sabastian458

iTrader: (5)

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26461 Original Thread.

Ok, I have spent 2 days figuring this out and now I need a little help.

Vehicle- 2005 GTO LS2 (6.0L) M6-
It has stock 33lb injectors and I am upgrading to 60lb'ers. Siemons 60lb P/N 108191 to be exact.

Here is my math I came up with to change my Injector Flow rate VS KPA VAC table. I used the conversion table in HP Tuners to find out the flow rate at 58 rail psi.

Rating of 43.5PSI;
59.5lb @ 43.5= 68.7LB's @ 58psi
68.7/33.08= 2.076784

Now from what I can find is that I use 2.076784 in the IFR Multiplier/common denominator in the box next to =, + and x, in the Injector Flow rate VS KPA VAC table. Correct?

The scalings I come up with is in attached spread sheet, called "Injector scalings". I have listed: stock scaling, scalings for 43.5 psi. The problem I am having is either scaling, HP Tuners maxes out the values at "63.49257" and will not go higher. What am I missing?

Thank you for any input.

**EDIT**
I have found that some people recomend changing the AFR stoich value.

AFR stoich value * (NewInjector/OldInjector)= Replacement AFR stoich value.

This is the direction I will attempt first. But I need to get the pulse limits and adders, etc for the siemens injectors.


Credit for information used-

Injecotor scaling formulas- http://www.robertsnitrousservice.com...ingwriteup.htm

AFR stoich value * (NewInjector/OldInjector)= Replacement AFR stoich value. - andrewzpsu from ls1gto.com

Injector flow vs volts data
http://injector-rehab.com/kbse/lag.htm

Injector data I have found.

Coil Resistance: 12.5 Ohms / High Impedance / High-Z (No ECM driver modifications required)
Static Flow Rate @ 43.5PSI ( 300kPa ) w/Gas: 60 lb/hr = 630 cc/min = 453 g/min
Static Flow Rate @ 87PSI ( 600kPa ) w/Gas: 85.7 lb/hr = 900 cc/min = 648 g/min
Gain: 0.11ms/mg
Offset: 0.055ms
Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms
Turn off time: 0.85ms @ 600KPa
Connector: USCAR EV6
Series: DEKA 4 ( DEKA IV )
Orifice Type: Multi-orifice
Spray Pattern: 30 Degree Spray Cone
Factory fitted with Viton upper and lower o-rings
CC/min Flow- 630
LB/Hr- 60
Ohm- 12

Is this what I put into the "Injector Flow Rate Modifier VS Battery Voltage? IF so, where/how can I get the values for 5v-9v, as they are just listed as "1.000"
10v- 0.83
11v- 0.64
12v- 0.50
13v- 0.38
14v- 0.28
15V- 0.17

sabastian458

iTrader: (5)

Ok, so I was just told by WS6FirebirdTA00, that changing the AFR stoich value should never be done. So thats out.

carlrx7

i have no idea what your trying to do..

i run the 60lb injectors

you scale them by either 75% or 50%. then do the same for any airmass units, or x-y axis's.

-carl

Matt@SNLPerformance

iTrader: (1)

Don't forget that by scaling your aimass tables that your dynamic air will be artificially lower and to make changes to the tables that reference it.

slow

iTrader: (7)

you don't change stoich for an injector change.

ideally you don't scale the data either (you will have to scale some due to the 60# limit of the E40 ecm) but you shoudl be providing your own injector data, scale by a factor necessary to fit into the ECM, and then enter that data into your processor.

Ryan

sabastian458

iTrader: (5)

I am trying to get my "injector data" What I know about the injectors is that they are rated at 60lbs @ 43.5 psi, which equates to 69.28LB's @ 58psi. Other than that, I have no other information. And trying to get that information is crazy. The basic responses that I have found when searching is to purchase a $250 dvd that only covers FORD injectors and not the ones I have. This is becoming more of a burden than it should be.

The software should come with all the support and technical help I require, as does any other software out there. Mitsu guys have it easy, all this stuff is free.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

The software has a ton of support, the injectors are what you need help with, not the software. It would be like being mad at HPTuners because they don't have the best timing MAP for your setup.

That DVD covers injectors that are USED by Ford, not Ford injectors. It has the data such as offset for the units that you are holding right now...

NicD

iTrader: (7)

There are ways of getting around that injector max limit without having to scale every load table you see, especially the ones you can't see or are hard coded since you can't do anything about those and yes it deals with the AFR stoich value.

sabastian458

iTrader: (5)

bump for new injector data and for question at the end of post 1

sabastian458

iTrader: (5)

Ok, so I posted over on HP tuners 2 days ago. I do have Greg's DVD now, and I have input the injector data that is supplied with it. But now I am still hitting the 63.5 limit, which is NOT covered in the DVD.

I need to know what tables I need to scale. I have ask, and 1 person over there has said they are looking for their scaled tune, but I figured I would ask here as well to try to speed things along.

[a lil ranting] Kinda dont understand why I can not scale the AFR way instead of scaling 30 other tables in the ECU. So far my car has ran better with the AFR scaling than with the new injector data. Im fustrated and would like for someone to clarify WHAT tables to scale instead of just saying "you should just scale by 75 or 80 percent"

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

You are putting 60# injectors on what kind of motor?

I think you'd be better off setting up a manifold
referenced fuel pressure regulator and put the pressure
where it makes 63lb/hr delivery by the calcs. Because
you don't need all that shot at idle anyway, and you
had best not be counting on 58PSI rail at the big end
if you're still running with an in-tank regulator.

sabastian458

iTrader: (5)

This is working on a 2005 gto LS2 with the E40 ecu. Simmiens 60 lb injectors. I can not spend $500-1000 to do a return style fuel system, I wish but cant


Thankfully JoeCiv came thru and supplied me with a list of the tables that need to be scaled and which way they need to be scaled (multiplied down or copy and paste down)

Doc99SS

iTrader: (2)

I assume that your LS2 is forced fed,,, that would be the only reason why you would need 60#/hr injectors, right?

sabastian458

iTrader: (5)

negitive as of yet. Going with large n2o spray and want the extra room for injector. Force fed is a later (year or longer) possibility. Plus I got good deal on these.

So far, I think I have got the roughings of a tune to start out with.

I scaled all the tables that use g/cyl down 80% either by multiplying by .8 or shifting down the axis by 20% depending on the table being modified. Big thanks to JoeCiv on the hptuner forum for getting the list of tables needing modified for me

turbolx

...because if you need fuel flow beyond 63.5lb/hr per cylinder, you're probably also moving more than 512g/s total airflow (or 1.26g/cyl) too. If you have to scale one, you probably have to scale both.