Turbo or blower for "street car"?
11-28-2009, 01:51 AM
#1
Turbo or blower for "street car"? Ok I've been doing a good bit of research, but haven't found a clear answer to this yet. I've got a six speed car that see's a good bit of action not on the track, if you know what I'm sayin lol. And most runs are from a dig. So I need to be able to get the most power possible to the ground. Traction really isn't a huge issue with the setup I have now, 404ci with 100shot. Realistically I'm looking for 700-750hp. But what I want to know is which will be easier to get to the ground? Would a turbo be to violent when it starts spoooling up? From what I've heard you can't really work the throttle with the turbo, to control tire spin. But looks like you could with a procharger? I know this a pretty vague question but maybe someone who has experience with both can chime in for me...thanks
11-28-2009, 02:09 AM
#2
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imo, i have drove pd blowers and just this last week a 98 240 sx w/sr20det swap at 15 psi. they drive totally differently. blowers are fun, love the whine. but the 240 was so cool, it just kept going, and going, i had to shut down at 120 (i had my aps kit up for sale to free up some cash, but after the test drive i decided to keep them and just take a while longet to build it). so what do you want? instant torque down low (pd blower), or some thing more progressive through the entire rpm bound (centi, or turbos)? also sc'd is more reliable for a dd, turbos are a bit more tepramental. read up on "the true cost of fi" on this forum. drive both.
11-28-2009, 02:11 AM
#3
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my car is turbo and is 99% street driven (weekend warrior) and i love the turbo! Drives 100% stock till you get into it... and yes you can launch perfectly fine sith a turbo.
There is nothing like when that turbo kicks in though. You can hit full boost and have it all the way through the rpms. Deffinetally the route i would go.
There is nothing like when that turbo kicks in though. You can hit full boost and have it all the way through the rpms. Deffinetally the route i would go.
11-28-2009, 02:32 AM
#5
I have ridden in both...both were extremely fast. I mean hell no matter if it's turbo or blower if they both make 700hp they're going to run the same. So imnot neccessarialy asking "which one makes more power". Obviously I cold make more power with a turbo, but for my goals I can do it with a procharger to. Really just looking for which is easier to drive I guess?
Also I've already got a pretty good exhaust setup for a procharger. And it's basically a bolt on kit, can be done in a weekend.
Also I've already got a pretty good exhaust setup for a procharger. And it's basically a bolt on kit, can be done in a weekend.
11-28-2009, 02:40 AM
#6
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IMO, When set up for a DD the prochargers tend to launch harder, ie much harder to stick off the line, while the turbos tend to wait to come in and ease the hit of the launch.
Look around, the sc guys can run mid to low 10's and pull tire while somebody just posted a 9.39 ET spinning pretty good with an ST80 on all 4's the whole time.
all depends on your setup, transbrakes, 2 steps, blower/turbo selection, yada yada yada. after all the reasearch i done to me it came down to the old "eenie meenie miney mo"
Your having an M6 would suggest you get the Procharger though, you dont have to wait for a re-spool after every gear change.
whats the budget on your FI build?
Look around, the sc guys can run mid to low 10's and pull tire while somebody just posted a 9.39 ET spinning pretty good with an ST80 on all 4's the whole time.
all depends on your setup, transbrakes, 2 steps, blower/turbo selection, yada yada yada. after all the reasearch i done to me it came down to the old "eenie meenie miney mo"
Your having an M6 would suggest you get the Procharger though, you dont have to wait for a re-spool after every gear change.
whats the budget on your FI build?
11-28-2009, 02:47 AM
#7
Yeah I've thought about the respool after gear changes, but I don't think it would be bad at all with a 404 and 10.8-1CR lol.
Ehhh is there ever really a "budget" for our cars lol. I would like to keep it around $5-6k for the initial "kit" I buy. I know it can be pieced together for cheaper, that's just what I wouldn't feel to bad for spending I guess.
Ehhh is there ever really a "budget" for our cars lol. I would like to keep it around $5-6k for the initial "kit" I buy. I know it can be pieced together for cheaper, that's just what I wouldn't feel to bad for spending I guess.
