Generation III Internal Engine - patriot stg II 5.3's/ 224-581-112 dyno numbers

389.9 hp, 375.3 ftbs SAE

untuned, but from the looks of things it wont benefit much, a/f was about 13.1 across the board. ill get the graph and atap logs up later.

mods:
PP Stg 2 5.3's milled .015"
comp XER 224/581/112 no advance
stock macs, stock 2.5" mac ypipe, 3" dynomouth exhuast
asp's
ls6 intake
home ported tb and maf
suncoast intake setup
bolts on etc . . . .
stock aluminum driveshaft
stock 3.42's

about run:
made with full belts
through my daily driver rims (15x8" prostars with 275 50/15 BFG Drags at 20lbs)


riddle me this though, the car made 367 hp and 362 ftlbs before the heads and asp's and trapped 112-112.5 mph consistantly. so i gained 23 hp and 16 ftlbs from heads and asp's, but i consistantly trapped 117.5-117.8 after the heads even without the asp's installed. same DA's, same weight (within 50lbs) no changes at all. this kinda confuses me, but im happy there was more of a track gain than a dyno gain

i plan on dynoing somewhere else to confirm these numbers

comments???

Pretty good #'s. I would bet you will pick up 10-15hp with a tune even though your A/F looks good now. That would put you over 400HP. Good TQ #'s.

Can you post the graph? Could it be that you picked up big time in the midrange and therefore the peak numbers don't look so great? You picked up 5mph, so they must be working.

I have a set of thoes head waiting to go on, hopefully I can find the time next weekend.

Something is NOT right. You should be making an EASY 420 rwhp through a stock 10 bolt and 3:42's.

Done a leakdown test? Compression check? Fuel filter? A-tap it? What did the injectors look like? Lots of factors here, but you're definately down on power for some reason. Not trying to be negative, but I will not sugar coat it saying you should be making a lot more. JMO

That combo should be good for at least 119-120 in the 1/4. Nice TQ curve though...

josh

http://www.ls1camaro.net/freehosting/headcam1dyno.JPG

Something is NOT right. You should be making an EASY 420 rwhp through a stock 10 bolt and 3:42's.

Done a leakdown test? Compression check? Fuel filter? A-tap it? What did the injectors look like? Lots of factors here, but you're definately down on power for some reason. Not trying to be negative, but I will not sugar coat it saying you should be making a lot more. JMO

That combo should be good for at least 119-120 in the 1/4. Nice TQ curve though...

josh


its not running out of fuel, did a compression check about 2 weeks ago for shits and every cylinder was right around 205 (+- 10 psi)

i agree the hp numbers arent there, but the it trapped 117.8 before the pullies in a DA of +500 ft and raceweight of 3400 lbs. pullies probably added 1 mph. 119 mph aint bad in a car with stock gears. thats why i dont understand gaining 5-6, maybe 7 mph (post pullies) at the track, and 20 something hp. . .

ill have the atap logs tonight, gotta get them from a friend

Compression check looks good. 205 is about perfect.

What did your heads flow?

Numbers seem low to me, get that thing tuned and see what you can pick up, i'm sure there is some still left in it. With 5.3 heads and that cam it seems like the common numbers are 410-420.

Yeah those number do seem pretty low. I think those Macs might be holding you back 5-10rwhp from LT's, plus tuning I think you could get about 5-10rwhp. I havent really seen Patriot's heads making high numbers? Could be that those heads dont flow as good as some other sponsors S2 5.3 heads?

If you are trapping 117.8 at a raceweight of 3400lbs
(including you) at +500 DA then your numbers are
about right on, maybe a bit high.

My car dynos 407 through a 12 bolt and I trap 118 at
a raceweight of 3670lbs at +2000 DA.

I just got my Patriot S2 5.3's yesterday. I hope they make the power thier supposed to be. I'm confused and maybe someone could help me here. The box says Stage 2 LS6's, but the plastic on the heads say stage 3 LS6 5.3s?? :confused:Also the casting # from the factory is gone. I have these #'s on the heads 2227RO310865 and 2227169677. I'm lost here??? :confused: I know I ordered stage 2 5.3's from Texas Speed.

