Lingenfelter or HSW Microedge/Interface
12-27-2009, 03:46 PM
#1
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Lingenfelter or HSW Microedge/Interface So i just ordered Nitrous Outlets F-body specific plate kit as a total package, along with their remote bottle opener, ash tray switch panel and the bottle mount for the spare tire area.
My only dilema now is trying to decide which timing device to use along with my kit. I like that you have so many adjustable features with HSW's products, but i like the fact that Lingenfelters box simply plugs into youre harness with factory style connectors. But for the time being since i only plan on spraying a 125 or 150 shot, i dont know if im overcomplicating things. My main concern is safety and reliability. So i would like to know which one you think would work better for my particular set up.
Here are some questions:
-Is it ok to spray through the shifts?(auto)
-If i lift (due too tire spin) while the n2o is active, will this cause a backfire?
-If i lift and re-apply, will this cause a backfire?
-With HSW's controllers, can i change between n2o and n/a tunes on the fly?
-N2O Outlet, what heat range are youre plugs?
Im sure i had some more but i cant remeber now, lol. I think i might know the answers to some of these questions, i just wanna be sure im right.
Thanks
My only dilema now is trying to decide which timing device to use along with my kit. I like that you have so many adjustable features with HSW's products, but i like the fact that Lingenfelters box simply plugs into youre harness with factory style connectors. But for the time being since i only plan on spraying a 125 or 150 shot, i dont know if im overcomplicating things. My main concern is safety and reliability. So i would like to know which one you think would work better for my particular set up.
Here are some questions:
-Is it ok to spray through the shifts?(auto)
-If i lift (due too tire spin) while the n2o is active, will this cause a backfire?
-If i lift and re-apply, will this cause a backfire?
-With HSW's controllers, can i change between n2o and n/a tunes on the fly?
-N2O Outlet, what heat range are youre plugs?
Im sure i had some more but i cant remeber now, lol. I think i might know the answers to some of these questions, i just wanna be sure im right.
Thanks
12-27-2009, 05:57 PM
#2
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yes it is ok to spray threw shifts. i've never known anybody to not spray threw shifts in an auto so you should be good there.
well as for lifting b/c of tire spin...your wot switch will the circuit open when the pedal isn't on the floor meaning your nitrous ssytem will shut off until the pedal is reapplied to the floor which in turn closes the loop and your nitrous will reapply
well as for lifting b/c of tire spin...your wot switch will the circuit open when the pedal isn't on the floor meaning your nitrous ssytem will shut off until the pedal is reapplied to the floor which in turn closes the loop and your nitrous will reapply
12-27-2009, 10:37 PM
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Thanks for the input. It wouldnt be so hard to decide, i just like that i can pull timing with the interface, and then switch back and forth between n/a and nitrous tunes with the microedge.
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12-28-2009, 03:07 PM
#8
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Thanks again for the help minytrker, and thanks to everyone else as well.
Oh and by the way, since i work at a tire shop im just gonna order some dr's so i wont have to worry about traction.
Sorry Mr. 10 bolt...
12-28-2009, 09:01 PM
#10
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Cool man.
I was looking on Lingenfelters site and their box also has a launch controll feature among other things. And i love the fact that it plugs into youre existing harness using OEM looking connectors. That should make for a cleaner looking install.
I was looking on Lingenfelters site and their box also has a launch controll feature among other things. And i love the fact that it plugs into youre existing harness using OEM looking connectors. That should make for a cleaner looking install.
12-29-2009, 02:17 PM
#11
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yeah I like that it plugs in and has a launch control,but for me the main reason I decided on it was because after some research it was the most reliable..So that was the biggest factor for me..Others ones had issues where they did not pull timing or had to be sent back(not a unit mentioned in this thread)..
12-29-2009, 04:23 PM
#12
I run the lingenfelter with the rev limiter built in, I love it works flawless.. I can pull any amount of timing I want in a matter of seconds, and control when it is pulled it has a delay. Super product. If you go with it, be sure you get the noise suppression diodes on the solenoids to protect the unit.
