Squirts11

iTrader: (14)

I've been a reader on this site for several years, but never actually made an account until recently. Here's my situation fellas.
Have a 2000 WS6 A4 with 62k miles. Full bolt on car (minus the pulley) with 3.73 gears. For multiple reasons, I'm not doing an aftermarket stall with this cam swap (i.e. I never go to the track, budget purposes, 100% daily driver, etc.) I feel as if I have a decent gameplan for doing this swap myself, but wanted to see if anyone had any good advice/tips (other than "get a stall..." lol)

Parts:
-TSP 224/224 581/581 114 LSA -(I would love a 112 for the choppy idle, but I fear without a converter this might want to push through the brakes...)
-Either Comp 918's or equivalent PAC beehive springs (I've heard horror stories about 918's)
-7.400 hardened pushrods
-LS2 timing chain (Do I need to upgrade the gears as well?)
-LS6 Oil pump- (Ported oil pump necessary?)

Tools (other than torque wrenches, breaker bar, etc)
-Pulley puller
-Tim's spring compressor
-I'll have to order some All-thread (grade 8) w/ washers, nuts, etc to reinstall my harmonic balancer.
**I would have loved to have purchased the balancer install tool that a previous user on here once sold (I believe his name was Hawk something), but I suppose he isn't making them anymore)
-Air compressor adapter for spark plug socket


Q's
-I can reuse my valve seats, retainers, etc right?
-Do lifters need to be replaced?
-How do I measure spring height to 1.800? Do I need a spring height mic?
-Also, perhaps my biggest concern is the flywheel locking tool I'll need to remove the balancer. Curious as to whether there was a cheaper alternative to Kent Moore's tool.
-And finally, while it kills me to ask such a noobish question, how exactly do I bolt it to the flywheel?

Cliffnotes:
-Looking for tips for my 1st cam install. Just making sure I have the important parts/ideas.
-Flywheel locking tool help.

Thanks for the help guys.

Squirts11

iTrader: (14)

Whew...hopefully somebody reads that and can give their 2 cents

89LS1RS

iTrader: (1)

you dont need a tool to hold the flywheel, there is a tool that holds the balancer itself. or use a screwdriver/prybar/flywheel holder to hold flywheel/flexplate, no big deal. kent moore tool does look like you bolt it on to bellhousing boltholes, and has teeth that engage the flywheel and keep it from turning. you need a mic to check installed height. you can get a timing set from yank on here for a good price.includes crank and cam sprockets. if you have the money, a new oil pump is good, and more pressure and/or volume is good.

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

A stall will really wake that thing up. You'll eventually want to get one, or do an M6 swap.
Thats a good cam, I went with a 228 114 LSA, almost wish I went with the 112 LSA. My first cam install on one of these engines back in April.

I went with PRC duals, didnt want to worry about the 918s breaking.
7.400 hardened pushrods
LS2 chain only, I used the stock gears on both cam & crank( if you degree your cam, get an adjustable setup) Next cam I install will get degreed in. You'll need a degree wheel & they start at $90. You dont absolutely need this, just checks the accuracy of the cam. Very important if youre installin a high lift high duration cam to prevent PTV interference.

LS6 ported oil pump, why not get the better one?
Get a new oil pump o-ring too. You'll have to remove the oil pan bolts & lower the oil pan to replace the oil pump.
Gasket set for timing cover & water pump. You can reuse you valve cover gaskets.
.

I bought the Tims spring tool, worked great. I had the other stuff you have on your list already. I bought a 48 inch wood dowel rod, believe it was 5/16 dia. Cut it in half, slide them into your oil galleys to prevent the lifters from falling into the oil pan. Buy an ARP balancer bolt, its longer than stock & if you take the washer off you can use it to install the balancer. Then of course reinstall the washer & torque it down. At $25 theyre not cheap, but does work great for installin the balancer.

If the springs you buy have seats & retainers, use them. Mine came with seats & retainers so I didnt use the stock ones. Most springs dont work with stock hardware. I did use my stock valve locks though.
No they dont.
Thats not absolutely necessary, just install your springs.



I tried getting one of these, theyre about $50 from Kent Moore. Flywheel locking tools are sold on ebay, the LS tool wasnt listed when I looked. I used a prybar & wedged it through the spokes of the balancer to torque it. I wouldve rather got the tool.

Quote:

-And finally, while it kills me to ask such a noobish question, how exactly do I bolt it to the flywheel?

It bolts to one of the flywheel cover bolts down by the starter. You remove one of the bolts & it wedges in against the flywheel teeth.
I hope this helps you out.
Youre on the right track, looks like you pretty much know what you'll need though for the most part.

Squirts11

iTrader: (14)

Thanks for the advice guys. Anybody else have input?

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

The kent moore tool bolts to the 2 bolts that hold the starter up. So the starter has to completely be removed. That being said, it works fantastic and I have used mine several times since buying it. I would also buy 7.425 pushrods as the base circles on aftermarket cams are about .025 smaller in radius measurement. The longer pushrod makes up for that. Also, the PAC and 918s use all your existing hardware so only the springs get swapped, no need to worry with seats, retainers, seals, or anything else. Good luck.