I thought the PP heads are really 6.0L heads with different CC's welded in them?

flow numbers

http://www.ls1camaro.net/freehosting/flowchart.JPG

i just cant see why i would gain 6 mph going from a DA of -350 cam only to +500 with heads, yet only gain 23 hp even with a pulley added on there???

i agree the numbers are low, i would really like to figure out why???

heres the atap log

http://www.ls1camaro.net/freehosting/ataprun2pic.jpg

timing is a little low but nothing too bad

why the difference in o2's????

your timing should be 28-30 degree's for max power

i know, hence i said it is a little low, but that wont add much, maybe 5 hp assuming it doesnt cause knock

There is still power left on the table with headers and timing.

Numbers don't seem bad.

how much would a shitty exhuast contribute (mac ypipe sucks and my exhuast has ALOT of bends in it)

im getting a new exhuast in a few weeks, and was just curious


any other ideas or comments?

I've seen a 5-7 rwhp gain going from the macs to a quality Longtube header. Hows the mac y-pipe, i've heard that the quality is not the greatest on it. Those flow numbers on the heads look on par with the other 5.3's i've seen, i say try a different exhaust setup and get it tuned and then see what she can put down.

i REALLY cant afford new headers so the macs are staying

the mac ypipe has ballflange collectors, 2.5" pipes, and a 2.5" collector from 2.5" pipes. it doesnt flow too well, the rear secion of the exhuast also has alot of bends in it which may be hurting flow as well.

i dont know if this is contributing to the lower numbers, but its a chance.

the car has always dynoed low, but based on the gains ive had at the track i was expecting much more

it is low timing for a 99.

Where did you come up with your timing curve? The dip at peak torque is extreme..... I suggest limits of 24 and 29 with the highter cr. I had excellent results with a hybrid '02 Z06 timing tables.
Good luck and nice MPH!

i REALLY cant afford new headers so the macs are staying

the mac ypipe has ballflange collectors, 2.5" pipes, and a 2.5" collector from 2.5" pipes. it doesnt flow too well, the rear secion of the exhuast also has alot of bends in it which may be hurting flow as well.

i dont know if this is contributing to the lower numbers, but its a chance.

the car has always dynoed low, but based on the gains ive had at the track i was expecting much more

you have any local buddies with LT's and Y that would let you test them out on your car to see if infact your setup is hurting you?

nope, i pretty much the only modded ls1 around. few guys have headers but none of my close friends

as for the timing curves, this is what they were at when the car was tuned cam only. i actually remember them being higher last time i atapped it, but you see what they were during the run . . .

Do like I did.. Sell the macs and y pipe and buy the Pacesetters,
the difference in price is next to nothing. I got my headers for $350
shipped from Texas Speed. Pacesetters ypipe is only a touch over
$100, if I recall correctly.. More or less meaning if you get $300
for your macs & ypipe you are paying $150 for y pipe and pacesetters.
You will never make the power number your looking for (ie. comparing
it other cammed cars on here) if you don't get longtubes and a tune.

Good Luck,

I just got my Patriot S2 5.3's yesterday. I hope they make the power thier supposed to be. I'm confused and maybe someone could help me here. The box says Stage 2 LS6's, but the plastic on the heads say stage 3 LS6 5.3s?? :confused:Also the casting # from the factory is gone. I have these #'s on the heads 2227RO310865 and 2227169677. I'm lost here??? :confused: I know I ordered stage 2 5.3's from Texas Speed.


Flip the heads over and look at the deck surface.The casting will say 4.8 or 5.3.I remove the numbers because of GM's lawyers.

Tally , I know you have power left in the combo.The heads flow real good.I would look into the tuning and the exhaust.You also may want to look into a cutout.

The Mac headers are problably fine IMO but the MAC y pipe I have heard several times is not so good. One of my buddies down here in Tampa put down 390 hp with a t1 cam only and mac headers. He did have an aftermarket y though. I say get it tuned and work on getting the exhaust up to par.

