Compare KOOKS 1 3/4" to TSP 1 7/8 Headers For Me
01-15-2010, 06:45 PM
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Compare KOOKS 1 3/4" to TSP 1 7/8 Headers For Me I'm going to be purchasing either the KOOKS 1 3/4" or TSP 1 7/8" headers. I have a sponsor on here willing to give me a GREAT deal on the KOOKS 1 3/4" but even at this deal the TSP 1 7/8" still would be considerably cheaper (and maybe even more if TSP would consider a GP or something). My car will be a full bolt on car with FAST 92/92 combo (maybe unless the mm I choose changes). Along with Advanced Induction really nice ported 243 LS6 heads with a Futral Motorsports F14 high lift cam (flycut pistons). Which ever headers we decide would be the best will be sending the gases through the TSP 3" X pipe true dual kit. Now I know the design of the collector on the KOOKS is outstanding and I'm not sure how they compare on the TSP. Is that enough by it's self to go with the KOOKS or how much power might I lose going with the TSP (if any) ?
Last edited by RedHottG2; 01-15-2010 at 07:53 PM.
01-15-2010, 06:59 PM
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Also I forgot my car will be staying a 346ci for now until I max that out. Another thing is I know the KOOKS are stainless and the TSP are coated. I'm not to terribly worried about that even though the stainless will look better over time and hold up longer. I'm more worried about the flow and power difference and if it's going to be a big difference or just minimal. And if small what exactly would "small" be ?
01-18-2010, 06:53 PM
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i went with TSP 1 7/8 headers on my 346. Tsp says you wont loose low end throttle response and you will gain up top. Also if you ever plan to go bigger you already have the headers to support ur new found cubes. Not to mention you cant beat the price..
01-19-2010, 09:53 AM
#6
On a stock motor on our engine dyno, the 1 7/8" headers made better power over a 1 3/4" primary header from about 3000 RPM up. That was on a bone stock motor with an intake! I would think if the motor has a cam or heads/cam combo, the larger primary header would shine even more where it counts. Don't get me wrong, the Kook's are very nice and if you are looking for a stainless header, they are very hard to beat. However, if you are looking for a nice header that will make the power and save some money at the same time, the 1 7/8" TSP headers are VERY hard to beat!
Jon
Jon
01-22-2010, 09:52 PM
#7
On a stock motor on our engine dyno, the 1 7/8" headers made better power over a 1 3/4" primary header from about 3000 RPM up. That was on a bone stock motor with an intake! I would think if the motor has a cam or heads/cam combo, the larger primary header would shine even more where it counts. Don't get me wrong, the Kook's are very nice and if you are looking for a stainless header, they are very hard to beat. However, if you are looking for a nice header that will make the power and save some money at the same time, the 1 7/8" TSP headers are VERY hard to beat!
Jon
Jon
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01-22-2010, 10:22 PM
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Kooks without question. The TSP ones look just like Pacesetters, and if so, that immediately negates any minor power gain you'll get from the larger primaries in my opinion when you look at quality of the materials, build quality, etc. However, the Kooks also probably have a nice merge collector on them, which may be worth more power than larger primaries.
The bottom line is how can you compare a budget header to a non-budget header? Both will probaby make very similar power, but the Kooks should be better built and will hold up better to the elements. I guess it just depends if you want to spend $500 more or not...
The bottom line is how can you compare a budget header to a non-budget header? Both will probaby make very similar power, but the Kooks should be better built and will hold up better to the elements. I guess it just depends if you want to spend $500 more or not...
01-27-2010, 12:41 AM
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I have been running the pacesetter non coated headers for 5 1/2 years and there still going strong. Yeah they dont look pretty but there not suppose to do that there suppose to make power.
01-27-2010, 10:05 AM
#12
So what you're saying is a mild steel ceramic coated header can not make the same power as a stainless header? I guess this is the good thing about having an in house engine dyno. We actually test these kind of things and actually have the data to be able to share with everyone. You can do a search on this forum and find the thread with the actual sheets from the dyno and see where the larger primary outperformed the smaller. The material used doesn't have anything to do with it. Like I mentioned in my first post, if you are looking for a stainless header Kook's or ARH are great options and are extremely nice. That's why we sell them as well. But if you are looking for a larger primary header that will produce the power and are a more budget friendly alternative to the pricey stainless, then the TSP headers are a great alternative.
Jon
Jon
Kooks without question. The TSP ones look just like Pacesetters, and if so, that immediately negates any minor power gain you'll get from the larger primaries in my opinion when you look at quality of the materials, build quality, etc. However, the Kooks also probably have a nice merge collector on them, which may be worth more power than larger primaries.
The bottom line is how can you compare a budget header to a non-budget header? Both will probaby make very similar power, but the Kooks should be better built and will hold up better to the elements. I guess it just depends if you want to spend $500 more or not...
The bottom line is how can you compare a budget header to a non-budget header? Both will probaby make very similar power, but the Kooks should be better built and will hold up better to the elements. I guess it just depends if you want to spend $500 more or not...
