Bad synchros or worn fork pads?
11-24-2009, 07:51 PM
#1
Bad synchros or worn fork pads? My car has 74k and grinds gears only if it is still cold and its shifted quickly. Once warm, I can bang gears all I want with no problems. If I shift it slowly in the mornings it is fine and I dont notice a thing. Is this just caused from worn fork pads or do my synchros need to be replaced? It does it in 2nd 3rd and 4th.
It will also grind if I take it out of 5th or 6th gear and put it back in that gear w/o releasing the clutch while its in neutral. This is the only time 5th or 6th grind. Again, is this a synchro issue or just from bad fork pads?
I know you usually can't tell without looking at it but thought I would try anyways, the search didn't help much. I just need to know how much the rebuild will cost before I tear it apart. Thanks for any helpful info.
It will also grind if I take it out of 5th or 6th gear and put it back in that gear w/o releasing the clutch while its in neutral. This is the only time 5th or 6th grind. Again, is this a synchro issue or just from bad fork pads?
I know you usually can't tell without looking at it but thought I would try anyways, the search didn't help much. I just need to know how much the rebuild will cost before I tear it apart. Thanks for any helpful info.
11-24-2009, 09:20 PM
#3
I haven't bleed it but I do keep fresh fluid in it. Usually change it out about every month, much more than that lately since I have been going to the track.
The clutch pedal still feels good and the engagement point hasn't moved around so I don't think its being caused by the clutch system. You know a lot more than I do tho so I'll give it a try over the thanksgiving break.
The clutch pedal still feels good and the engagement point hasn't moved around so I don't think its being caused by the clutch system. You know a lot more than I do tho so I'll give it a try over the thanksgiving break.
Last edited by stoverz28; 11-24-2009 at 09:28 PM.
12-08-2009, 11:30 AM
#4
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how do you change the clutch fluid out without bleeding it?
being that you have problems in more than just 1 or 2 gears, it sounds to me like a clutch issue. i may be wrong though. from my experience synchro problems tend to show up in just 1 or 2 gears. like mine sometimes grinds going into 3rd and occassionally pops out of 3rd, but all other gears are fine. i think my 3rd gear synchro is on its way out. but when all gears are affected, i'd lean more towards the clutch.
being that you have problems in more than just 1 or 2 gears, it sounds to me like a clutch issue. i may be wrong though. from my experience synchro problems tend to show up in just 1 or 2 gears. like mine sometimes grinds going into 3rd and occassionally pops out of 3rd, but all other gears are fine. i think my 3rd gear synchro is on its way out. but when all gears are affected, i'd lean more towards the clutch.
Last edited by dutinsss; 12-08-2009 at 11:37 AM.
12-09-2009, 08:33 PM
#6
This is educated speculation on my part but IMO, this is what happens to these transmissions:
If the car gets driven hard much, the STOCK PP doesnt disengage properly and there's still torque applied to the imput shaft from the not fully disengaged clutch when hard shifting.
After a while, this causes rounding of the synchro teeth on the gear as well as the cone on the blocker ring
eventually, the manifestation is light grinding when shifting gears even during light driving, even though the clutch is fully disengaging at low RPM's.
The solution is to replace the clutch with one that isnt self adjusting AND carefully measuring the PP finger/lever install height, and using the appropriate shim to achieve roughly 0.120 air gap between the PP levers and the face of the T.O. bearing with the slave FULLY depressed. You must crack the bleeder when measuring for accuracy BTW to be sure the slave is at true bottom and not just against the fluid already in it. The gap will allow for wear in the disk since the fingers protrude further as wear occurs. Of course, you have to break down the trans as well to inspect and replace whatever parts are worn. $1500 roughly should do if you rebuild yourself, clutch included. Less if your gears are good, more if your a shrub like me with the karma guarantee that every tooth on every gear is **** salad along with bent forks. Thats why I faceplated mine.
If the car gets driven hard much, the STOCK PP doesnt disengage properly and there's still torque applied to the imput shaft from the not fully disengaged clutch when hard shifting.
After a while, this causes rounding of the synchro teeth on the gear as well as the cone on the blocker ring
eventually, the manifestation is light grinding when shifting gears even during light driving, even though the clutch is fully disengaging at low RPM's.
The solution is to replace the clutch with one that isnt self adjusting AND carefully measuring the PP finger/lever install height, and using the appropriate shim to achieve roughly 0.120 air gap between the PP levers and the face of the T.O. bearing with the slave FULLY depressed. You must crack the bleeder when measuring for accuracy BTW to be sure the slave is at true bottom and not just against the fluid already in it. The gap will allow for wear in the disk since the fingers protrude further as wear occurs. Of course, you have to break down the trans as well to inspect and replace whatever parts are worn. $1500 roughly should do if you rebuild yourself, clutch included. Less if your gears are good, more if your a shrub like me with the karma guarantee that every tooth on every gear is **** salad along with bent forks. Thats why I faceplated mine.
12-09-2009, 10:14 PM
#7
My trans used to do the exact same thing. Gear clash in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th when cold. The colder it got, the worse the grinding would be.
Last year I pulled the trans apart for a rebuild. There was some slight synchro wear, but not enough to warrant replacement (they are expensive). During the rebuild I replaced blockers, keys, fork pads, and all snap rings. The new blockers (carbon fiber instead of the stock paper lined ones) made the difference, trans shifts pretty much like new now.
Last year I pulled the trans apart for a rebuild. There was some slight synchro wear, but not enough to warrant replacement (they are expensive). During the rebuild I replaced blockers, keys, fork pads, and all snap rings. The new blockers (carbon fiber instead of the stock paper lined ones) made the difference, trans shifts pretty much like new now.
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12-09-2009, 11:31 PM
#8
My trans used to do the exact same thing. Gear clash in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th when cold. The colder it got, the worse the grinding would be.
Last year I pulled the trans apart for a rebuild. There was some slight synchro wear, but not enough to warrant replacement (they are expensive). During the rebuild I replaced blockers, keys, fork pads, and all snap rings. The new blockers (carbon fiber instead of the stock paper lined ones) made the difference, trans shifts pretty much like new now.
Last year I pulled the trans apart for a rebuild. There was some slight synchro wear, but not enough to warrant replacement (they are expensive). During the rebuild I replaced blockers, keys, fork pads, and all snap rings. The new blockers (carbon fiber instead of the stock paper lined ones) made the difference, trans shifts pretty much like new now.
12-12-2009, 10:01 PM
#10
I'm having similar problems. If I shift slowly I feel resistance going into 2, 3, and 5 at times and thats only at low rpm's. If I get on it feels just fine and goes into gear smooth. Also sometimes when I'm at a stop and try to go into first it feels like it only goes in halfway and the same on reverse.
