and boxed. It's about as plug and play as you can get. We also offer quality braided lines for the caliper and differential. We also have solo bleeders and even down to the bleeder tube if you need it.

The kit can be installed two ways: Either leaving the braided lines (LS1 cars have braided lines, LT1 cars do not) which originally connected into the ABS controller in-line OR removing the braided lines. If the engine is in the bay, we suggest leaving the braided lines alone as install will be more difficult due to the beginning location of the hard-lines. Anytime you can remove braided line replacing it with hard line is beneficial as increased brake control can be seen.

fortmyerspolice

iTrader: (7)

Exactly how much weight does your kit with line lock save over stock ABS?

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

There are quite a few variables as to weight removal; it depends on which 4th gen you have and what you're removing aside from the ABS module and ABS bracket. Lumping them together, as a short answer, it will be as little as 10lbs, as great as 20lbs.

Aside from weight, it cleans up the engine bay giving a less clutter look, allowing for easier access to components or running supercharger/turbocharger tubing, increases air flow, allows you to run varied tire sizes without ABS concerns...never have to be handicapped or have issues the ABS system again.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

That 20lbs is ALL off the nose. Every ounce of nose-weight counts on the F-Car platform.

$200 for 20lbs off the nose is CHEAP!