True or False- Who has the best design!
11-04-2009, 03:04 AM
#1
True or False- Who has the best design! Understanding why The Nitrous Outlet plate is the best EFI plate available and how to determine BS marketing claims VS Facts!
I have been in the performance industries for many years. During my time in the nitrous industry I have paid attention to nitrous ads placed in magazines, TV shows, web forums and any other method of advertisement.
During this time I have seen a lot of misleading marketing pitches in many ads. In many cases the claims were not just exaggerations but flat out a lie. While many of these ads do make me a little angry I do find some of them humorous. The reason for the anger is that these companies placing these misleading ads or making false claims strive on the lack of knowledge of the consumer in order to sale there product. These companies strive on the fact that the consumer has an innocent ignorance to the matter due to the fact the knowledge the consumer has is what the manufactures educated them with. Therefore the manufacture has the opportunity to produce claims and advertisements that the average consumer would have know way of knowing if it is a line of BS or facts.
In many cases these false claims are nothing more than a pitch or a way for the company to claim there design is better than the next. However in some cases the claims are misleading and if taken in the wrong context could be hazardous to some ones engine.
It is up to you to find a safe source for information and to use a little common since when determining what is true or false. It is also up to you not to fall prey to marketing tactics
Here are some examples of ads that come to my mind.
There is a company out there that had printed adds that claimed you could gain as much as 15 horse power by simply taking out a competitors nitrous bottle and using one of there nitrous bottles. The add leaves you to believe just simply swap a nitrous bottle out and make an extra 15 hp with out any other changes. Well let’s use a little common since here and question that theory.
If you were able to pick up 15 hp from simply changing out the nitrous bottle and not changing the nitrous jet this means that your bottle was restricting flow to the nitrous jet. If you were at a horse power level to where the bottle valve in the bottle was restricting flow and you changed the bottle out to a bottle that had a valve capable of flowing higher levels of nitrous what do you think would happen?
Well a little common since will tell you that if you increase nitrous flow and do not increase fuel flow the system will go lean therefore needing the tune altered. This is not mentioned in the ad. Nor is the fact that the only way you will gain HP is if you are spraying horse power levels above what your current bottle valve is capable of efficiently supporting.
So to sum it up if you were maxing out the flow capabilities of your current bottle valve yes switching out the nitrous bottle may increase the horse power. However if you were an average guy spraying an average amount of nitrous and bought this bottle thinking you were going to magically pick up 15 horse power from simply switching out the nitrous bottle you have just thrown your hard earned money down the gutter.
This is an example of an ad that can be true but only under certain circumstances.
The biggest misleading ad that is pretty recent that really gets under my skin is an ad by a company that claims that with there system it will magically adjust the air fuel ratio according to the bottle pressure. Because of the way the ads are worded many consumers get the impression there is no need for a tune with this system and it will safely adjust the air fuel on its own.
The ad is very misleading. In many cases people have purchased this system with the understanding there was no need for tuning.
To better explain the claim that the system will adjust the air fuel ratio accordingly comes from you would have to understand nozzle design. With out getting to technical just about any properly designed nozzle has a vacuum that is created when the nitrous discharge cuts across the fuel discharge on the tip of the nozzle. The company is relying on the fact that as the bottle pressure increases or decreases it will pull different amounts of vacuum as the pressure goes up or down therefore slightly adjusting the nitrous to fuel ratio.
Well with a little engine knowledge you know every engine burns differently. This is the reason why the suggested jetting from any nitrous manufacture is nothing more than a starting point on the tune up. For example using the same suggested jetting on one engine may be rich while the next is lean.
Well using a little common since based off that knowledge you would know that unless there is something there to physically increase the restriction jet or decrease the restriction jet at the nozzle there no way it is going to adjust the air fuel on its on. There is only so much that a small fluctuation in bottle pressure is going to achieve. Therefore odds are if you bought this system and tried to use it with the understanding it would magically adjust the air fuel you may be putting an engine in your vehicle.
