Chevrolet Performance LSX Challenge Series and LSX Shootout - Drag Radial rules




View Full Version : Drag Radial rules


TwnTrboCE
01-30-2010, 05:13 PM
Boy I sure am glad us single turbo guys can take out that 300lbs of ballast we had to run last year. :jest:

Anybody got any 88's for sale? :eyes:


tim99ws6
01-30-2010, 05:15 PM
Hahahahahahaha

ATVracr
01-30-2010, 05:39 PM
You mean a 106 cant run with 88's?
Say it aint so. LOL

1 word .... clueless.


Pro Stock John
01-30-2010, 09:51 PM
LOL Mike did you have any ballast?

suicidal racing
01-30-2010, 10:18 PM
man nmca needs to step away from d/r as a whole..

lets see twin 88s have been 6.90s with a small block weighing #100 pounds more then a single turbo deal
single 106mm has been 7.40s with a small block
single 114mm has been 7.20s with a small block

max twins allowed should be 76mm at 100#s more

but hey what do i know ive only been around drag radial for 10yrs

BlwnTA
01-31-2010, 06:45 AM
Mike was over weight last year, with a strict winter diet he will be lucky to get under 3400. I'm the lightest of the 3 of us and will likely be at 3250. The FI power adder rules need some serious consideration. I don't know any GM FI cars that can get to those proposed weights so they are useless. And only 150 lbs for twin 88's isn't going to work. I have not talked to Mike and Steve so these only my opinions but since we have been a good supporting cast since the inception, I would hope this would be considered before the rules are finalized.

Brake lights???? so we took away the horn (which was good) and added brakelights? I understand headlights/tailights for safety in the dark but what difference does it make if you have brake lights?

BTW...Any size single turbo should be allowed...;)


Mark

InconFormula
01-31-2010, 02:29 PM
You need tailights so you can see me slowing down in front of you in the shutdown dummy!!:eyes:

Justin@GMHTP
01-31-2010, 06:58 PM
Since the rules aren't yet set in stone, lets open up a real dialog, sans sarcastic quips and get some of the weights/limits/rules ironed out.

Using the posted rule, let all make some changes in bold and see what we can come up with.

--------------------------------------

BASE WEIGHTS
POWER ADDER CID WEIGHT
Nitrous 500 2750
Supercharged 500 2950
Single Turbo (106) 500 3100
Twin Turbo (88) 500 3250

Maximum cubic inches is 510
If actual cubic inch is more than base cubic inch listing there will be a weight penalty of 8.5 lbs. per cubic inch assessed to weights, up to the maximum cubic inch permitted in the class

WEIGHT ADDER/DEDUCTS
Sheet metal intakes add 50 pounds
Ladder bar or 4 link suspension add 100 pounds

ENGINE
Only LS based small block engines are allowed.
Cast aluminum or iron block permitted
Billet cylinder heads and blocks are prohibited
Any LS OEM or LS aftermarket head.
Any modifications allowed to heads
Displacement will be verified by using the P&G method
Dry sump oiling systems permitted
Exhaust must be directed away from vehicle, through the fender exhaust permitted
Nitrous and Supercharged combinations must run mufflers.
Zoomie headers are prohibited
Gasoline is the only fuel allowed

CARBURETOR/INDUCTION
Any style carburetor permitted including split dominators-maximum 2-carbs
Any EFI system permitted
Any Intake manifold allowed, including sheet metal/fabricated manifolds (*see weights)

