Drag Racing Tech - Going to try 26" tire insted of 28".




2camaros6702
02-10-2010, 01:34 PM
I am running a 275-60-15 M/T DR right now and it is working good but I want to try a 26" tire and see if it will bring my 60' down any if I can get it to hook. I have a set of 26-11.5-15 M/T ET-Streets that are almost new and want to give them a try but I have a few questions and want your opinions.

1) the car is 60'ing 1.50 right now with a best of 1.47 on the 275-60-15s do you think I will get the 26"s to hook at all?

2) We have an 1/8th mile we run here and the cars best pass is a 6.72 @ 106mph, if it will hook will I see any difference?

3) how much will it change my shift points?


94Z28rag
02-10-2010, 02:23 PM
You need to do the calculations based on tire height, it could slow you down in the end.

BADD SS
02-10-2010, 02:38 PM
With your power level I doubt your 60' issues are from the 28's. You will most likely 60' worse.

And stock internals? You mean bottom end? It says h/c.


Ed Wright
02-10-2010, 03:31 PM
I can just about promise you, unless you just can't keep it off the bumper like it is, you will 60' worse on shorter tires. Taller tires make more difference in traction than wider.

mike c.
02-10-2010, 07:21 PM
I cut a 1.42 60 foot on a 26x11.5x15 M&H Racemaster cheater slick. My power level was 463hp 414tq on my M6,ls1. And we all know the a4 60's better. I Now have a 500+hp 402ci. if you can't get a good 60 foot from a 26'' tire,your suspen needs work.

lemons12
02-10-2010, 08:49 PM
Here is what I have always been told (I know very little about playing with tire sizes and what not)..
A taller tire such as a 28" will 60' worse but let you pull better up top..
A short tire such as a 26" will 60' better but hinder up top.

Reason being is because it doesn't take as long for the 26" to start its rotation but once it does it has to spin more to get you the same distance.. Hope that made sense..

Of course this theory is taking in that you can dead hook on the 26" and the 28".. I always thought you stayed with the smallest tire possible until you couldn't hook anymore and then you moved up.

I am on a 26X10-15 Hoosier slick right now.. I am in the 1.47-1.50 range on motor and have not sprayed it yet, sure I will dead hook even on the spray.. I run 1/8 mile. Race weight is 3500 or so.

AChotrod
02-10-2010, 09:33 PM
The real best way to 60ft is the tallest tire you can fit will the lowest gearing possible for your power level.
Why do you think the SS/SE guys use such huge gears and 30" tires.

Lemons on the spray youll prob need taller tires to keep from shifting into OD.

Unstang
02-10-2010, 11:39 PM
I don't see you picking anything up with the smaller tire.
FWIW, I went 1.51 on a 275-50-15 MT radial, my car had a Vig3600 & h/c, it made 420rwhp.

lemons12
02-11-2010, 12:22 AM
The real best way to 60ft is the tallest tire you can fit will the lowest gearing possible for your power level.
Why do you think the SS/SE guys use such huge gears and 30" tires.

Lemons on the spray youll prob need taller tires to keep from shifting into OD.

I have a street car that I run around with on normal tires so that is out of the question.

Even in the 1/8? I will only be hitting around 105mph or so..

silverz28camaro
02-11-2010, 12:38 AM
I 60' a 1.506 on a mt 255/50-16 tire. 26'. car has 424 hp with a 3600 vig. 3.73 gears

lemons12
02-11-2010, 02:02 AM
I 60' amazing for my power levels I suppose.. I only put down 375... Although on a normal dyno it would be around 400-410, but for its weight and power level I think it does well above average..

I am just wondering if I would benefit with any other tire granted traction with all sizes on hand.

2camaros6702
02-11-2010, 06:26 AM
The real best way to 60ft is the tallest tire you can fit will the lowest gearing possible for your power level.
Why do you think the SS/SE guys use such huge gears and 30" tires.

Lemons on the spray youll prob need taller tires to keep from shifting into OD.