12-29-2009, 11:01 PM
#13
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Nice to hear some more good things about the Lingenfelter box. RARON455, would you mind elaborating on those diodes?
"-Both of the activation inputs have active clamps and optical isolation to suppress electrical noise from external solenoids such as trans brake and line lock.
-Digital filter provided in software to further isolate electrical noise on the activation inputs."
I got this off Lingenfelters site. Is that what you where talking about?
Thanks
"-Both of the activation inputs have active clamps and optical isolation to suppress electrical noise from external solenoids such as trans brake and line lock.
-Digital filter provided in software to further isolate electrical noise on the activation inputs."
I got this off Lingenfelters site. Is that what you where talking about?
Thanks
12-30-2009, 05:56 AM
#14
They may have done something about it since I bought mine, But when I talked to the lingefelter rep, He told me that solenoids put off some kind of field that could cause a voltage spike and take out the box, I bought three diodes, one for each of my spray solenoids and one for my line-lock. They are only like 5.00 a piece, Easy to install, skin the wires on the solenoids and install the diode in between the positive and negative wires (I soldered mine in). It is supposed to stop the possibility, there were some posts where guys were having problems with their boxes, and after talkin to lingefelter they were informed about the diode,, From what I read they warrantied most of it, and informed about the diodes, but when you are looking at buying one, they dont mention it. No big deal. spend the extra 15.00 and protect your 300.00 dollar box. Dont go to radio shack, just get the ones from lingenfelter. The box really is a super nice piece, easy to install and works like a champ.
heres lingenfelters no. give them a call and ask them about the diode.
260.724.2552
heres lingenfelters no. give them a call and ask them about the diode.
260.724.2552
12-30-2009, 02:02 PM
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I looked on lingenfelters site and on the product install page, i opened up the lnc-002 instructions and it says that the diodes are optional. Seeing as i ordered my box through Nitrous Outlet, i dont know if it comes with them or not. But ill go ahead and call lingenfelter later today and ask them about it.
Thanks again for your help man, i really appreciate it!
Thanks again for your help man, i really appreciate it!
12-31-2009, 06:54 PM
#16
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I've read a little bit about the Lnc-002 and I have a question for those of you using it.
You say you are using it to pull timing when you spray. Can you use it as a two step (Launch control) as well? or is it one or the other?
Thanks
You say you are using it to pull timing when you spray. Can you use it as a two step (Launch control) as well? or is it one or the other?
Thanks
12-31-2009, 08:25 PM
#17
Yea that's one of the biggest benefit of the HSW controller, the built in delays, pedaling set-up, traction adjust-ability, any gear lock outs and so on. Feature packed no doubt. When I look at all the stuff it offers, one really needs to think, what would work where and how. Nick @ HSW did a little write-up showing some of these features in action, it was very helpful in understanding. I will link it below if I have a copy, (had to copy and paste, but it's there). Now the Lingenfelter unit, they are known for quality as job one, and I too like the the plug and play feature, though we pay for it. Nothing wrong with this controller at all, IMO, just doesn't have quite the option package as the HSW controller. I chose the MicroEdge as my controller of choice due to the ability to advance with my set-up as it advances. I figured OK, I can use my cheaper WS with minimal features, or I could invest in the future of my system. So I dumped the MSD old style pill WS and never looked back, and it controls 2 of my stages. One day I will probably add the Lingenfelter 2-step for launching, another nice piece, or wait for HSW to add it to the MicroEdge and offer a software update, you guys listening, LOL?
Robert
Robert
Additional "MicroEdge" Sub-Features Advanced users and/or advanced systems can appreciate these additional features. In house HSW engineer Nick came up with this sub-set. We are still finding and thinking of things that this remarkable controller can do.
Tips & Tricks
What if I, the user, want to reset all of my settings back to factory spec?