Damian

iTrader: (89)

Good advice in here.

The beauty of a Comp 918 Spring/224ish cam swap is you don't really need to check spring height. With a cam that mild just dropping the springs in will be sufficient. I do not advocate that on all cam swaps however, but the smaller 220-224 cams with the milder lobes can get away with it.

mknight759

iTrader: (8)

i think you should measure for the pushrod lenghth to make sure and degree the cam no way to tell what you really have your just taking someone's word for it once you crank it if it goes wrong its to late to go back and i think a stall would help out more than you would think its gonna be chokeing on the bottom end tsp sells just the ls2 chain for around 40 the oil pump you have should be fine your not gonna be turning that many more rpm's timing chain probably ok to I have seen several supercharged ones pushing 450-500 on all stock parts but there is nothing wrong with an upgrade i asked a few times on how strong all the stock components are but you just get all sorts of answers that are nowere close to each other

DUSTYWS6

Howdy,

I just read your post about your upcoming cam swap. If you're interested, I could rent you my Kent Moore flywheel locking tool. I bought it for my cam swap that I did a couple of months back. I didn't feel comfortable jamming a screw driver in my flyweel, and after the cam swap, I'm glad I bought the tool. It's a nice piece, you take out two bolts to remove the starter and you bolt this piece where was starter bolted using the starter bolts. If you're interested, just let me know. I would ask for a $30 USPS money order and a $50 USPS money order for a security deposit which I would send back to you. If you're interested, I also bought the dual valve spring removal tool from LS1 speed which is a knock-off of the crane tool. If you would like to rent that as well, I would ask for another $20 and an additional $100 added to the security desposit which I'll return. The valve spring tool is in great shape, I only used it during my cam swap and it works well for the hard to reach valve springs near the rear of the engine. Just let me know. My e-mail address is SavannahGTP@comcast.net

Adam

Squirts11

iTrader: (14)

Dustyws6,

Thanks for the offer, but I might be able to get ahold of the flywheel locking tool from a buddy who works at a GM dealership, I just needed to know exactly how to use it. However, if this falls through, I'll prob shoot you a pm.

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

I didnt know that about the pushrods. I bought the 7.400 ones. I am thinkin I should get a pushrod length checker tool, & or get some longer pushrods for mine.

mknight759

iTrader: (8)

check the pushrods here is a way to do it without the tool I copied this out of another thread

FWIW, EVERY cam install I have done using the LS7 lifter with a cam with greater than .600" lift (read smaller base circle) AND stock heads w/GM MLS gaskets has taken 7.425" pushrods for ~.050"-.060" preload. We measure lifter preload on each and every cam install we do. I have never had a lifter failure nor do we end up with the dreaded "sewing machine" noise.

Its very simple, If you change ANY of the following:
valve sizes, valve job, head milling, thinner/thicker head gaskets, decked block, cam with an altered base circle, etc... YOU MUST CHECK FOR PROPER PUSHROD LENGTH.

I have helped countless numbers of individuals with this process over the phone, via email, and PM's. I've posted the process on at least 3 occasions.

Here it is again in a nutshell:

1. Using the EO/IC method, get the lifter to the base circle of the cam.
2. Using a known length pushrod (7.400" is a good start with stock rockers) run the rocker arm bolt down to zero lash. This is easily done with your fingers "wiggling" the rocker, the point at which the "slack" is just gone is zero lash.
3. Set your torque wrench to 22 lb./ft. Tighten the rocker to full torque and count the number of turns it takes to get there. 1 full turn wtih a stock 8mm X 1.25 bolt is ~.047" preload as measured at the pushrod/rocker interface.
4. I normally shoot for 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 turns with stock type lifters like Comp 850's, LS1, LS7 etc.

For an example, if you use a 7.400" pushrod and come up with 3/4 of a turn, you will need at least .025" longer pushrod to get into range. If you end up with 2 1/4 turns, you will need one .025" shorter...

I might not know everything but I will tell you that this method has worked for me year after year cam swap after cam swap. We average 3 cam swaps a week here so you can do the math.

If you are not familiar with the EO/IC method for determining valve events in a 4 stroke engine, its very simple:
For a given cylinder as the Exhaust valve is Opening, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that intake valve.
For a given cylinder as the Intake valve is Closing, the exhaust lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that exhaust valve.

THIS METHOD ALWAYS WORKS!!!

I hope this helps someone. I have explained it so many times I think I do it in my sleep!!!

Shane

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

Thats great info, I definitely will try it. Thanks.

voda1

iTrader: (4)

Tip: resist the urge to pull the lifters out - wait until you have cleaned the block deck and bolt holes. Reason being that it will reduce the chance of getting dirt in the left lifter galley oil passage which feeds oil directly down to the main bearings.

spec_j

iTrader: (3)

Going to send this to the TOP for some good information..... Helped me a lot with my cam questions!!

Redchevy1540

Id get the pushrod lenth checker and the valve height micrometer because the valve heights can be different....I bout the prc 625 beehives with the same cam and pushrods one spring cracked on me .I do not know what the install height was on tyat valve because it is bent now but I got a measurement on 1 an it was 1.775 idk if that would cause it to break or not