Clutch Bleeding for 3 Hours
09-19-2009, 06:18 PM
#1
Clutch Bleeding for 3 Hours This is just perplexing me.
Converting 1995 Formula from auto to stick. Almost done. I need to bleed the clutch so I can test the gears, then put the interior back together and the car on the ground. I CANNOT get the damn thing bled.
The service manual talks about unbolting the master, hanging the slave, pushing the plunger in while laying under the car yada yada. To avoid what sounds like a hassle, I searched around on this site and found some information in a couple places that recommend using a Mity Vac. Here is the method:
http://www.performanceworks1.com/ls1...h_bleeding.htm
I dropped $80 today on a Mity Vac, and spent 3+ hours pumping the clutch pedal and pumping the Mity Vac handle, keeping the vacuum at 10-15 inches of Mercury. As of quitting time, I was STILL getting air bubbles, both large and small, through the Mity Vac.
Now, there was SOME progress. When I started, I had no clutch at all, and could not get the T56 into any gear with the car running. I can now get it into 1st and 2nd, and there is some pedal pressure. However, as soon as I put it into gear the back wheels start turning even while the pedal is all the way to the floor. So, while the clutch is allowing me to get into two gears, it seems to be doing nothing as far as engaging/disengaging the trans from the engine. None of the other four gears are available, either...I encounter resistance when I try to select them, even if I pump the clutch.
I started to think maybe there was a leak, and I was sucking air in through that. I cannot find any leaks. I checked the braided hose where it connects to the master and to the slave...bone dry at each connection. I checked the rubber line that goes from the master cylinder reservoir to the master cylinder...no leak. I checked the inside of the car, on the firewall, around the master cylinder and clutch rod...no fluid anywhere. I also made sure, when operating the Mity Vac, that the hose in the master cylinder reservoir had fluid in it at all times, so I was not pulling air into the system.
The link and people say this method should take 5 minutes, I have 3+ hours into it. Any ideas?
Converting 1995 Formula from auto to stick. Almost done. I need to bleed the clutch so I can test the gears, then put the interior back together and the car on the ground. I CANNOT get the damn thing bled.
The service manual talks about unbolting the master, hanging the slave, pushing the plunger in while laying under the car yada yada. To avoid what sounds like a hassle, I searched around on this site and found some information in a couple places that recommend using a Mity Vac. Here is the method:
http://www.performanceworks1.com/ls1...h_bleeding.htm
I dropped $80 today on a Mity Vac, and spent 3+ hours pumping the clutch pedal and pumping the Mity Vac handle, keeping the vacuum at 10-15 inches of Mercury. As of quitting time, I was STILL getting air bubbles, both large and small, through the Mity Vac.
Now, there was SOME progress. When I started, I had no clutch at all, and could not get the T56 into any gear with the car running. I can now get it into 1st and 2nd, and there is some pedal pressure. However, as soon as I put it into gear the back wheels start turning even while the pedal is all the way to the floor. So, while the clutch is allowing me to get into two gears, it seems to be doing nothing as far as engaging/disengaging the trans from the engine. None of the other four gears are available, either...I encounter resistance when I try to select them, even if I pump the clutch.
I started to think maybe there was a leak, and I was sucking air in through that. I cannot find any leaks. I checked the braided hose where it connects to the master and to the slave...bone dry at each connection. I checked the rubber line that goes from the master cylinder reservoir to the master cylinder...no leak. I checked the inside of the car, on the firewall, around the master cylinder and clutch rod...no fluid anywhere. I also made sure, when operating the Mity Vac, that the hose in the master cylinder reservoir had fluid in it at all times, so I was not pulling air into the system.
The link and people say this method should take 5 minutes, I have 3+ hours into it. Any ideas?
09-19-2009, 07:38 PM
#2
Tough Mudder
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$80 for a mity vac! I think they're like $35 here.
I bought the remote clutch bleeder and am thrilled with it. Other guys I know cut a hole in the floorboard where they can crack the bleeder from inside the car. Still other guys I'm friends with actually do it the "right way".
Sorry I can't be more helpful.
I bought the remote clutch bleeder and am thrilled with it. Other guys I know cut a hole in the floorboard where they can crack the bleeder from inside the car. Still other guys I'm friends with actually do it the "right way".
Sorry I can't be more helpful.
09-19-2009, 08:17 PM
#3
Dude it takes 10 minutes to bleed an LT1 master/slave. Open the cap take slave off the car(its 2 bolts) Make sure its lower than the MC, have some add fluid while you pump the slave rod by hand. Once the resivior stops taking fluid and the bubbles stop. Your done.