A: Its simple. Instead of having to fumble around with each and every setting the MicroEdge can do it in seconds. To reset all the settings back to the factory defaults push the MENU & UP ARROW button while powering the MicroEdge up.
What if I want both stages to activate in a certain gear but I have traction issues?
A: If using both stages and traction is sometimes an issue try setting the TPS triggers to different voltages. Set the first stage voltage a little lower then normal, with the second stage TPS voltage where you would normally set it to. What you can do is if traction becomes an issue with the second stage, you can ease a little off the pedal and deactivate the second stage, while allowing the first stage to still remain active until you think the second stage can be brought back in, which you can activate it again by giving it a little more pedal.
The above scenario is fantastic but I don't want to have to keep resetting different TPS values for each saved file. Is there anything that the MicroEdge can do for me?
A: Another advantage with the MicroEdge has over the other window switches out there is that there are 3 separate saved file settings. Within these 3 files you can save different TPS values, or any other value for that matter and they are all just a button push away!
Well I have decided that I like my current file and I need the same TPS value, or any value for that matter for all 3 of my files.
A: Not a problem! You can copy files with the MicroEdge controller and change only the values you need to change! The File Copy System can be used to make small changes between files. If there are only a few changes that need to be made copy over the finished file from one to the other, select the newly copied file and make the changes to that.
I was on my way home from the track last night and a fast car blew my doors off because I couldn't see the MicroEdge to make a file change.
A: All of your settings are saved inside the three files. For a quick visual reference you can set the backlight at different intensities for the different files. An example would be file 1 could have the backlight off; File 2 could have it set to high and so on. This way you can keep the doors on the car and flip between the setting easily.
I didn't know, but my wideband sensor took a dump on me, is there anything that the MicroEDGE can do for me?
A: When using the MicroEDGE with a Wideband O2 Sensor system there is both a Lean turn off set point (Max AFR) and a Rich turn off set point (Min AFR). The Rich turn off point servers two purposes, the first being that the N2O system will deactivate if the A/F Ratio goes too rich, like if your nitrous bottle was empty. The second purpose is to catch a sensor failure. When a wideband O2 sensor starts to fail it will display an overly rich condition that is not present. The MicroEDGE will pick that up and disable the nitrous system until the sensor is replaced. This way the MicroEDGE will only activate the nitrous system if it is seeing a good signal from the wideband O2 system.
I just finished installing my system. I am nervous to try testing it on the open road. Is there anything that the MicroEDGE can do for me?
A: After installing the MicroEDGE you can test the wiring of the nitrous system by setting the RPM to 0, turning off the Lean-out Delay to disable the A/F Shut Down and arm the N2O kit. Close the Nitrous bottle and make sure there is no nitrous left in any of the hoses. You will only want to do the next step for a second as there will be nothing cooling the coils of the solenoid(s). With the vehicle in accessory mode push down the gas pedal and the solenoid(s) should activate. If the TPS needed to be bypassed it could be set to 0 and the system would then activate as soon as it was armed. Or if you don't feel comfortable running the solenoids as you're doing this, simply replace them with a test light.
Hopefully you guys can take a few of these tips and tricks and implement them into your system. The instructions will also cover a few additional areas such as correcting any lean spikes etc.
Tips & Tricks
What if I, the user, want to reset all of my settings back to factory spec?
A: Its simple. Instead of having to fumble around with each and every setting the MicroEdge can do it in seconds. To reset all the settings back to the factory defaults push the MENU & UP ARROW button while powering the MicroEdge up.
What if I want both stages to activate in a certain gear but I have traction issues?
A: If using both stages and traction is sometimes an issue try setting the TPS triggers to different voltages. Set the first stage voltage a little lower then normal, with the second stage TPS voltage where you would normally set it to. What you can do is if traction becomes an issue with the second stage, you can ease a little off the pedal and deactivate the second stage, while allowing the first stage to still remain active until you think the second stage can be brought back in, which you can activate it again by giving it a little more pedal.
