View Full Version : Advice for how to reach 410hp-450hp Budget build.


Silvia346ci
02-08-2010, 07:28 PM
I've been searching around for parts but there are so many combination's I can't wrap my head on what to get a cam, heads, what year what vendor to buy from??

So far this is what I got:

Stock 806 heads
LS6 Intake Manifold
Custom Long tube Exhaust with cut outs/
80mm TB
Through T56 transmission
Aluminum Driveshaft.


Actually I'm aiming for at least 450fwhp nice flat power curve to redline. That's all nothing special I'll be happy with that.

I'm on a budget build here so what suggestions would yield me the numbers I'm looking for ALL MOTOR?


Get a 500+ lift Cam?
Roller Rockers?
Swap heads to 243's or 241's?
Computer Tune?


It's going in my S14.

Silvia346ci
02-08-2010, 07:38 PM
I've been reading that a cam alone will get me 400 at the wheels. Is that possible with my setup?
They got 90mm TB's on ebay for $100 are those any good?

I'm so new to LS1's I don't have a clue to what their potentials are. So please bare with me...

1998_trans_am_ls1
02-08-2010, 08:47 PM
with ported 243s and the right cam youd be at 400 easy

ZL1Killa
02-08-2010, 08:53 PM
good head cam combo you will dyno RWHP around ~42x or so

Silvia346ci
02-08-2010, 09:04 PM
What about if I keep the 806 heads with a tr224 or 228r cam, roller rockers and a moderate tune? What numbers would I expect? I've read with 241 heads 380ish whp ??

Oh and how about I raise compression with a thinner gasket with cam and my heads? Or get them milled?

Silvia346ci
02-08-2010, 09:45 PM
Damn now I need to decide what pushrods to get there are so many and at different length's and types, also the lifters LS7 rollers is that the one I need to get?

I could use a good run down of what to get can someone please help with the basic prep work and parts please?

What about these 241 heads http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LS1-LS2-LS6-5-7-6-0-CYLINDER-HEADS-241-camaro-firebird_W0QQitemZ230432384950QQcmdZViewItemQQptZM otors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a6d72 7b6
243's are a bit pricey and I don't think I need them to reach my goal.

garygnu
02-08-2010, 09:57 PM
push rods are one of the last things to get .

ws6fitz
02-08-2010, 11:53 PM
Got a cam only 224/224 with stock heads. Making 400+ at the tires. Have ls6 intake with an underdrive pully and slp lid, patriot gold springs and a double roller timing chain. All can be done fairly cheep if you do the work yourself. If not tends to get pricy. pm me with any questions.

Hamrdown
02-09-2010, 12:46 AM
You don't need roller rockers. The stock ones were designed very well and will work with your goals. I made 380rwhp through a cammed and stalled a4 car. So you should easily get 400+ rwhp with a cam only set up. I would have your throttle body ported to help

Hamrdown
02-09-2010, 12:58 AM
The tr 224 cam is a good choice and I'd get it on a 112lsa for a little choppier idle and more midrange torque. I'd give Thunder Racing a call and they can give you a rundown on everything needed. A camshaft swap cost alot more than just the price of a cam. You need the cam, valve springs, all accompaning gaskets, push rods, new balancer bolt as they can only be used once,while your there you may as well replace the oil pump with an LS6 pump and put on an underdrive pulley and change the spark plugs and wires for a complete tune up and then have everything tuned afterward. Not to mention all of the tools needed to do the job that you may not already have. Go to ls1howto.com and go to the f body cam install thread. It will explain in detail what you will need to accomplish this. I'm not trying to scare you away from the process. I'm just informing you about everything in store to do such a task as I know beginners can easily overlook the other nessesities. BTW once you do put in a new cam that has been properly chosen for your set up (preferably by a cam expert, thunderracing has a great rep for speccing out cams) your car can become a drug and speed the fix. Haha

Silvia346ci
02-09-2010, 01:32 AM
Thanks Hamrdown,


I think from what I read so far these 243's are the talk as the best upgrade. That's all everyone talks about on a bunch of threads. But they have the same size valves as my 806's and 10cc more intake 5cc on exhaust. Doesn't sound like much to me.

So can you guys confirm that with my set up getting a 224 cam or slightly better along with springs,lifters etc as part of a complete tune up shall bring me very close to or at 400rwhp????

I'm not a big drag guy I'm getting into road racing so around 400rwhp should be perfect I'd like this engine to have good power across the entire power band with a nice old school lope. :)


BTW the bottom end is going to the machine shop for cleaning and what not.