Mighty vac doesnt work well on the LTX set up.
Mighty vac doesnt work well on the LTX set up.
09-19-2009, 09:12 PM
#4
As for the Mity Vac, the plastic ones might be $35, but the kits with the metal pumps, accessories, case are more.
As for cutting a hole in the floor to get to the bleeder, I think you are confusing my LT1 with an LS1, unless I missed the bleeder.
AC, did you look at the link? That link says the Mity Vac works for LT1 and LS1 cars. I also found people on here, using the search feature, who said it worked on their LT1 cars.
I might give your method a try tomorrow, but I have no one to help me, so I'd have to keep crawling back and forth from the slave to the MC reservoir. That's another reason why I went the Mity Vac route...one-person friendly. I'm still curious WHY I can still be sucking air after 3 hours with a Mity Vac. In other words, where the hell is the air coming from?
As for cutting a hole in the floor to get to the bleeder, I think you are confusing my LT1 with an LS1, unless I missed the bleeder.
AC, did you look at the link? That link says the Mity Vac works for LT1 and LS1 cars. I also found people on here, using the search feature, who said it worked on their LT1 cars.
I might give your method a try tomorrow, but I have no one to help me, so I'd have to keep crawling back and forth from the slave to the MC reservoir. That's another reason why I went the Mity Vac route...one-person friendly. I'm still curious WHY I can still be sucking air after 3 hours with a Mity Vac. In other words, where the hell is the air coming from?
09-19-2009, 09:46 PM
#5
If your alone thats why the instuctions say zip tie the slave to the car below the master, so you can do it from the top.
Ive done this just recently It simple and **** that mighty vac. It sucks dick on a LTX. There is no bleeder ethier. Just the master,line slave.
Ps a 2 yr old could add fluid and watch for bubbles, and the slave gets really tuff to push when its full.
Trust me on this, the directions just make it seem hard but its really simple
Ive done this just recently It simple and **** that mighty vac. It sucks dick on a LTX. There is no bleeder ethier. Just the master,line slave.
Ps a 2 yr old could add fluid and watch for bubbles, and the slave gets really tuff to push when its full.
Trust me on this, the directions just make it seem hard but its really simple
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09-19-2009, 10:12 PM
#9
theres 2 slots on the side of the slave you can slip it out of to bleed it. Then just compress the slave to slip that strap back in. But that strap breaks once you push the clutch anyways.
NOTE DO NOT PUMP THE SLAVE WHILE NOT INSTALLED ON THE TRANS AND HOOKED UP TO THE FORK OR YOULL BREAK IT!
NOTE DO NOT PUMP THE SLAVE WHILE NOT INSTALLED ON THE TRANS AND HOOKED UP TO THE FORK OR YOULL BREAK IT!
09-20-2009, 01:24 PM
#10
Well guys, maybe you can help me some more here. I'm dead in the water.
I checked the clutch rod to see if it could be extended more, both my disconnecting it from the clutch pedal and pulling on it and also loosening the u-bolt nuts and pushing the hole assembly out towards the engine bay. The rod seems to have NO extra movement when disconnected as when connected to the pedal.
I dropped the slave, removed the master reservoir cap, and pushed the slave rod as described. I thought I was making progress, as I heard gurgling sounds. Kept going back and forth between a couple/few pumps of the rod and the reservoir to check on fluid. I did not see any bubbles in the fluid, but did notice the level go down. I at first assumed it was because the system was sucking more fluid in, but then I also realized that in pushing that slave rod, I am causing the fluid in the reservoir to rise. I think I might have spilled some over the sides (I know I did) and this might account for the level being lower.
I buttoned everything back up, and tested. Same condition as last night.
I'll summarize the rest. I repeated this procedure about three times, maybe four. One thing I can see is that the plastic straps on the slave rod/ball have NOT broken, so clearly it has not been fully extended by fluid pressure yet. My dad was here to help me for a short while. While pumping the slave rod, he said there were no bubbles in the reservoir. We hooked the Mity Vac back up and tried that method again. If you just pull a vacuum (10-15 inches) you really don't get any bubbles in the Mity Vac's vinyl tubing. However, if someone starts working the clutch pedal, that's when you get bubbles...lots of them, and big, too.
Even though that slave rod is not extending (as evidenced by the plastic straps not being broken) I was able to get into a couple more gears today i.e. 2nd and 3rd. In 1st and 2nd, the rear wheels move even when the clutch is all the way to the floor. In 3rd or 4th (can't remember which) though, when I started letting the clutch out after selecting the gear, the engine started sounding like it had a load on it.
