Mail order tuning
12-20-2009, 12:32 AM
#1
Mail order tuning I was wondering if mail order tuning is worth doing, I've been looking at Frost. Im not sure if thier basic mail order tune would be good for me or not, but it seems fairly priced compared to dyno tuning. My mods Ill be running is long tubes, full exhaust (most likely true duals by spring), lid, 799 heads unported, LS6 cam, 100-150 wet shot. And also, is there anyway to get something like a multiple tune to where I can run an aggressive street tune, but also have a reduced timing tune for nitrous? I like to race off the bottle alot so I'd like to have a separate tune for when I spray it. Sorry if my questions are stupid, Im pretty new to tuning.
12-20-2009, 05:06 AM
#4
Tune Yes give Steve/Frost a yell
Steve@tunedbyfrost.com
What a great tuner, I have seen many mail order tunes done by him and then when the customer shows up to maybe get a dyno pull and the wideband is hooked up and he's logging the air fuel is SPOT on no surging or bucking you wont go wrong.
Steve@tunedbyfrost.com
What a great tuner, I have seen many mail order tunes done by him and then when the customer shows up to maybe get a dyno pull and the wideband is hooked up and he's logging the air fuel is SPOT on no surging or bucking you wont go wrong.
12-20-2009, 07:52 AM
#5
I don't care how great the tuner is, tuning is about taking measurements, attributing changes properly, and making changes where needed. Mail order tunes eliminate the whole 'taking measurements' portion. Without these measurements, the tuner simply has no data to make changes, and thus they will approximate what various values should be. Our cars vary enough as it is even in stock form, so if you add aftermarkets part into the mix, the airflow becomes completely unpredictable.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
12-20-2009, 09:15 AM
#6
I don't care how great the tuner is, tuning is about taking measurements, attributing changes properly, and making changes where needed. Mail order tunes eliminate the whole 'taking measurements' portion. Without these measurements, the tuner simply has no data to make changes, and thus they will approximate what various values should be. Our cars vary enough as it is even in stock form, so if you add aftermarkets part into the mix, the airflow becomes completely unpredictable.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
Thunder Racing
East Coast Supercharging
Texas Speed
FasterProms Tuning
And their are many more company but these are some of the bigger ones, So do you think theses companies ripped off all their customers by providing this service ? Im by no means am I engineer like alot of the guys here, but many years of racing, but I have seen some great work by guys doing mail orders. And yes you have to read between the lines certain cars cannt be tuned via mail order. Wouldnt mind seeing more feedback on this topic.
12-20-2009, 09:23 AM
#7
I don't care how great the tuner is, tuning is about taking measurements, attributing changes properly, and making changes where needed. Mail order tunes eliminate the whole 'taking measurements' portion. Without these measurements, the tuner simply has no data to make changes, and thus they will approximate what various values should be. Our cars vary enough as it is even in stock form, so if you add aftermarkets part into the mix, the airflow becomes completely unpredictable.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
I've seen plenty of bad dyno tunes and I've never a seen a mail order tune, that wouldn't idle, and that I can't say about a duno tune that was done by one of this board's sponsors, and on top of it, he locked it thinking nobody would see his crappy tune, he did the dyno tune twice, and charged both times, and still couldn't get it right. By the way it was no radical motor either; Cam, long tubes, intake, and a lid. Having somebody that can take your measurements is only as good as his tuning skill and experiance. By the way a guy like Frost with all the tunes he has done, would have enough experiance to give you a great mail order tune, and to the best of my knowledge he doesn't lock his tune.
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12-20-2009, 09:34 AM
#8
After you've built up a "library" of tunes, and have figured out what cams want what, etc. it's not too hard to put together something that will work half way decent via mail order.
Case in point, I tuned a SC GTO recently, that was VERY similar to a setup I had tuned before. 2 bar SD. Dumped in the older tune for a starting point, ON THE SECOND DYNO PULL, the A/F was damn near dead nuts. I made no more power after 8 pulls, than it did on the second pull.
Case in point, I tuned a SC GTO recently, that was VERY similar to a setup I had tuned before. 2 bar SD. Dumped in the older tune for a starting point, ON THE SECOND DYNO PULL, the A/F was damn near dead nuts. I made no more power after 8 pulls, than it did on the second pull.
12-20-2009, 03:37 PM
#10
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I don't think any mail order tuner will claim that their tune is better than when they do it in car or on dyno. Now if you want to compare a mail order tune from a reputable guy and a dyno tune from a less than reputable guy than I bet there's a pretty big disparity.
I wouldn't want to rely simply on the mail order tune if you're doing a big cam change or heads or F/I, but for a guy like me that doesn't have tuning equipment, it's a really valuable service to get a mail order tune to get me to a dyno without hurting the car.
I had frost do my basic tune for EGR/AIR/TM, fuel trims, shift points, etc and he loves what he does. He did my basic little tune and called me to ask all sorts of details and my plans for the car, for about 25 minutes. When a guy loves what he does, it really shows. He also has terrific customer service and fast turn-around.
I wouldn't want to rely simply on the mail order tune if you're doing a big cam change or heads or F/I, but for a guy like me that doesn't have tuning equipment, it's a really valuable service to get a mail order tune to get me to a dyno without hurting the car.
I had frost do my basic tune for EGR/AIR/TM, fuel trims, shift points, etc and he loves what he does. He did my basic little tune and called me to ask all sorts of details and my plans for the car, for about 25 minutes. When a guy loves what he does, it really shows. He also has terrific customer service and fast turn-around.