POWER ADDERS
Only one style of power adder permitted.
NITROUS OXIDE: Any nitrous system permitted including push systems. No maximum number of stages. The use of agents other than nitrous oxide as part of, or mixed in, the system are prohibited. Nitrous oxide may not be used in conjunction with any other power adder. Nitrous oxide systems must use gasoline only for the fuel enrichment circuit.
SINGLE CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGER: Inlet diameter-internal OD 5.250-inch maximum, impeller inducer diameter 5.150-inch maximum, impeller exducer diameter 8.000-inch, discharge diameter-external 4.00-inch, housing diameter (greatest external diameter of housing not to include discharge) 12.0 maximum. Injection of any liquid, gas, or any other substance into the inlet or exhaust housing is strictly prohibited. Supercharger compressor wheel must be constructed of cast or billet aluminum. Exotic material wheels prohibited.
SINGLE TURBOCHARGER: Accepted single turbochargers are permitted with the following requirements: 1) Turbocharger must be of conventional impeller and housing design and type. 2) Turbocharger is limited to a maximum size of 4.173” (106.0mm) - inducer wheel diameter at the point where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the inlet housing. 3) Inlet housing is permitted a maximum inlet diameter of 4.253” where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the housing. 4) All air entering the turbocharger must pass through the turbocharger inlet. Injection of any liquid, gas, or any other substance into the inlet or exhaust housing is strictly prohibited. Turbocharger compressor wheel must be constructed of cast or billet aluminum. Exotic material wheels prohibited. The tips of the impeller wheel may not be stepped, cut down, or notched to meet impeller tip-to-tip dimension.
TWIN TURBOCHARGERS: Accepted twin turbochargers are permitted with the following requirements: 1) Both turbochargers must be of conventional impeller and housing design and type. 2) Turbochargers are limited to a maximum size of 88 mm/3.465” - inducer wheel diameter at the point where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the inlet housing. 3) Inlet housing is permitted a maximum inlet diameter of 3.545” where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the housing. 4) All air entering the turbocharger must pass through the turbocharger inlet. Injection of any liquid, gas, or any other substance into the inlet or exhaust housing is strictly prohibited. Turbocharger compressor wheel must be constructed of cast or billet aluminum. Exotic material wheels prohibited. The tips of the impeller wheel may not be stepped, cut down, or notched to meet impeller tip-to-tip dimension.

TRANSMISSION
Limited to only OEM style automatic transmissions (aftermarket SFI cases permitted)
Any torque converter allowed. Lock-up type permitted.

SUSPENSION
Stock unaltered frame rails required in front sub frame. Stock rear sub frames are required, but outer frame rail portion only may be notched for tire clearance only. When notching, stock inboard section of rear frame rails must remain stock, unaltered, and in stock location. Rear frame rails must remain in OEM stock condition in all areas.
Aftermarket K-members permitted
Fully tubbed or mini tubbed wheel wells permitted
ladder bars and non-OEM 4-links permitted
Coilovers permitted
Front-wheel drive conversions prohibited
Wheelie bars are permitted

INTERIOR
Must be stock appearing.
Floors must be upholstered, headliners required
Passenger seat and rear seat may be removed
OEM appearing dash required

BODY
Forward facing hood scoops prohibited except for OEM type for non-nitrous applications
Forward facing hood scoops permitted for nitrous applications
Cowl induction hoods permitted,
OEM composite body panels permitted
Light-weight or fiberglass body pieces limited to hood, rear deck and bumpers
Overhangs must be OEM, Wheelbase must be OEM +/- 1”
Doors must be OEM
Rear spoilers permitted, max length 26”, may not be molded into the body

WINDSHIELD/WINDOWS
OEM safety glass or Lexan Permitted. Window tint is prohibited forward of the “B” pillar.

STREET EQUIPMENT
Functional headlights, taillights and brake lights required. Headlights, marker lights, brake lights, etc. must be on car and not removed for any reason.

ELECTRICAL
Electronic driving aids prohibited
Throttle stops, delay boxes and auto shifters prohibited
Two-step, trans-brakes and line-locks are permitted
Any aftermarket ignition permitted

TIRES-WHEELS
TIRES - FRONT: Front tires must have a minimum tread width of 4.5 inches.
TIRES – REAR: DOT Drag Radial Tires ONLY
The maximum allowed tire size is 315 as marked on the sidewall
ANY size wheel permitted
Bead-locks permitted

BALLAST
Must be NHRA/IHRA approved mounting - Maximum 100# per individual weight bar
No loose or unsecured ballast allowed and will be grounds for disqualification. Vehicles are required to cross scales after each qualifying run and eliminations rounds.

NMCA REQUIRED DECALS:
NMCA WINDSHIELD DECAL – must be installed on top of windshield. This NMCA decal must be the only decal on top of windshield. Other vehicle sponsor decals may be placed at base of windshield.
NMCA SIDE DECAL- must be installed on side widow of vehicle.
CLASS SPONSOR DEACAL- GM Performance Parts decal must be installed on lower right side of front windshield.

CONTINGENCY DECALS
Decals are required to appear only on the rear quarter windows or rear window in a clear and orderly fashion. Contingency decals may not be overlapped or modified

------------------------


Disclaimer, I am not on the rules committee, just a concerned fan/journalist.