The above scenario is fantastic but I don't want to have to keep resetting different TPS values for each saved file. Is there anything that the MicroEdge can do for me?
A: Another advantage with the MicroEdge has over the other window switches out there is that there are 3 separate saved file settings. Within these 3 files you can save different TPS values, or any other value for that matter and they are all just a button push away!
Well I have decided that I like my current file and I need the same TPS value, or any value for that matter for all 3 of my files.
A: Not a problem! You can copy files with the MicroEdge controller and change only the values you need to change! The File Copy System can be used to make small changes between files. If there are only a few changes that need to be made copy over the finished file from one to the other, select the newly copied file and make the changes to that.
I was on my way home from the track last night and a fast car blew my doors off because I couldn't see the MicroEdge to make a file change.
A: All of your settings are saved inside the three files. For a quick visual reference you can set the backlight at different intensities for the different files. An example would be file 1 could have the backlight off; File 2 could have it set to high and so on. This way you can keep the doors on the car and flip between the setting easily.
I didn't know, but my wideband sensor took a dump on me, is there anything that the MicroEDGE can do for me?
A: When using the MicroEDGE with a Wideband O2 Sensor system there is both a Lean turn off set point (Max AFR) and a Rich turn off set point (Min AFR). The Rich turn off point servers two purposes, the first being that the N2O system will deactivate if the A/F Ratio goes too rich, like if your nitrous bottle was empty. The second purpose is to catch a sensor failure. When a wideband O2 sensor starts to fail it will display an overly rich condition that is not present. The MicroEDGE will pick that up and disable the nitrous system until the sensor is replaced. This way the MicroEDGE will only activate the nitrous system if it is seeing a good signal from the wideband O2 system.
I just finished installing my system. I am nervous to try testing it on the open road. Is there anything that the MicroEDGE can do for me?
A: After installing the MicroEDGE you can test the wiring of the nitrous system by setting the RPM to 0, turning off the Lean-out Delay to disable the A/F Shut Down and arm the N2O kit. Close the Nitrous bottle and make sure there is no nitrous left in any of the hoses. You will only want to do the next step for a second as there will be nothing cooling the coils of the solenoid(s). With the vehicle in accessory mode push down the gas pedal and the solenoid(s) should activate. If the TPS needed to be bypassed it could be set to 0 and the system would then activate as soon as it was armed. Or if you don't feel comfortable running the solenoids as you're doing this, simply replace them with a test light.
Hopefully you guys can take a few of these tips and tricks and implement them into your system. The instructions will also cover a few additional areas such as correcting any lean spikes etc.
Some of the Features of The MicroEDGE
RPM Window Switch Only operates the nitrous system within a set window of RPM.
TPS Activation Switch Only operates the nitrous system at (WOT) wide open throttle.
Dual Stage Control Allows for the use of multiple nitrous kits to be run off of one (1) window switch. IE; multiple stages which can be used with different RPM & TPS values.
A/F Shut Down Switch Nitrous system(s) will shut down if a lean condition is detected by either a wideband O2 sensor or narrowband O2 sensor. The MicroEdge will also shut down the system if an overly rich A/F is detected (wideband sensor only).
Lean Out Delay - The MicroEdge controller can be programmed to not shut down the nitrous system for a determined amount of time if a lean condition is detected. Great feature for those small lean spikes upon kit activation. This feature can be adjusted up to 10 seconds in .05 second intervals.
Multi-Gear Lock-Out Can be configured for both stages and can lock-out multiple gears to optimize traction.
Time Delays Activation of kits can be delayed for up to 10 seconds in .05 second intervals.
Pedal Delay Delay(s) used to re-gain traction if the system is activated and the gas pedal is let off due to wheel spin and then re-applied. This allows for momentum to be built prior to re-activating the nitrous system(s). Both stages have their own pedal delay, which is adjustable up to 10 seconds in .05 second intervals.