On another note, how much damage will I have caused by causing the gears to grind once during this testing process? I was trying to select 4th, heard the grinding, and immediately backed off. I'm afraid of the consequences.
I feel like this job should not be this hard, even for an amateur, since I am following everyone's directions. So, what the heck does my above description suggest?
When does the master cylinder begin to be a suspect? What are the symptoms of a bad master?
Thanks for any help. I'm feeling sort of frustrated.
I checked the clutch rod to see if it could be extended more, both my disconnecting it from the clutch pedal and pulling on it and also loosening the u-bolt nuts and pushing the hole assembly out towards the engine bay. The rod seems to have NO extra movement when disconnected as when connected to the pedal.
I dropped the slave, removed the master reservoir cap, and pushed the slave rod as described. I thought I was making progress, as I heard gurgling sounds. Kept going back and forth between a couple/few pumps of the rod and the reservoir to check on fluid. I did not see any bubbles in the fluid, but did notice the level go down. I at first assumed it was because the system was sucking more fluid in, but then I also realized that in pushing that slave rod, I am causing the fluid in the reservoir to rise. I think I might have spilled some over the sides (I know I did) and this might account for the level being lower.
I buttoned everything back up, and tested. Same condition as last night.
I'll summarize the rest. I repeated this procedure about three times, maybe four. One thing I can see is that the plastic straps on the slave rod/ball have NOT broken, so clearly it has not been fully extended by fluid pressure yet. My dad was here to help me for a short while. While pumping the slave rod, he said there were no bubbles in the reservoir. We hooked the Mity Vac back up and tried that method again. If you just pull a vacuum (10-15 inches) you really don't get any bubbles in the Mity Vac's vinyl tubing. However, if someone starts working the clutch pedal, that's when you get bubbles...lots of them, and big, too.
Even though that slave rod is not extending (as evidenced by the plastic straps not being broken) I was able to get into a couple more gears today i.e. 2nd and 3rd. In 1st and 2nd, the rear wheels move even when the clutch is all the way to the floor. In 3rd or 4th (can't remember which) though, when I started letting the clutch out after selecting the gear, the engine started sounding like it had a load on it.
On another note, how much damage will I have caused by causing the gears to grind once during this testing process? I was trying to select 4th, heard the grinding, and immediately backed off. I'm afraid of the consequences.
I feel like this job should not be this hard, even for an amateur, since I am following everyone's directions. So, what the heck does my above description suggest?
When does the master cylinder begin to be a suspect? What are the symptoms of a bad master?
Thanks for any help. I'm feeling sort of frustrated.
09-20-2009, 02:00 PM
#11
I took the strap off to bleed it so it opens all the way. The gurgling sound is how mine sounded when it was sucking in fluid. Keep the fluid level lower untill it stops taking fluid. That way when you pump it it doesnt over flow.
I doubt you messed up the gears
Or just remove the entire thing and do it outside the car on the work table aka bench bleed it.. Again just keep the res & MC above the slave.
I doubt you messed up the gears
Or just remove the entire thing and do it outside the car on the work table aka bench bleed it.. Again just keep the res & MC above the slave.
Last edited by AChotrod; 09-20-2009 at 02:51 PM.
09-20-2009, 04:23 PM
#12
I did take the strap off the bleed, just to be clear. I took it off each time so I could move the plunger and then put it back on the end. The fact that it isn't broken means the slave is not getting fluid pressure, I assume.
But like I said, no bubbles in the reservoir so should I really just continue pumping the slave rod? No bubbles means no progress, right?
But like I said, no bubbles in the reservoir so should I really just continue pumping the slave rod? No bubbles means no progress, right?
09-20-2009, 07:03 PM
#13
I am curious about something. Is this the largest board on the net for LT1 F-bodies? Because, this thread has only had 81 views and only two different people have been kind enough to hop in and try to help. I'm not complaining, but I am curious.
09-21-2009, 03:30 PM
#14
www.LTXtech.com very friendly and all LTX 
About the bubbles it may take them awhile if the entire assembally was dry. The slave rod should get very tough to push once its all bled.
Another suggestion if you have some cash laying around. Just get a new assembally that comes pre bled and forget about it.
About the bubbles it may take them awhile if the entire assembally was dry. The slave rod should get very tough to push once its all bled.
Another suggestion if you have some cash laying around. Just get a new assembally that comes pre bled and forget about it.