ATVracr
01-31-2010, 07:10 PM
DR rules ...

Must be LS based ....

Turbo... 3300lbs.
Supercharger ...3000lbs.
Nitrous ...2800lbs.

Run what you brung under those weights.

I pay to see that class run. :)

BAKED
01-31-2010, 07:46 PM
I see that the "Stock front frame rails" rule is in there too. I thought a few of the "Faster" turbo cars had them cut off part of the way...

ATVracr
01-31-2010, 07:59 PM
I see that the "Stock front frame rails" rule is in there too. I thought a few of the "Faster" turbo cars had them cut off part of the way...

Interesting.

That is a strange rule.

BlwnTA
01-31-2010, 08:28 PM
You need tailights so you can see me slowing down in front of you in the shutdown dummy!!:eyes:

Read my post "dummy":chuck-bal...I said brakelights...not tailights. How about we hook your brakelights up to your throttle cable....that would tell an interesting story from the starting line...especially at night, lol. It would look like a disco party down the 1320' :lol:

Josh@PremierAutosports
01-31-2010, 09:06 PM
Have the rules been changed to allow a Mustang like Phil's with a lsx based motor to run? Also a 114 needs to be allowed and at least 100-150 lbs added to the weight breaks.

BillyBob750
01-31-2010, 09:47 PM
Nope.. Id love to see Phil, and any of the other swapped guys out there be able to participate, but I dont see the rules committee budging on this one. The class is sponsored by GM Performance Parts, and I dont think they want some blue oval coming in and stealing the show.

The weights need some revisions as well. I dont see anyone being able to get their car down to 3100LBS... If everyone is stuck in the 3300LB range, then you've put the twin turbo guys at the same weight as the single turbo guys. Twin 88MM > 106MM. Maybe 3250 and 3400? Or possibly... unlimited single turbo, twin 88's and everyone at 3300?

Read my post "dummy":chuck-bal...I said brakelights...not tailights. How about we hook your brakelights up to your throttle cable....that would tell an interesting story from the starting line...especially at night, lol. It would look like a disco party down the 1320' :lol:

I LOLed a little.

:nutkick:

GrannySShifting
01-31-2010, 10:58 PM
All ls1 powered vehicles should be allowed. Period. We dont care if its in a 55 chevy if it meets the weights/rules in a full body car with factory framerails

BillyBob750
02-01-2010, 12:18 PM
I believe thats how the rules are written. Doesnt matter if its a 68 Camaro, or an 02 Super Sport.. If its got an LS1 under the hood and meets the other rules, its good to go.

Pro Stock John
02-01-2010, 12:33 PM
Looks like GM bodied entries only Dalton:

LSX DRAG RADIAL

GENERAL OVERVIEW
This is a single Power Adder Shootout class developed for LS powered, GM bodied cars or trucks.

Phil99vette
02-01-2010, 12:50 PM
man nmca needs to step away from d/r as a whole..

lets see twin 88s have been 6.90s with a small block weighing #100 pounds more then a single turbo deal
single 106mm has been 7.40s with a small block
single 114mm has been 7.20s with a small block

max twins allowed should be 76mm at 100#s more

but hey what do i know ive only been around drag radial for 10yrs

We've been in the 7.2 range with a 106 with very little testing @ 3285 and on 7 cylinder hits, we have made consistent passes .12 faster to the 1/8 mile. The 106 has the capability to go 7.05-7.10 on a perfect pass @ 3300. I'll run any twin 88 small block with a 100# weight break. Thats more than fair.

Fiscus has been 6.9s on perfect passes and I think they were at 3300.

Phil99vette
02-01-2010, 12:55 PM
DR rules ...

Must be LS based ....

Turbo... 3300lbs.
Supercharger ...3000lbs.
Nitrous ...2800lbs.

Run what you brung under those weights.

I pay to see that class run. :)

How about....
Turbo(Twins) - 3100
Turbo(single) - 3000lbs.
Supercharger(twin) - 2800
Supercharger(single) ...2700
Nitrous - 2500

ATVracr
02-01-2010, 01:06 PM
How about....
Turbo(Twins) - 3100
Turbo(single) - 3000lbs.
Supercharger(twin) - 2800
Supercharger(single) ...2700
Nitrous - 2500

Damn RUSTangs can get that light but the Fbody guys cant Phil.
put 200lbs on all those and it would be more realistic I think. :confused:

I dont think they are going to mess with the DR rules to much anyhow.