Here is an example of advertisements used by manufactures that hurts American jobs and ruins quality expectations in our country.
There are manufactures selling products that they claim are USA made when is all actuality they are cheap out of the country produced products. In one case a company that gets products made from China stamps Made in the USA on them. Now this makes me so mad I can’t even explain my feelings towards it.
I have been in the performance industries for many years. During my time in the nitrous industry I have paid attention to nitrous ads placed in magazines, TV shows, web forums and any other method of advertisement.
During this time I have seen a lot of misleading marketing pitches in many ads. In many cases the claims were not just exaggerations but flat out a lie. While many of these ads do make me a little angry I do find some of them humorous. The reason for the anger is that these companies placing these misleading ads or making false claims strive on the lack of knowledge of the consumer in order to sale there product. These companies strive on the fact that the consumer has an innocent ignorance to the matter due to the fact the knowledge the consumer has is what the manufactures educated them with. Therefore the manufacture has the opportunity to produce claims and advertisements that the average consumer would have know way of knowing if it is a line of BS or facts.
In many cases these false claims are nothing more than a pitch or a way for the company to claim there design is better than the next. However in some cases the claims are misleading and if taken in the wrong context could be hazardous to some ones engine.
It is up to you to find a safe source for information and to use a little common since when determining what is true or false. It is also up to you not to fall prey to marketing tactics
Here are some examples of ads that come to my mind.
There is a company out there that had printed adds that claimed you could gain as much as 15 horse power by simply taking out a competitors nitrous bottle and using one of there nitrous bottles. The add leaves you to believe just simply swap a nitrous bottle out and make an extra 15 hp with out any other changes. Well let’s use a little common since here and question that theory.
If you were able to pick up 15 hp from simply changing out the nitrous bottle and not changing the nitrous jet this means that your bottle was restricting flow to the nitrous jet. If you were at a horse power level to where the bottle valve in the bottle was restricting flow and you changed the bottle out to a bottle that had a valve capable of flowing higher levels of nitrous what do you think would happen?
Well a little common since will tell you that if you increase nitrous flow and do not increase fuel flow the system will go lean therefore needing the tune altered. This is not mentioned in the ad. Nor is the fact that the only way you will gain HP is if you are spraying horse power levels above what your current bottle valve is capable of efficiently supporting.
So to sum it up if you were maxing out the flow capabilities of your current bottle valve yes switching out the nitrous bottle may increase the horse power. However if you were an average guy spraying an average amount of nitrous and bought this bottle thinking you were going to magically pick up 15 horse power from simply switching out the nitrous bottle you have just thrown your hard earned money down the gutter.
This is an example of an ad that can be true but only under certain circumstances.
The biggest misleading ad that is pretty recent that really gets under my skin is an ad by a company that claims that with there system it will magically adjust the air fuel ratio according to the bottle pressure. Because of the way the ads are worded many consumers get the impression there is no need for a tune with this system and it will safely adjust the air fuel on its own.
The ad is very misleading. In many cases people have purchased this system with the understanding there was no need for tuning.
To better explain the claim that the system will adjust the air fuel ratio accordingly comes from you would have to understand nozzle design. With out getting to technical just about any properly designed nozzle has a vacuum that is created when the nitrous discharge cuts across the fuel discharge on the tip of the nozzle. The company is relying on the fact that as the bottle pressure increases or decreases it will pull different amounts of vacuum as the pressure goes up or down therefore slightly adjusting the nitrous to fuel ratio.
Well with a little engine knowledge you know every engine burns differently. This is the reason why the suggested jetting from any nitrous manufacture is nothing more than a starting point on the tune up. For example using the same suggested jetting on one engine may be rich while the next is lean.