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11-28-2009, 02:55 AM
#8
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might check out getting Ninetres's setup, id like to but its outta my budget
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lsx-parts...toms-zr1s.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lsx-parts...toms-zr1s.html
11-28-2009, 03:12 AM
#9
If I do go turbo I'm going to get Josh at Kentucky turbo to build me up somthing sweet...but it looks like I could piece together a d1 kit for fairly cheap and get my 700hp. Just can't go and turn a **** for that extra 200 more HP like I cold on a turbo...would have to swap head units damnit. Man, decisions, decisions...
11-28-2009, 12:26 PM
#13
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for a 6 speed i'd go blower for sure, I think power management is easier in a turbo w/ an AMS 500/1000
but with that many cubes I hope your looking at the F1 lineup of blowers?
I'd give Bob @ EPP a call.
Chad
but with that many cubes I hope your looking at the F1 lineup of blowers?
I'd give Bob @ EPP a call.
Chad
11-28-2009, 01:03 PM
#14
Driven both ,riden in both..sts lt1 and sts ls1, ati lt1 and ati ls1. My own twin turbo 408 and had lots and lots of dsm turbo cars as well. Had big block chevy roots blown car around 1990.
Basic answer is all fun ,all work. ATI being rpm based has some advantages to way the power comes on but I can set up my eboost 2 to ramp in boost by rpm too although it would be harder to have it come in with as low a boost as the ati unless went to really low gate spring and then might be limited in how much boost would get.
But its same type of idea. You can also set turbos to come in with time or in some cases gear. And there are some good ramping style controllers out there. My eboost can do it, ams 500,etc.
Turbo can come in pretty low in the rpm band if sized right.I have not ran logs but pretty sure I am feeling boost around 2500 and full in by 3000 or so on current twin setup.
Traction..yeah definitely traction issues currently without using any ramping right now.
It laughs at nitto drag radials you could start hooking middle of third on warmer days when car was a six speed ,first and second were pretty much useless and thats with only 3.54 gears. To really hook street or track required serious drag type tires.
Ati ls1 I drove did seem easier to get and keep traction on normal type tires. Fact to me it felt week compared to the turbo going up thru the gears but thats the way you build boost on the centrifugals. They do great at the track where you can launch high in the rpm band like with a six speed .They are fine on street two when you are in higher gear and can just gear down to get more boost quick.
Course you can do similar things with turbos gearing down to get more boost but turbos defintely have great areas under the curve looking like mountains on the dyno graphs.
Non centrifugals can also have massive area under the curve. But these types can really be hard on traction and some aren't that great top end. Talking roots types. Twin screws are better top end.
All fun power adders all have pros and cons. Ati are bit simpler install than turbos but once its installed its installed if you know what I mean. And don't understand about turbos needing bunch more maintenance or being unreliable. Turbos have been used on millions of stock cars and trucks,semis..they are generally very reliable..aps knock off turbos excluded in this discussion or cheap ebay chinese crap.
And ati guys have belt slippage problems..and ati are not cheap anymore. sts has upgraded their kit and they are not cheap but seem to work good.
And not that many big companies making front mount f body kits especially if you are talking twin kits. Aps supposedly stopped f body kits and no one trusts their turbos anymore.Used aps kit would still be a good buy. And then you have the custom little shops or can fab up your own setups from ebay parts, etc. Turbos are not rocket science. You just need to buy quality turbo, gate and blow off, run some decent piping and figure out manifold setup, feed in your water /oil feed /drain.Some turbos don't even use water cooling .Not a huge deal.
So with all that said I love my turbo 99 but might put an ati on my 96z.
Basic answer is all fun ,all work. ATI being rpm based has some advantages to way the power comes on but I can set up my eboost 2 to ramp in boost by rpm too although it would be harder to have it come in with as low a boost as the ati unless went to really low gate spring and then might be limited in how much boost would get.
But its same type of idea. You can also set turbos to come in with time or in some cases gear. And there are some good ramping style controllers out there. My eboost can do it, ams 500,etc.
Turbo can come in pretty low in the rpm band if sized right.I have not ran logs but pretty sure I am feeling boost around 2500 and full in by 3000 or so on current twin setup.
Traction..yeah definitely traction issues currently without using any ramping right now.
It laughs at nitto drag radials you could start hooking middle of third on warmer days when car was a six speed ,first and second were pretty much useless and thats with only 3.54 gears. To really hook street or track required serious drag type tires.