Hamrdown
02-09-2010, 01:44 AM
I wouldn't change the heads unless you plan on getting a fully ported set with a good valve job. In my cam only a4 setup (in case you don't know automatic cars especially those with stall converters dyno much lower at the wheels than manual cars) that I got 380rwhp with a mild cam I had bone stock '98 peremiter bolt heads. Those are considered to be the worst flowing heads that came on our cars. So you should be just fine with your stockers. If you do plan on upgrading the heads then I'd go with PRC 5.3 heads. They flow close to their ported LS6 heads but will give a nice increase in compression due to the smaller combustion chamber. You can get those through texas-speed.com

InsaneDomestics
02-09-2010, 09:20 AM
If I was on a tight budget I'd probably get a Cam, UD Pulley & Lid. Contact Shawn @ VA Speed and he can tell you what you should go with Cam wise.

Aetos
02-09-2010, 10:15 AM
If you wanna go big, the polluter cam from tick has been dynoing in the range of 410-425rwhp(or so) with basic supporting mods(intake, longtubes, etc.)

InsaneDomestics
02-09-2010, 10:21 AM
If you wanna go big, the polluter cam from tick has been dynoing in the range of 410-425rwhp(or so) with basic supporting mods(intake, longtubes, etc.)

Not to Bad

joblo1978
02-09-2010, 11:34 AM
If you wanna go big, the polluter cam from tick has been dynoing in the range of 410-425rwhp(or so) with basic supporting mods(intake, longtubes, etc.)

Polluter....I love that!

Silvia346ci
02-09-2010, 12:57 PM
Is $425 for a set of 243 heads with 33kmiles includes comp 921 dual valve springs heat tanked clean a good deal should I hop on these?

Then throw on those POLUTR 24x cam.

What should I expect now xxx rwhp???

Polished TB
243 heads
24x cam
Custom Long tube headers with cut out's
LS6 intake Mani
On a Decent tune.
Through T56

Aetos
02-09-2010, 01:08 PM
You have to be careful what heads you get if you decide to run a big cam such as the polluter, the needed clearance may not be there. I know with a GOOD pair of heads and a polluter, you can possibly see numbers 450+

Is $425 for a set of 243 heads with 33kmiles includes comp 921 dual valve springs heat tanked clean a good deal should I hop on these?

Then throw on those POLUTR 24x cam.

What should I expect now xxx rwhp???

Polished TB
243 heads
24x cam
Custom Long tube headers with cut out's
LS6 intake Mani
On a Decent tune.
Through T56

zacht
02-09-2010, 01:47 PM
browse around the dyno section, theres tons of good info there on what has worked and what hasnt. you got a s14...its a light car and is going to flat out move with a stock LS1.

first off, do you have the motor in the car? running properly?

and id say if your on a budget a cam kit is probably your best bet. you could probably do one for around 1000 bucks, look for deals for sure! and add as you go, get the bolt ons as you go.

SOMbitch
02-09-2010, 01:58 PM
Is $425 for a set of 243 heads with 33kmiles includes comp 921 dual valve springs heat tanked clean a good deal should I hop on these?

Then throw on those POLUTR 24x cam.

What should I expect now xxx rwhp???

Polished TB
243 heads
24x cam
Custom Long tube headers with cut out's
LS6 intake Mani
On a Decent tune.
Through T56

Yes that is a good deal but have a couple springs pulled and make sure they are within spec. If there are 33k on the springs they are probably worn out.

Decide on heads first then match the cam to the heads. Not only what heads but how much if any they have been milled.

joblo1978
02-09-2010, 02:06 PM
Budget? What's your budget?

Call texas speed and they'll set you up with a H/C package to meet your goals.

If you have an LS6 intake, done all the free mods

A nice lid, ported and polished throttle body, something around TR 224, torquer 2, or magic stick 3, 5.3L ported heads, long tubes with a nice Y, catback, stock lifters, stock rockers, and some titanium pushrods will get you there.

With a conservative tune even.

I'd throw in a ported oil pump for good measure and an LS2 timing chain.

ws6fitz
02-09-2010, 02:54 PM
Yes that is a good deal but have a couple springs pulled and make sure they are within spec. If there are 33k on the springs they are probably worn out.

Decide on heads first then match the cam to the heads. Not only what heads but how much if any they have been milled.

+1

Find out as much as you can about these heads. When changing from stock heads to aftermarket your going to be dealing with Piston To Valve Clearence issues. Just be careful when purchasing a set of used heads.