Phil99vette
02-01-2010, 01:29 PM
If you can get a F-body to 3200, what happens when you put a set of light doors on it? I know my sled saved 150# with a set of doors.

ATVracr
02-01-2010, 01:33 PM
If you can get a F-body to 3200, what happens when you put a set of light doors on it? I know my sled saved 150# with a set of doors.

Not sure the turbo guys can get that light?

Ours are fiberglass already ... how much can we save?
got a website?

TwnTrboCE
02-01-2010, 02:49 PM
If you can get a F-body to 3200, what happens when you put a set of light doors on it? I know my sled saved 150# with a set of doors.

BODY
Forward facing hood scoops prohibited except for OEM type for non-nitrous applications
Forward facing hood scoops permitted for nitrous applications
Cowl induction hoods permitted,
OEM composite body panels permitted
Light-weight or fiberglass body pieces limited to hood, rear deck and bumpers
Overhangs must be OEM, Wheelbase must be OEM +/- 1”
Doors must be OEM
Rear spoilers permitted, max length 26”, may not be molded into the body
The thing is that we have ran this event for 3 years at 3400lb base weight. Then they go and propose we run 300lbs lighter for this year. They have even said in the 275 rules discusion that getting the weight out of these cars is hard. It just doesn't make any sense... I think 3300 for any single and 3400 for twins is where it should be. With the base engine side on the twins dropped down.
Right now what they have drawn up. I doubt any single or twin car will make there proposed weights. So us 400+ cube singles could be running 500 cube twin 88 cars at the same weight. Its not a weight penalty if nobody can reach the base weight. I think we have heard that from the nitrous guys for a few years now.

BlwnTA
02-01-2010, 04:19 PM
We've been in the 7.2 range with a 106 with very little testing @ 3285 and on 7 cylinder hits, we have made consistent passes .12 faster to the 1/8 mile. The 106 has the capability to go 7.05-7.10 on a perfect pass @ 3300. I'll run any twin 88 small block with a 100# weight break. Thats more than fair.

Fiscus has been 6.9s on perfect passes and I think they were at 3300.

Yea..but that's with those factory 4 links you guys are runnin, lol

BlwnTA
02-01-2010, 04:22 PM
If you can get a F-body to 3200, what happens when you put a set of light doors on it? I know my sled saved 150# with a set of doors.

I know you can't get that much out of an F-body on the doors...they are already pretty light (and fiberglass) when you cut all the guts out like I did. The lightest I have been (2008) was 3150 race weight (and I'm only 170 of that). I'm sure there's more but I don't think enough to get down to the proposed weight.

Pro Stock John
02-01-2010, 04:25 PM
Hey Mike/Mark/Phil/Steve, while you are reading this thread, what do you think about this structure:

106mm, 3250
114mm, 3400
76mm twins, 3250
88mm twins, 3400

Would that be a good enough spread? I'm asking for the other rules I am involved in. I was going to make the weights more simple, but this just popped into my head. I'm guessing that Steve can get lighter than you (you still running a TA hatch?).

BlwnTA
02-01-2010, 07:37 PM
Hey Mike/Mark/Phil/Steve, while you are reading this thread, what do you think about this structure:

106mm, 3250
114mm, 3400
76mm twins, 3250
88mm twins, 3400

Would that be a good enough spread? I'm asking for the other rules I am involved in. I was going to make the weights more simple, but this just popped into my head. I'm guessing that Steve can get lighter than you (you still running a TA hatch?).

Thats closer to what were thinking but the power capability of a 114 falls short of twin 88's. Of course Phil is going to call me biased, lol..but I think there 's enough info out there that backs it up. Maybe....

106mm, 3200
114mm, 3300
76mm twins, 3300
88mm twins, 3400

Even if the lowest weight is 3200...most racers tend to run 25+lbs heavy to be safe on the scales so 3225-3250 would be the norm anyway.


Mark

FSTR-THANU
02-01-2010, 08:33 PM
Just let me run my 114 and I could care less about the rest. The brake lights are a little lame but not the end of the world; I thought the horn rule was dumb too but we hooked one up.


Tom

BAKED
02-02-2010, 07:43 AM
How many guys are actually running twin 76's or twin 88's that you guys know of?