Well using a little common since based off that knowledge you would know that unless there is something there to physically increase the restriction jet or decrease the restriction jet at the nozzle there no way it is going to adjust the air fuel on its on. There is only so much that a small fluctuation in bottle pressure is going to achieve. Therefore odds are if you bought this system and tried to use it with the understanding it would magically adjust the air fuel you may be putting an engine in your vehicle.
Here is an example of advertisements used by manufactures that hurts American jobs and ruins quality expectations in our country.
There are manufactures selling products that they claim are USA made when is all actuality they are cheap out of the country produced products. In one case a company that gets products made from China stamps Made in the USA on them. Now this makes me so mad I can’t even explain my feelings towards it.
11-04-2009, 03:05 AM
#2
This is how they get away with these down right out lies. Our laws state that as long as the product is assembled here in the USA they can claim they are a Made in the USA Product.
So you may be thinking you are purchasing a quality machined product made in the USA when in reality you are supporting a company that is selling cheaply made products produced out of the country.
The problem with supporting these companies is that you are unknowingly supporting a company that has ruined American jobs for you, your neighbor, your friend, your children and I. Not only that, odds are the quality of the product you are purchasing is not what it has been presented to be. While the products coming from out of the country may seem the same to the untrained individual I guarantee you there is a huge variance in quality.
So the question is, are you sure you really purchased a product Made in the USA!
Now that you have an idea of how marketing can be misleading let’s talk about the most common misleading advertisement no Nitrous Manufacture wants you to know.
All Nitrous manufactures claim that there plate or nozzle is the best atomizing design out there. You will see claims from point of discharge to the amount of discharges into the intake plenum.
Truth is that there are designs that are better than others. The area the manufactures depend on you not knowing is to what extent is a product better than the next or is it a line of marketing BS.
Well I am going to tell you.
The Nitrous industry has changed a great deal over the years. The product designs have greatly improved and so has the knowledge of the manufactures as well as the knowledge of the consumer. As a result the nitrous industry has become very competitive. The truth is there are companies that spend a lot of time and money in R&D to bring new innovative products to market and there are a lot companies waiting to steal those ideas and designs to cheaply imamate and market designs as there own idea. As new designs hit the market just about any company will say there new design is better than the last to increase sales. The question is, is it really the next best thing? This is up to the company to prove and for you to have enough knowledge to know if it is a line of BS or facts.
The most commonly advertised improvement is discharge delivery. In many cases over the years certain designs have moved the nitrous industry forward by leaps and bounds improving the point of atomization into the intake air flow path.
If you read any plate or nozzle advertisement from any company you will notice that the ad claims there design has the best atomizing discharge available.
Hmm well if they all claim that whose is really the best?
Truth is that there are certain designs that work best in certain applications. For example if you were using a nozzle system on a EFI application that placed a single nozzle into the side of the cold air inlet tube feeding into the throttle body a 90 degree discharge nozzle would be the ideal nozzle of choice to introduce the discharge into the air intake stream. If you were to use a nozzle that blew strait out of the tip of the nozzle it would bounce off the wall on the opposite side of the tube and the nitrous and fuel would not atomize into the air intake stream.
On some direct port applications that have a nozzle mounted into each intake runner you may not be able to use that same 90 degree nozzle due to mounting location. If you tried to use the 90 degree nozzle it may blow the discharge into the side of the intake runner. So in this case the strait blow through nozzle would be a better choice screwed into some bungs welded into the intake runners.
My point is that in some cases one design may be better suited for a certain application.
Now let’s talk about Nozzle discharge. The tip of a nitrous nozzle has what is referred to as the bathtub. The bathtub design at the tip of the nozzle will deter main how well the nitrous and fuel collide. This point of collision is where the fuel and nitrous become an atomized mixture. It is important that the fuel and nitrous mix together.
There is a point to which the discharge designs have achieved the results to where the nitrous and fuel can not mix any better than they are.