No offense intended but the numbers are low. A leak down test might be a good idea. I think the car is down ~25 to 30rwhp from what was expected. The tuning and timing might help a some. Checking all the basic stuff like fuel filter, air filter etc could help.

A ported TB will help a little if you don't have one....~10rwhp on a heads and cam car.

Is the clutch holding tight? If it's slipping a tad in the high rpms that would really effect the numbers. Aftermarket clutch or stock factory one?

FWIW

Friend of mine the orginal w/TEA S2, same cam, MAC's, ASP, thru a 9 bolt w/3.90's, stock tune made 417rwhp. I don't think the issue is all with the MAC's

Was the cam degree'd in?

The Macs are not your problem, and you will not see any peak rwhp going from Macs to longtubes. Longtubes pick up more midrange, Macs still make the same peak rwhp...

Even with a 3 inch y-pipe, and retune I don't think you'll make over 405 rwhp.....Still something not right IMO..Was the cam degreed in? Any advance? Retarded? What chain is on the car? Slack in the stock timing chain isn't good...

Josh

At least you are loosing some with that tire pressure

hmmm you only made 367 with cam, exhaust, boltons...

i wouldn't expect anymore than the gain you got imho...

the people making big heads/cam numbers also are making better power cam only/stock heads...

i would wonder why only 367 with a decent size cam...

Timming should be higher. looks like you have more of a nitrous tune except for the AFR.
I get 402rhp NA with A4, a 220/.581/115lsa cam, PP LS1 stage II, 3:73's 10 bolt,Pacesetters.
My Atap looks similar to yours with 11.2 AFR for nitrous.

how much would a shitty exhuast contribute (mac ypipe sucks and my exhuast has ALOT of bends in it)

im getting a new exhuast in a few weeks, and was just curious


any other ideas or comments?

Macs are good. Cut the ball flanges off and have a custom 3" y-pipe made with a Flowmaster collector. You won't pick up much up top going with long tubes over Macs. My car with the same cam as you, exhaust as above, and TEA 5.3's ran 11.33 @ 122+ mph, 3500 lbs. Take it to the track and see what it will do. Those numbers are more important. Your timing is low, and you will pick up some with tuning.

Bruce

what Bruce said, also home port the t/b, and get a dump. Vic


ps....Macs work fine

i know, hence i said it is a little low, but that wont add much, maybe 5 hp assuming it doesnt cause knock

You have alot more than 5hp in timing there.Could be as high as 25hp and 30 tq down low..
When your timing is at 20,I set most of my cars 30..That is a huge power increase down low.

ill look into getting the car tuned shortly after new years and see what happens

also the new exhuast is coming shortly as well and well see what happens from that. i have a feeling itll produce a nice gain

if i can pull 410-420 outta the combo ill be extremely happy

as for the cam, it wasnt degreed in. it is installed with no advance (dot to dot), and there is no advance ground into the cam. the chain is a new stock chain with less than 5k on it now

i really appreciate all the help guys

Flip the heads over and look at the deck surface.The casting will say 4.8 or 5.3.I remove the numbers because of GM's lawyers.

Tally , I know you have power left in the combo.The heads flow real good.I would look into the tuning and the exhaust.You also may want to look into a cutout.
Thanks for the info Terry. They say 4.8 on them.

Stick a cutout on the car, if it doesn't pick up at least 10rwhp I'll buy you a steak next time I'm down that way!!

Are those numbers corrected? I made 414 with that cam and TEA heads with longtubes in a Vette. Mine was tuned though with underdrive pully.

You will do well with a cut out, I pick up 18 hp and 2-3 mph over my Edelbrock catback. I have Macs and I cant see changing headers, maybe try the ypipe but I dont think that is the problem either. I have done nothing to my macs except where the ypart is ,I had it expanded to meet the 3 inch section of the I pipe. i feel the timing is your culprit and the catback. up the timing and put a cutout and have fun with it.