12-20-2009, 05:06 PM
#11
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Any tune mail order or in person, only has the potential to be as good as the setup and the person tuning it. Basic bolt-on cars are potentially good candidates for mail order tuning. The more modifications that are done on the vehicle the more uncertainty presents it'self.
Case in point, the most common problem we see day in day out with customer's cars is leaking exhaust systems. I don't care if you have a giant "S" on your chest, you can't fix a broke car with any tune-no matter how much experiance you have.
To the OP in this thread, I appreciate that you have stated you are new to the tuning world. The important thing is this consult a reputable professional that can provide references and you will be very happy.
Case in point, the most common problem we see day in day out with customer's cars is leaking exhaust systems. I don't care if you have a giant "S" on your chest, you can't fix a broke car with any tune-no matter how much experiance you have.
To the OP in this thread, I appreciate that you have stated you are new to the tuning world. The important thing is this consult a reputable professional that can provide references and you will be very happy.
12-20-2009, 10:12 PM
#12
Thanks for all your reply's, I was thinking I'd be alright since my build is conservative. I have been researching Frost and like what I see, once I get my car toghether and make sure it actually runs, Ill be contacting him. Thanks again.
12-21-2009, 08:46 PM
#13
After you've built up a "library" of tunes, and have figured out what cams want what, etc. it's not too hard to put together something that will work half way decent via mail order.
Case in point, I tuned a SC GTO recently, that was VERY similar to a setup I had tuned before. 2 bar SD. Dumped in the older tune for a starting point, ON THE SECOND DYNO PULL, the A/F was damn near dead nuts. I made no more power after 8 pulls, than it did on the second pull.
Case in point, I tuned a SC GTO recently, that was VERY similar to a setup I had tuned before. 2 bar SD. Dumped in the older tune for a starting point, ON THE SECOND DYNO PULL, the A/F was damn near dead nuts. I made no more power after 8 pulls, than it did on the second pull.
if you go to a shop that does dyno tuning for a living, your going to get a nice mail order tune that will make your car run very well..
I would not get a mail order tune from someone that doesnt dyno tune for a living. Notice I say dyno tuning.
The mail order tune from a dyno tuning shop will get your car 90-95 % percent dialed in based on experience.
what you'll be missing is getting YOUR cars VE and MAF dialed in to the exact. With no mods to bolt ons, you wont notice much of a differance not having the VE and MAF dialed in to your car.
for the price of mail order tunes, you cant beat it from several large sponsor. dont be fooled by impressive webpages. ask around here first. $150.00 mail order tune from ECS is as good as it gets. ive seen mail order tunes on here for $300 and thats crazy.
if you have FI car, i personnally would not do mail order unless the tuner lets you mail them scans for better defined tunes.
call and talk to shops
Last edited by Phil'sC5vette; 12-21-2009 at 08:53 PM.
12-22-2009, 09:43 AM
#14
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I was wondering if mail order tuning is worth doing, I've been looking at Frost. Im not sure if thier basic mail order tune would be good for me or not, but it seems fairly priced compared to dyno tuning. My mods Ill be running is long tubes, full exhaust (most likely true duals by spring), lid, 799 heads unported, LS6 cam, 100-150 wet shot. And also, is there anyway to get something like a multiple tune to where I can run an aggressive street tune, but also have a reduced timing tune for nitrous? I like to race off the bottle alot so I'd like to have a separate tune for when I spray it. Sorry if my questions are stupid, Im pretty new to tuning.
You are waaay off on that one IMHO, the $149 we charge for a mail order tune (stock or bolt on car only) is very possible the absolute best bargain possible! Dollar per HP it blows away headers, or any cold air intake etc etc.
I do agree, and will not perform, a mail order tune for a larger build. We will send what we call a "start up tune" for just about any build, because from years of dynoing I have a very large tune library, and can generally always get them just about right on, but I do not consider it a finished tune until checked.
12-29-2009, 12:54 PM
#16
I don't care how great the tuner is, tuning is about taking measurements, attributing changes properly, and making changes where needed. Mail order tunes eliminate the whole 'taking measurements' portion. Without these measurements, the tuner simply has no data to make changes, and thus they will approximate what various values should be. Our cars vary enough as it is even in stock form, so if you add aftermarkets part into the mix, the airflow becomes completely unpredictable.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
12-29-2009, 06:26 PM
#18
I don't care how great the tuner is, tuning is about taking measurements, attributing changes properly, and making changes where needed. Mail order tunes eliminate the whole 'taking measurements' portion. Without these measurements, the tuner simply has no data to make changes, and thus they will approximate what various values should be. Our cars vary enough as it is even in stock form, so if you add aftermarkets part into the mix, the airflow becomes completely unpredictable.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
Short version: mail tuning is a bloody ripoff.
I have seen a bill for $6900 and the car ran like dog crap from a tuning shop. Yes they install parts, but not the supercharger.
The next Dyno guy charged $1200 and cut the CAI on the car. The S/C and engine was junk after that.
Mail order tunes for some adjustment is Ok.
I can turn off VATS or change injector size as a mail order tune, but its not a performance tune. Just simply changing constants.
12-29-2009, 09:59 PM
#19
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Some people don't have much of a choice and have to go with mail order. I'm in Hawaii and am unable to find a single tuner that I would trust. So when I do the cam swap, I have no choice but to go mail order.
12-30-2009, 11:29 AM
#20
The point to all this is that if you have to get a mail order tune, get it dyno'd with a wideband to verify it. If there are any problems with the tune you can send the dyno chart (w/AFR) back to the tuner and he can make any necessary updates to it. Tune-Measure-Repeat