The other advertised claim with a nozzle design is the efficiency of the flow through the nozzle. Inner passage size will determine the amount of flow flowing through the nozzle. The less turns and bends in the flow direction the better the nozzle will flow.
If you were to do a flow comparison test on many of the different nozzles on the market today you would find results that many of the different designs show the same flow and atomized results.
Now do not take this as all nozzles are equal because there are still poor designs on the market.
Other than flow results with the nozzles machining quality, style, and design can make a big difference in the over all quality of a nozzle. So even some nozzles that flow similar may have a huge quality difference,
Now let’s talk about Nitrous Plates.
So you may be thinking you are purchasing a quality machined product made in the USA when in reality you are supporting a company that is selling cheaply made products produced out of the country.
The problem with supporting these companies is that you are unknowingly supporting a company that has ruined American jobs for you, your neighbor, your friend, your children and I. Not only that, odds are the quality of the product you are purchasing is not what it has been presented to be. While the products coming from out of the country may seem the same to the untrained individual I guarantee you there is a huge variance in quality.
So the question is, are you sure you really purchased a product Made in the USA!
Now that you have an idea of how marketing can be misleading let’s talk about the most common misleading advertisement no Nitrous Manufacture wants you to know.
All Nitrous manufactures claim that there plate or nozzle is the best atomizing design out there. You will see claims from point of discharge to the amount of discharges into the intake plenum.
Truth is that there are designs that are better than others. The area the manufactures depend on you not knowing is to what extent is a product better than the next or is it a line of marketing BS.
Well I am going to tell you.
The Nitrous industry has changed a great deal over the years. The product designs have greatly improved and so has the knowledge of the manufactures as well as the knowledge of the consumer. As a result the nitrous industry has become very competitive. The truth is there are companies that spend a lot of time and money in R&D to bring new innovative products to market and there are a lot companies waiting to steal those ideas and designs to cheaply imamate and market designs as there own idea. As new designs hit the market just about any company will say there new design is better than the last to increase sales. The question is, is it really the next best thing? This is up to the company to prove and for you to have enough knowledge to know if it is a line of BS or facts.
The most commonly advertised improvement is discharge delivery. In many cases over the years certain designs have moved the nitrous industry forward by leaps and bounds improving the point of atomization into the intake air flow path.
If you read any plate or nozzle advertisement from any company you will notice that the ad claims there design has the best atomizing discharge available.
Hmm well if they all claim that whose is really the best?
Truth is that there are certain designs that work best in certain applications. For example if you were using a nozzle system on a EFI application that placed a single nozzle into the side of the cold air inlet tube feeding into the throttle body a 90 degree discharge nozzle would be the ideal nozzle of choice to introduce the discharge into the air intake stream. If you were to use a nozzle that blew strait out of the tip of the nozzle it would bounce off the wall on the opposite side of the tube and the nitrous and fuel would not atomize into the air intake stream.
On some direct port applications that have a nozzle mounted into each intake runner you may not be able to use that same 90 degree nozzle due to mounting location. If you tried to use the 90 degree nozzle it may blow the discharge into the side of the intake runner. So in this case the strait blow through nozzle would be a better choice screwed into some bungs welded into the intake runners.
My point is that in some cases one design may be better suited for a certain application.
Now let’s talk about Nozzle discharge. The tip of a nitrous nozzle has what is referred to as the bathtub. The bathtub design at the tip of the nozzle will deter main how well the nitrous and fuel collide. This point of collision is where the fuel and nitrous become an atomized mixture. It is important that the fuel and nitrous mix together.
There is a point to which the discharge designs have achieved the results to where the nitrous and fuel can not mix any better than they are.
The other advertised claim with a nozzle design is the efficiency of the flow through the nozzle. Inner passage size will determine the amount of flow flowing through the nozzle. The less turns and bends in the flow direction the better the nozzle will flow.
If you were to do a flow comparison test on many of the different nozzles on the market today you would find results that many of the different designs show the same flow and atomized results.