Ati ls1 I drove did seem easier to get and keep traction on normal type tires. Fact to me it felt week compared to the turbo going up thru the gears but thats the way you build boost on the centrifugals. They do great at the track where you can launch high in the rpm band like with a six speed .They are fine on street two when you are in higher gear and can just gear down to get more boost quick.
Course you can do similar things with turbos gearing down to get more boost but turbos defintely have great areas under the curve looking like mountains on the dyno graphs.
Non centrifugals can also have massive area under the curve. But these types can really be hard on traction and some aren't that great top end. Talking roots types. Twin screws are better top end.
All fun power adders all have pros and cons. Ati are bit simpler install than turbos but once its installed its installed if you know what I mean. And don't understand about turbos needing bunch more maintenance or being unreliable. Turbos have been used on millions of stock cars and trucks,semis..they are generally very reliable..aps knock off turbos excluded in this discussion or cheap ebay chinese crap.
And ati guys have belt slippage problems..and ati are not cheap anymore. sts has upgraded their kit and they are not cheap but seem to work good.
And not that many big companies making front mount f body kits especially if you are talking twin kits. Aps supposedly stopped f body kits and no one trusts their turbos anymore.Used aps kit would still be a good buy. And then you have the custom little shops or can fab up your own setups from ebay parts, etc. Turbos are not rocket science. You just need to buy quality turbo, gate and blow off, run some decent piping and figure out manifold setup, feed in your water /oil feed /drain.Some turbos don't even use water cooling .Not a huge deal.
So with all that said I love my turbo 99 but might put an ati on my 96z.
Last edited by MY99TAWS6; 11-29-2009 at 10:48 AM.
11-28-2009, 02:43 PM
#15
My car is a procharged car. If you set it up right you can have some serious torque. My car made 754rwhp and 707 rwtq. I couldnt believe the torque was so high (have just a 370) after seeing alot of cars make 600-650 torque with the D1. It is tons of fun at the track with the 6 speed. I'd say your in good shape with either one if your wanting 700hp. I dont have traction worth a damn through 3rd. In 4th it slides all over the place.
11-28-2009, 06:21 PM
#17
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id go with the blower, you already have the exhaust setup for it.
turbos are more work for sure so unless your going for a max effort build id stick with a procharger.
both are going to be fun, and both are going to have problems. id research some more on what the problems/ perks are and decide what you can / cant live with and then decide.
im probably going to spray because im cheap ***, but id love to do a big t-6 turbo setup.
turbos are more work for sure so unless your going for a max effort build id stick with a procharger.
both are going to be fun, and both are going to have problems. id research some more on what the problems/ perks are and decide what you can / cant live with and then decide.
im probably going to spray because im cheap ***, but id love to do a big t-6 turbo setup.
11-28-2009, 06:22 PM
#18
I dont think I should have big traction issues in 3rd and 4th, probably not even 2nd. Hell the car dead hooks everytime on a 100 or 150 shot in second gear(6-650hp), and just glazes the tires over in first, not an uncontrable spin. I think I could make the procharger hook easier in first and second, more so than a turbo...I know what you guys are talking about a turbo "feeling" faster because it just keeps upping boost as the rpms build. But that doesnt mean a F1A wont be as fast, you just feel the hit as soon as you kick it, I guess?
11-28-2009, 06:24 PM
#19
id go with the blower, you already have the exhaust setup for it.
turbos are more work for sure so unless your going for a max effort build id stick with a procharger.
both are going to be fun, and both are going to have problems. id research some more on what the problems/ perks are and decide what you can / cant live with and then decide.
im probably going to spray because im cheap ***, but id love to do a big t-6 turbo setup.
turbos are more work for sure so unless your going for a max effort build id stick with a procharger.
both are going to be fun, and both are going to have problems. id research some more on what the problems/ perks are and decide what you can / cant live with and then decide.
im probably going to spray because im cheap ***, but id love to do a big t-6 turbo setup.
And the only reason I mentioned going with a D1 is because they are a lot easier to come by used, than an F1. And not to mention cheaper. And I belive there has been a few guys into the 9's with D1's on 400+CI motors making around 800HP.