01-27-2010, 03:28 PM
#16
I read this a long time ago, written by Chuck @ HPE. This is his opinion on coated headers:
Another thing we could go into is coatings, and how much I dislike them on headers Ceramic coated headers always seem to cause detonation. Why? Well everybody jumps on this bandwagon of wanting to keep underhood temps down. Which is great, I love it, whatever you can do to keep underhood temps down is going to help make the motor produce more power. But what we're doing by ceramic coating the headers is we are locking that heat inside the exhaust... Not allowing it to dissipate... This heat now acts as an agent in producing detonation. Almost every car I've ever tuned that had ceramic coated headers, was not able to take as much ignition timing as a car with uncoated stainless steel headers. So the power was greatly reduced because instead of tuning for all out power, I had to tune for detonation. Extra fuel, and less timing... Things that have a great effect on what kinds numbers your car will put down on the dyno, and at the track.
Another thing we could go into is coatings, and how much I dislike them on headers Ceramic coated headers always seem to cause detonation. Why? Well everybody jumps on this bandwagon of wanting to keep underhood temps down. Which is great, I love it, whatever you can do to keep underhood temps down is going to help make the motor produce more power. But what we're doing by ceramic coating the headers is we are locking that heat inside the exhaust... Not allowing it to dissipate... This heat now acts as an agent in producing detonation. Almost every car I've ever tuned that had ceramic coated headers, was not able to take as much ignition timing as a car with uncoated stainless steel headers. So the power was greatly reduced because instead of tuning for all out power, I had to tune for detonation. Extra fuel, and less timing... Things that have a great effect on what kinds numbers your car will put down on the dyno, and at the track.
01-31-2010, 02:42 PM
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I read this a long time ago, written by Chuck @ HPE. This is his opinion on coated headers:
Another thing we could go into is coatings, and how much I dislike them on headers Ceramic coated headers always seem to cause detonation. Why? Well everybody jumps on this bandwagon of wanting to keep underhood temps down. Which is great, I love it, whatever you can do to keep underhood temps down is going to help make the motor produce more power. But what we're doing by ceramic coating the headers is we are locking that heat inside the exhaust... Not allowing it to dissipate... This heat now acts as an agent in producing detonation. Almost every car I've ever tuned that had ceramic coated headers, was not able to take as much ignition timing as a car with uncoated stainless steel headers. So the power was greatly reduced because instead of tuning for all out power, I had to tune for detonation. Extra fuel, and less timing... Things that have a great effect on what kinds numbers your car will put down on the dyno, and at the track.
Another thing we could go into is coatings, and how much I dislike them on headers Ceramic coated headers always seem to cause detonation. Why? Well everybody jumps on this bandwagon of wanting to keep underhood temps down. Which is great, I love it, whatever you can do to keep underhood temps down is going to help make the motor produce more power. But what we're doing by ceramic coating the headers is we are locking that heat inside the exhaust... Not allowing it to dissipate... This heat now acts as an agent in producing detonation. Almost every car I've ever tuned that had ceramic coated headers, was not able to take as much ignition timing as a car with uncoated stainless steel headers. So the power was greatly reduced because instead of tuning for all out power, I had to tune for detonation. Extra fuel, and less timing... Things that have a great effect on what kinds numbers your car will put down on the dyno, and at the track.
wow, I never even though of this! It does make sense, that the heat would not dissipate. So if I were to go with stainless who makes the best fitting and best clearance header between ARH and Kooks. I will be dropping my car in the future about 1 1/2" and don't want issues.
02-01-2010, 06:53 PM
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OK guys I'm ordering my KOOKS 1 3/4" headers tomorrow stainless w/o coating. I got a GREAT deal from a vendor here for $749.99 shipped for the # 6500RHS-MC http://www.kookscustomheaders.com/sh...?pid=167&ptn=0
I'll be matching this up with the TSP true duals (also ordering tomorrow).
My question is this, is this w/o question the right headers to get from KOOKS for a 1 3/4" race application ? I won't be surprised by anything or learn something better was offered from KOOKS later that I didn't know about now will I ? Just making sure I have all my ducks in a line before I make the purchase in the morning. Thanks again for all your help guys, you have all been GREAT!
TSP Jon, I'll be giving you a call in the morning to order the true dual kit (unless you want to make me a package deal with the headers and duals together) ?
I'll be matching this up with the TSP true duals (also ordering tomorrow).
My question is this, is this w/o question the right headers to get from KOOKS for a 1 3/4" race application ? I won't be surprised by anything or learn something better was offered from KOOKS later that I didn't know about now will I ? Just making sure I have all my ducks in a line before I make the purchase in the morning. Thanks again for all your help guys, you have all been GREAT!
TSP Jon, I'll be giving you a call in the morning to order the true dual kit (unless you want to make me a package deal with the headers and duals together) ?
02-02-2010, 01:30 AM
#20
You can't go wrong with the Kooks.If you plan on keeping your car, you will be glad you
went with the stainless.I think that they were worth the extra money I spent for them.
went with the stainless.I think that they were worth the extra money I spent for them.