Now do not take this as all nozzles are equal because there are still poor designs on the market.
Other than flow results with the nozzles machining quality, style, and design can make a big difference in the over all quality of a nozzle. So even some nozzles that flow similar may have a huge quality difference,
Now let’s talk about Nitrous Plates.
Last edited by Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet; 11-04-2009 at 09:32 AM.
11-04-2009, 03:06 AM
#3
Carbureted Nitrous plates have come along ways over the years. We have gone from standard brass tube plates to billet plates with the discharges made into the plate. Every company claims there plate works better than the next. The fact of the matter is the intake cylinders are going to pull the mixture in how ever they choose. While you can manipulate the area the discharge is released you can not force feed the intake cylinders with a plate.
In some cases a brass tube plate will do the same job a newly designed perimeter style plate will achieve.
However there are intakes that if using a brass tube plate where the discharge holes do not feed to the corners it will cause inadequate delivery to the cylinders and possibly lead to engine failure. In this circumstance a properly designed perimeter plate would be a much better option.
This is where it gets tricky. Every manufacture claims there plate is better. Well again you can only break up the mixture and atomize it to a certain extent.
I suggest taking the plate you choose to use and bolt it to the intake manifold and flow it to verify the discharge is spraying into the vicinity of the intake runners. Keep in mind when the carburetor butter flies open up and the air comes gushing in the cylinders will pull the mixture in however they choose.
Now lets talk about Fuel injected Nitrous plates. Many of the same rules apply when it comes to breaking up the discharge with a fuel injected plate. Again at some point you have broken up the discharge points and atomized the mixture to a point it can not get any better.
As like with a carbureted plate you will introduce the atomized discharge into the air flow path into the intake manifold plenum. When the nitrous and fuel discharge atomizes into the air stream entering the intake plenum the cylinders will pull this discharge in however they choose.
EFI Nitrous Plates have come along way in technology as well. Years ago the nitrous plates available to market aimed the discharge at the back of the intake plenum. The problem with this design is that with some intake designs as the user stepped up on the amount of nitrous they were injecting into the front of the intake plenum the discharge would skip the front runners and over power the back cylinders.
Nitrous Outlet put over a year of R&D into EFI plate design to bring to market a design than what was currently being offered on the market. After 3 different designs and a year of testing, a design was introduced that would change the fuel injected nitrous market.
We designed and built every thing from single port discharge to 360 degree discharge before determining the best design possible.
In some cases a brass tube plate will do the same job a newly designed perimeter style plate will achieve.
However there are intakes that if using a brass tube plate where the discharge holes do not feed to the corners it will cause inadequate delivery to the cylinders and possibly lead to engine failure. In this circumstance a properly designed perimeter plate would be a much better option.
This is where it gets tricky. Every manufacture claims there plate is better. Well again you can only break up the mixture and atomize it to a certain extent.
I suggest taking the plate you choose to use and bolt it to the intake manifold and flow it to verify the discharge is spraying into the vicinity of the intake runners. Keep in mind when the carburetor butter flies open up and the air comes gushing in the cylinders will pull the mixture in however they choose.
Now lets talk about Fuel injected Nitrous plates. Many of the same rules apply when it comes to breaking up the discharge with a fuel injected plate. Again at some point you have broken up the discharge points and atomized the mixture to a point it can not get any better.
As like with a carbureted plate you will introduce the atomized discharge into the air flow path into the intake manifold plenum. When the nitrous and fuel discharge atomizes into the air stream entering the intake plenum the cylinders will pull this discharge in however they choose.
EFI Nitrous Plates have come along way in technology as well. Years ago the nitrous plates available to market aimed the discharge at the back of the intake plenum. The problem with this design is that with some intake designs as the user stepped up on the amount of nitrous they were injecting into the front of the intake plenum the discharge would skip the front runners and over power the back cylinders.