Nitrous Solenoid Delay Delays the nitrous solenoid from being activated for an amount of time after the kit is activated. This helps to cure any lean spike issues that are pre-existing in the system.
Display Built in LCD display can show RPM, A/F Ratio (mV for narrowband), TPS voltage, Battery Voltage, and Arming Switch Voltage.
File System Up to three (3) files can be saved within the MicroEdge unit for quick and easy flipping between runs.
RPM Window Switch Only operates the nitrous system within a set window of RPM.
TPS Activation Switch Only operates the nitrous system at (WOT) wide open throttle.
Dual Stage Control Allows for the use of multiple nitrous kits to be run off of one (1) window switch. IE; multiple stages which can be used with different RPM & TPS values.
A/F Shut Down Switch Nitrous system(s) will shut down if a lean condition is detected by either a wideband O2 sensor or narrowband O2 sensor. The MicroEdge will also shut down the system if an overly rich A/F is detected (wideband sensor only).
Lean Out Delay - The MicroEdge controller can be programmed to not shut down the nitrous system for a determined amount of time if a lean condition is detected. Great feature for those small lean spikes upon kit activation. This feature can be adjusted up to 10 seconds in .05 second intervals.
Multi-Gear Lock-Out Can be configured for both stages and can lock-out multiple gears to optimize traction.
Time Delays Activation of kits can be delayed for up to 10 seconds in .05 second intervals.
Pedal Delay Delay(s) used to re-gain traction if the system is activated and the gas pedal is let off due to wheel spin and then re-applied. This allows for momentum to be built prior to re-activating the nitrous system(s). Both stages have their own pedal delay, which is adjustable up to 10 seconds in .05 second intervals.
Nitrous Solenoid Delay Delays the nitrous solenoid from being activated for an amount of time after the kit is activated. This helps to cure any lean spike issues that are pre-existing in the system.
Display Built in LCD display can show RPM, A/F Ratio (mV for narrowband), TPS voltage, Battery Voltage, and Arming Switch Voltage.
File System Up to three (3) files can be saved within the MicroEdge unit for quick and easy flipping between runs.
12-31-2009, 08:34 PM
#18
I run the lingenfelter with the rev limiter built in, I love it works flawless.. I can pull any amount of timing I want in a matter of seconds, and control when it is pulled it has a delay. Super product. If you go with it, be sure you get the noise suppression diodes on the solenoids to protect the unit.
Robert
12-31-2009, 08:56 PM
#19
10 Second Club
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That is something to point out that can benefit us all. The Lingenfelter unit uses the spark as the Rev limit control, where as our stock PCM uses the fuel system. Hitting the rev limiter while spraying and have the fuel system turned off will insite problems, like a high-RPM lean back fire, been there done that. So we can either turn our stock rev limiter off, or set it high enough as to never use it, then set the Lingenfelter as the real rev limiter. safety is job one.
Robert
Robert
Wouldnt it be nice to have a progressive controller that pulls timing, acts as a launch control, window switch, and all the other cool stuff - all in one unit?
I guess it really doesnt matter, just piece together all the best pieces to build a safe and reliable kit.
01-01-2010, 06:45 AM
#20
But in this set-up you would still need a window switch of some sort, correct?
Wouldnt it be nice to have a progressive controller that pulls timing, acts as a launch control, window switch, and all the other cool stuff - all in one unit?
I guess it really doesnt matter, just piece together all the best pieces to build a safe and reliable kit.
Wouldnt it be nice to have a progressive controller that pulls timing, acts as a launch control, window switch, and all the other cool stuff - all in one unit?
I guess it really doesnt matter, just piece together all the best pieces to build a safe and reliable kit.
I agree with your comments, 2nd and 3rd. That is why likely I will still need to add a Lingenfelter on top of my MicroEdge as neither has everything I want, damn...
Robert