This is the way I thought it worked and I went with 3.73 gears and a 28" tire and now I am wondering if I should have went with 3.90's or 4.11's with the 28" tire. This is the main reason for trying this to see how the car reacts with a little more gear the cheep way.

2camaros6702
02-11-2010, 06:28 AM
With your power level I doubt your 60' issues are from the 28's. You will most likely 60' worse.

And stock internals? You mean bottom end? It says h/c.


Stock bottom end!! Fixed sig!

Ed Wright
02-11-2010, 09:00 AM
So, a 1.42 60' is good?

350" Stock Eliminator cars, foot braking on 9" tires go (often low) 1.30s all the time.

tee-boy
02-11-2010, 09:14 AM
So, a 1.42 60' is good?

350" Stock Eliminator cars, foot braking on 9" tires go (often low) 1.30s all the time.

and how much money does it take to build one of those???

thirdgenbum
02-11-2010, 09:30 AM
lots of guys running hoosier 26x8.5 going 1.2x's in Outlaw8.5. a bunch of them are still running stock suspension too.

the tire has it in it, does your car have the rest of the needed equipment to make it happen though?

tektrans
02-11-2010, 09:48 AM
and how much money does it take to build one of those???

I think the point ER was trying to make was that although stock eliminator cars are very limited, due to rules, in making power they still 60' VERY well in order to get the most out of the cars.
Alot of SE guys run 30x9" tires and I followed their blueprint as far as suspension goes with my own car. My car makes more power than a SE car so I used a slightley wider tire but the same concept applies, IMO, up to around mid 9's (N/A of course).
That concept is to get good weight transfer with little resistance and you do that with a tall, thinner tire (and with alot of other stuff).
I've seen SE cars on a hot day 60 in the mid 1.3's while only turning a low 11 sec 1/4 mile and YOU CAN DO IT TO with simple stock style replacement components and some chassis stiffening (subrames, 6 pt etc.)

OP, I have no doubt you will :barf: after your very 1st track outing with a set of 26"ers

Mark

lemons12
02-11-2010, 02:28 PM
Here is what I have always been told (I know very little about playing with tire sizes and what not)..
A taller tire such as a 28" will 60' worse but let you pull better up top..
A short tire such as a 26" will 60' better but hinder up top.

Reason being is because it doesn't take as long for the 26" to start its rotation but once it does it has to spin more to get you the same distance.. Hope that made sense..

Of course this theory is taking in that you can dead hook on the 26" and the 28".. I always thought you stayed with the smallest tire possible until you couldn't hook anymore and then you moved up.

I am on a 26X10-15 Hoosier slick right now.. I am in the 1.47-1.50 range on motor and have not sprayed it yet, sure I will dead hook even on the spray.. I run 1/8 mile. Race weight is 3500 or so.
Any of the gurus have any input?

AChotrod
02-11-2010, 03:30 PM
The RPM threw the traps is what determines my tires. Rule of thumb is go as tall as possible while not dropping the RPMs to low or shifting into OD crossing the line. Both kill ET.
You want to be at the limiter crossing the traps. Gearing also plays a big part in this.

tee-boy
02-11-2010, 03:44 PM
I'm from the club that says go with more tire than you need (particularly in a bracket race), and match the tire / redline via the appropriate gear.

If you run tire limited class guess you can't go w/ more tire than you need.

I love watching these big tire cars that run in the 10's with open headers. I think to myself "what a waste".

Ed Wright
02-11-2010, 04:23 PM
I'm from the club that says go with more tire than you need (particularly in a bracket race), and match the tire / redline via the appropriate gear.

If you run tire limited class guess you can't go w/ more tire than you need.

I love watching these big tire cars that run in the 10's with open headers. I think to myself "what a waste".

Your first and third comments contradict each other.

tee-boy
02-11-2010, 04:37 PM
Your first and third comments contradict each other.

Yes they do. I was just to lazy to clarify.


Let's say the school of "just a tad more tire than you need".