TwnTrboCE
02-02-2010, 08:11 AM
How many guys are actually running twin 76's or twin 88's that you guys know of?
Nobody runs twin 76s unless there racing at the past LSX races. Wormy is running 88s on there car. Major has gone BB with the Vette but is looking at building an F-body with his LS motor. If your going to run twins in this game there going to be 88s.

BAKED
02-02-2010, 08:27 AM
No doubt, I just wondered if anyone already has a car that is setup with twin 88's. I wouldn't be surprised to see Major show up with something nasty like that.

His spare engine costs more than my whole car.... And trailer! LOL

Phil99vette
02-03-2010, 08:38 AM
Hey Mike/Mark/Phil/Steve, while you are reading this thread, what do you think about this structure:

106mm, 3250
114mm, 3400
76mm twins, 3250
88mm twins, 3400

Would that be a good enough spread? I'm asking for the other rules I am involved in. I was going to make the weights more simple, but this just popped into my head. I'm guessing that Steve can get lighter than you (you still running a TA hatch?).

106mm - 3250
114mm - 3300
88mm twins - 3350

Are the 88s limited to cast wheels or can you run billet? I say its run what ya brung with the weights.

Phil99vette
02-03-2010, 08:39 AM
Yea..but that's with those factory 4 links you guys are runnin, lol

LOL, So you think a 4 link has an advantage over a properly setup torque arm?

InconFormula
02-03-2010, 02:23 PM
I dont really care what the weights and rules are, just tell me when and where the race is!

Robin L
02-03-2010, 02:50 PM
Just let me run my 114 and I could care less about the rest. The brake lights are a little lame but not the end of the world; I thought the horn rule was dumb too but we hooked one up.


Tom

If your looking for the 114 I would send Jeff a request per that e mail address that he posted. The preliminary rules didn't have the 114 and I don't know if anyone had asked for it.

Robin

TwnTrboCE
02-03-2010, 09:13 PM
I dont really care what the weights and rules are, just tell me when and where the race is!
And as long as you don't have to run against me... You should do just fine. :engarde:

Pro Stock John
02-03-2010, 09:22 PM
I suggested to Jeff Conley to think of weights for:

106
114
76 twins
88 twins

There's a little bit of everything out there this year.

Justin@GMHTP
02-04-2010, 05:56 PM
New rules are posted - make sure you check them out and leave some feedback. The rules committee is listening and making some great changes.

114 is in!

FSTR-THANU
02-04-2010, 07:42 PM
New rules are posted - make sure you check them out and leave some feedback. The rules committee is listening and making some great changes.

114 is in!

Cool! Now make the 106 and twin 76's 3300lbs. and the the 88's and 114 3400lbs.

Thanks,

Tom

Robin L
02-04-2010, 07:54 PM
Cool! Now make the 106 and twin 76's 3300lbs. and the the 88's and 114 3400lbs.

Thanks,

Tom

Thought someone said no one would run a pair of 76's Why do you care?:D

Still collecting info on the 114. One thing at a time wild man!

Hmmm,

Robin

TwnTrboCE
02-04-2010, 08:11 PM
Thought someone said no one would run a pair of 76's Why do you care?:D

Still collecting info on the 114. One thing at a time wild man!

Hmmm,

Robin
Well I know of two cars that bought a pair of 76's to run just at this race in the past. They were at the same weight then... It just makes sense to me that they still would this year. I know those two cars won't be showing up with them. But somebody may have bought them and would like a break from the 88 guys.

FSTR-THANU
02-04-2010, 08:25 PM
Well I know of two cars that bought a pair of 76's to run just at this race in the past. They were at the same weight then... It just makes sense to me that they still would this year. I know those two cars won't be showing up with them. But somebody may have bought them and would like a break from the 88 guys.

That was my logic.

Robin L
02-05-2010, 08:30 AM
Cool! Now make the 106 and twin 76's 3300lbs. and the the 88's and 114 3400lbs.

Thanks,

Tom

OK the twin 76's was a typo. Changed to 3300. We won't have a number for the 114 till Jeff is able to discuss with tthe vendor. So far no returned call.:confused:

Thanks

Robin

Jim Filipowski
02-23-2010, 10:25 AM
Here my 2 cents....NMCA=NSCA....been there and will not go down that road again with the stroke of the pencil rule changes...Have fun guys!!!!!