Silvia346ci
02-09-2010, 04:15 PM
First let me just say you guys are great with very helpful information. :)

Here 's a couple of shots of my progress.

The car is gutted and waiting for the mounting hardware probably in the next couple of month's.

As far as my budget it's moderate but I think I'm heading in the right direction from what I've gathered here. The 243's I'm waiting for the guy to tell me how many miles on the comp springs. I'm gonna go ahead and get the block sent out for it's work prob in a few days.

Polutr 24x 112LSA or Texas Speed 228r 112LSA :confused:
I think I'm just gonna have to flip a coin on this one.

1969mach1
02-09-2010, 05:18 PM
Texas Speed has some great H/C combos that will get you to 400RWHP.
OR add a 150 shot nitrous system for around $600.
The Better way to go would be a set of Trickflow 215's and custom ground cam.
that going to get you closer to the 450RWHP if not over.

Beau@SDPC
02-09-2010, 06:20 PM
The polluter should not be considered in the same city as a 228 cam, not to mention the ball park. A good heads cam combo will fit you well, but you have never really answered what your budget is.

While you have the engine out and getting it refreshed, you can put one of our "budget" cranks with an I beam rod and a mahle 4032 piston (has valve reliefs for a large large cam). Then you would def hit your target goal. We have those in 3.825 (366 ci) or 4.000 (383) out of that engine. Or just go back with a good forged piston (with valve reliefs) and your stock rods and crank. This way, when you want to go big with the cam, you do not have to worry about flycutting or bending valves.

That would be the easiest way to get the power you want while staying under 2k for the entire rotating assy. It is easier to do heads and cam with the vehicle in the car if you want to do that later, but rotating assy is a large task.

Otherwise, im sure that a set of trick flow as casts or cncd and a well designed cam could get you very close to what you want.

Aetos
02-09-2010, 06:55 PM
The polluter should not be considered in the same city as a 228 cam, not to mention the ball park. A good heads cam combo will fit you well, but you have never really answered what your budget is.


I know its not in the same ballpark, hence why I started it with "if you want to go big". He never specifically said what he wanted a small cam, his original thread even stated "should I go with a high lift).

I was just giving him another option to look at, thinking he would hopefully know the difference between small and big cam. :D

Beau@SDPC
02-09-2010, 07:05 PM
Well I was leaving mention to his post on flipping a coin. And high lift should not categorize the polluter. Trying to compare camshafts based on lift or even duration @.050 is not accurate at all. Those 2 cams are on opposite ends of the spectrum really.

Silvia346ci
02-09-2010, 08:18 PM
I think you lost me there guys lol


Ok basically I already agreed to get the 243 heads so now I need a decent cam. Your reffering to the 228r? is that a more aggressive cam than the 24x?

Both companies said with my setup on 243's I should be good as long as I of course get the basics such as LS7 lifters, Hardened rods and the LS6 oil pump for a safe reliable engine.

There's to many vendors selling cam's I can't figure out what to get Thumper, TSP , Polutr etc. They all advertise around the same numbers give or take a few hp and price.

brian_rs/ss
02-09-2010, 09:26 PM
228r is a very streetable cam, it has a great torque curve, good power up top too. with even stock 243 heads you will see very healthy numbers and should be pretty satisfied.

TSP is who i prefer to trust. however i may be biased because i live in texas lol. but they DO hold the world record for fastest stock block ls1...if that means anything.

also you may look into melling high volume oil pump. its much better than a ls6 or even a ported ls6.

so i would say do:
228r(or torquer 2, its a little bigger)
243's(porting depends on your budget)
comp magnum push rods
patriot gold valve springs
melling pump

SOMbitch
02-09-2010, 09:36 PM
I think you lost me there guys lol


Ok basically I already agreed to get the 243 heads so now I need a decent cam. Your reffering to the 228r? is that a more aggressive cam than the 24x?

Both companies said with my setup on 243's I should be good as long as I of course get the basics such as LS7 lifters, Hardened rods and the LS6 oil pump for a safe reliable engine.

There's to many vendors selling cam's I can't figure out what to get Thumper, TSP , Polutr etc. They all advertise around the same numbers give or take a few hp and price.

I started to type out a long response and it got too long. Not being disrespectful but go find the "So you wanna be fast" stickey I think in general and the cam sticky in internal. These will help. Then come back with a budget and goals of what you want and ask ?'s. By goals I mean something like want to run 11's and drive it to school every day or this is a max effort track car etc... this will help us help you with putting together a good combination. I am afraid with all the info you are currently getting you are gonna come up wth a mishmash of under performing parts.....