Nitrous Outlet put over a year of R&D into EFI plate design to bring to market a design than what was currently being offered on the market. After 3 different designs and a year of testing, a design was introduced that would change the fuel injected nitrous market.
We designed and built every thing from single port discharge to 360 degree discharge before determining the best design possible.
Last edited by Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet; 11-04-2009 at 11:57 AM.
11-04-2009, 03:07 AM
#4
Keep in mind like described above there is a point to where you have broken up the discharge as much as possible to create a properly atomized entry into the air intake stream. On an average there is somewhere around 750 CFM worth of air flowing into the intake plenum through the throttle body. The key to a properly designed plate is to introduce the discharge into the air flow steam saturating the air stream with an evenly atomized mixture of fuel and nitrous.
We found that using a single point of exit into the air intake flow path we were not evenly saturating the air intake flow stream and that with the 360 degree discharge we were only surrounding the airflow stream entering the intake plenum and the discharge could not completely mix into the air flow stream completely saturating the entire plenum area.
We also found that with the 360 degree design there was an excess area of drag restriction with in the plate. With the nitrous flowing around 950 to 1050 PSI and the fuel flowing no more than 60 PSI we seen a delay in response time of delivery with the fuel discharge compared to the nitrous discharge. This would create a huge lean spike which is a proven fact with current 180 degree discharge plates that are currently on the market. The commonly used band aid for this poor design is to use a shorter fuel hose compared to the nitrous hose from the solenoids to the plate.
With the design we released we were able to create a product that was capable of flowing enough nitrous and fuel to supporting horse power levels up to 400 horse power.
Not only were we able to create a precise fitting product that was capable of flowing large amounts of nitrous and fuel with out the drag restrictions we were able to produce a product that atomized a precise discharge saturating the air intake flow path..
Now since earlier in this discussion we discussed false advertisement claims do you want to know how to determine if my information is BS or facts?
I will tell you how.
No mater what any manufacture tells you no one can repeat the actual atmosphere of inside the intake manifold. It is a fact that as the air flow enters the intake plenum the cylinders will digest the flow pulling it in as they choose. Like stated above with Nitrous the art is introducing an precise atomized mixture into the air stream in a manner to saturate the air stream with out causing a rise in cylinder temperatures from a lean condition or restricting airflow.
Well since there is no way to create the actual atmosphere in the intake plenum the most accurate and only way to know how a products design works and is atomizing into the air stream is to read the spark plugs. The spark plugs are the only point of information to tell you what is taking place in each combustion chamber.
If you have a product that is not delivering equal amounts of flow to each cylinder the plugs will tell you.
We found that using a single point of exit into the air intake flow path we were not evenly saturating the air intake flow stream and that with the 360 degree discharge we were only surrounding the airflow stream entering the intake plenum and the discharge could not completely mix into the air flow stream completely saturating the entire plenum area.
We also found that with the 360 degree design there was an excess area of drag restriction with in the plate. With the nitrous flowing around 950 to 1050 PSI and the fuel flowing no more than 60 PSI we seen a delay in response time of delivery with the fuel discharge compared to the nitrous discharge. This would create a huge lean spike which is a proven fact with current 180 degree discharge plates that are currently on the market. The commonly used band aid for this poor design is to use a shorter fuel hose compared to the nitrous hose from the solenoids to the plate.
With the design we released we were able to create a product that was capable of flowing enough nitrous and fuel to supporting horse power levels up to 400 horse power.
Not only were we able to create a precise fitting product that was capable of flowing large amounts of nitrous and fuel with out the drag restrictions we were able to produce a product that atomized a precise discharge saturating the air intake flow path..
Now since earlier in this discussion we discussed false advertisement claims do you want to know how to determine if my information is BS or facts?
I will tell you how.
No mater what any manufacture tells you no one can repeat the actual atmosphere of inside the intake manifold. It is a fact that as the air flow enters the intake plenum the cylinders will digest the flow pulling it in as they choose. Like stated above with Nitrous the art is introducing an precise atomized mixture into the air stream in a manner to saturate the air stream with out causing a rise in cylinder temperatures from a lean condition or restricting airflow.
Well since there is no way to create the actual atmosphere in the intake plenum the most accurate and only way to know how a products design works and is atomizing into the air stream is to read the spark plugs. The spark plugs are the only point of information to tell you what is taking place in each combustion chamber.
If you have a product that is not delivering equal amounts of flow to each cylinder the plugs will tell you.
Last edited by Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet; 11-04-2009 at 11:57 AM.
11-04-2009, 03:07 AM
#5
With the LSX platform we are the only nitrous company that has time after time results with customers using our nitrous plates for spraying as much as 300 and more through the front of the intake manifold.
With the Hemi platform we are the only company that has had time after time results spraying 200 or more through the front of an intake manifold with great results.
We will be showing these same great results soon with the ford platforms as well.
Our results speak for them self. Ask another nitrous company to show you results spraying that much through the front of the intake manifold time and time again with the plugs showing a proper delivery! They can not do it! Only Nitrous Outlet can!
So I challenge you to question the things you here. Don’t just fall for the best sounding sales pitch. Ask for proof of claims.
See you at the Finish line.
Nitro Dave
With the Hemi platform we are the only company that has had time after time results spraying 200 or more through the front of an intake manifold with great results.
We will be showing these same great results soon with the ford platforms as well.
Our results speak for them self. Ask another nitrous company to show you results spraying that much through the front of the intake manifold time and time again with the plugs showing a proper delivery! They can not do it! Only Nitrous Outlet can!
So I challenge you to question the things you here. Don’t just fall for the best sounding sales pitch. Ask for proof of claims.
See you at the Finish line.
Nitro Dave
11-04-2009, 06:13 AM
#6
Our results speak for them self. Ask another nitrous company to show you results spraying that much through the front of the intake manifold time and time again with the plugs showing a proper delivery! They can not do it! Only Nitrous Outlet can!
Nitro Dave
Can we see pics of the plugs?
11-04-2009, 09:53 AM
#7
Wayne,
To be honest with you I have never saved spark plugs. I have tried but then I get annoyed with the clutter and throw them in the trash. I have also never tried to take pictures of the spark plugs to use for advertising reasons. The reson why is I do not have a camera that is capable of magnifying the point of focus enough to clearly show in great detail. Dont get me wrong our camera can focus in pretty good but I do not have the correct lense for that job.
I have been talking to a buddy of mine that is in photagraphy to see if he could take some pictures for me for a spark plug reading how to I am working on in my very little amount of free time.
Dave
To be honest with you I have never saved spark plugs. I have tried but then I get annoyed with the clutter and throw them in the trash. I have also never tried to take pictures of the spark plugs to use for advertising reasons. The reson why is I do not have a camera that is capable of magnifying the point of focus enough to clearly show in great detail. Dont get me wrong our camera can focus in pretty good but I do not have the correct lense for that job.
I have been talking to a buddy of mine that is in photagraphy to see if he could take some pictures for me for a spark plug reading how to I am working on in my very little amount of free time.
Dave
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11-04-2009, 10:11 AM
#10
Dave
I understand, I just wanted to see how close they are.
I know with our car its hard to get them close and we have individual timing and fueling.
I will say with 1 stage its pretty close right away and easy to fix if its off a little.
Turn the 2nd kit on and all hell breaks loose. lol
Good read for people looking to buy a nitrous kit.
I understand, I just wanted to see how close they are.
I know with our car its hard to get them close and we have individual timing and fueling.
I will say with 1 stage its pretty close right away and easy to fix if its off a little.
Turn the 2nd kit on and all hell breaks loose. lol
Good read for people looking to buy a nitrous kit.
11-04-2009, 11:05 AM
#11
Good read .One of the reasons we don't push any 1 kit. There are parts we like from multiple companies and things we don't... I always laugh at the gains people post.... Without ever changing fuel jets it sure would be hard to pick up anything.
TNT was famous for this... call it a 150 shot put a 01 bigger jet in and watch people claim they made 170 on the 150 shot and how its way better. LOL
TNT was famous for this... call it a 150 shot put a 01 bigger jet in and watch people claim they made 170 on the 150 shot and how its way better. LOL
), but good write up. 
11-04-2009, 01:12 PM
#14
Dave
I understand, I just wanted to see how close they are.
I know with our car its hard to get them close and we have individual timing and fueling.
I will say with 1 stage its pretty close right away and easy to fix if its off a little.
Turn the 2nd kit on and all hell breaks loose. lol
Good read for people looking to buy a nitrous kit.
I understand, I just wanted to see how close they are.
I know with our car its hard to get them close and we have individual timing and fueling.
I will say with 1 stage its pretty close right away and easy to fix if its off a little.
Turn the 2nd kit on and all hell breaks loose. lol
Good read for people looking to buy a nitrous kit.
You are correct in the fact that the odds of the plugs reading the exact same is nearly impossible. Each combustion chamber can vary in results even with a directport.
(I know you already know this but I will say this for the people reading along)
With a set up like yours using a directport with after market computer you can alter ignition timing as well as fuel delivery to each cylinder.
Using a standard set up with even the best designed plate the odds of the plugs reading exactly the same across the board are pretty much impossible. In most cases they are not even exactly the same N/A. They should be close to the same though. Reading the plugs is the best tunning tool to determain the point into which you have hit an area to where the over all delivery to each cylinder is starting to show issues.
What I mean by this is lets say for the most part all the plugs are reading fairly close to another at the 150 -200 hp level. As you start steping up on the amount of nitrous to the 250-300 hp level you may have a cylinder start showing signs of poor distribution. This can be spoted by taking your time as you move up in the horse power levels and reading the plugs. If you have a plug showing signs of running hotter than the others you know you have hit the area to which the discharge is no longer evenly hiting each cylinder and you shoudl back down on the horse power or go directport.
My point is that a properly designed product will shine on the higher Horsepower levels over one that is not as well designed. On a low hp setting where you are not injecting a hole lot of nitrous and fuel into the intake plenum the demand for design efficiancy is not as important as it is when injecting a large amount of nitrous and fuel into the plenum.
11-04-2009, 01:13 PM
#15
Good read .One of the reasons we don't push any 1 kit. There are parts we like from multiple companies and things we don't... I always laugh at the gains people post.... Without ever changing fuel jets it sure would be hard to pick up anything.
TNT was famous for this... call it a 150 shot put a 01 bigger jet in and watch people claim they made 170 on the 150 shot and how its way better. LOL
TNT was famous for this... call it a 150 shot put a 01 bigger jet in and watch people claim they made 170 on the 150 shot and how its way better. LOL
Dave
11-04-2009, 03:43 PM
#20
Dave, I know that you did not save any plugs, but could you please contact one of your customers that is using your plate and spraying 300 worth of nitrous to take the plugs from a full 1/4 mile pass and take very good pictures of them, all with the ground cut off so we can see the fuel ring and whatnot.
I'm not saying good or bad, I just want to see what they look like. Details on the car, motor, what it runs, etc. would also be helpful.
Thank you.
Also, your DP setups are some of the nicest looking plumbing jobs I have seen to date, and I am sure that in capable hands (like Conrad) they're capable of delivering the power needed to really put up a #.
I'm not saying good or bad, I just want to see what they look like. Details on the car, motor, what it runs, etc. would also be helpful.
Thank you.
Also, your DP setups are some of the nicest looking plumbing jobs I have seen to date, and I am sure that in capable hands (like Conrad) they're capable of delivering the power needed to really put up a #.