Someone is argumentative.

tee-boy
02-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Let me also declare this:

Big tires are for 1700 lb dragsters.

87silverbullet
02-11-2010, 05:00 PM
Let me also declare this:

Big tires are for 1700 lb dragsters.

Put the beer down, son.

Ed Wright
02-12-2010, 10:21 AM
Put the beer down, son.

Heck, I thought he was smoking something. Just beer, huh? :D

Usually, when somebody doesn't know a whole lot about drag racing, they would look at a ten second car with big tires and ask themselves "Wonder why they do that?", instead of "what a waste". I remember being in my twenties though, when I thought I had all this stuff figured out. Before I hit forty I realized I would likely never have it all figured out. I'm 66 now, and I KNOW I'll never figure it all out.

I do know ten second Super Stock cars and bracket racers use big tires so they can always hook the same no matter what track prep and starting line temps are like.

I use 10.5 X 30" radials becasue they are faster (on really good, cool tracks the 9" X 30" radials are still faster) than the bigger tires, but on some tracks the guys I race with big tires can still run the same times, when I'm having trouble spinning the tires. Many times I've wished I had mine back halved so I could put some bigger tires under it.

Super Stock (some of those dumb-assed ten second big tire cars) use torque converters that hit the tires a lot harder than what most of you guys use (according to your on line "polls") which makes for much better 60' times, but are much tougher to hook. Trans brakes hit harder so are tougher to hook also. Go to an NHRA race, walk through the Super Stock pit areas and count how many fast cars use your brand torque converter.

tee-boy
02-12-2010, 11:55 AM
Heck, I thought he was smoking something. Just beer, huh? :D

Usually, when somebody doesn't know a whole lot about drag racing, they would look at a ten second car with big tires and ask themselves "Wonder why they do that?", instead of "what a waste". I remember being in my twenties though, when I thought I had all this stuff figured out. Before I hit forty I realized I would likely never have it all figured out. I'm 66 now, and I KNOW I'll never figure it all out.

I do know ten second Super Stock cars and bracket racers use big tires so they can always hook the same no matter what track prep and starting line temps are like.

I use 10.5 X 30" radials becasue they are faster (on really good, cool tracks the 9" X 30" radials are still faster) than the bigger tires, but on some tracks the guys I race with big tires can still run the same times, when I'm having trouble spinning the tires. Many times I've wished I had mine back halved so I could put some bigger tires under it.

Super Stock (some of those dumb-assed ten second big tire cars) use torque converters that hit the tires a lot harder than what most of you guys use (according to your on line "polls") which makes for much better 60' times, but are much tougher to hook. Trans brakes hit harder so are tougher to hook also. Go to an NHRA race, walk through the Super Stock pit areas and count how many fast cars use your brand torque converter.

thanks Ed. I don't remember my 20's as well as you. I've got your personality type pigeonholed.

87silverbullet
02-12-2010, 01:39 PM
thanks Ed. I don't remember my 20's as well as you. I've got your personality type pigeonholed.

But, you're a dodo-bird when it comes to declarations.

Ed Wright
02-12-2010, 01:44 PM
thanks Ed. I don't remember my 20's as well as you. I've got your personality type pigeonholed.

Just how fast an ol' boy are ya? :D

BlackScreaminMachine
02-12-2010, 03:02 PM
Getting away from the previous comments. This is my opinion.....

I have run on a set of 26" tall ET Drags. They were a set borrowed from TheChef. They work awesome compared to different drag radials that I have used previous. IMO and of JL's, it was due to the car race weight(high), a M6 Trans, and the need for the side wall give in the Bias Ply.

The tire work in these parameters well since I was making around 385 rwhp. BUT the car worked so well it needed a drag bar and shocks (since which I have purchased and put on).

The advantage of a 26" tall tire IMO is for street cars that want to go after a number at the track and while though it is not the most optimal set up, people LIKE ME do that. My Street car is def more "racey" then the average street car but I can run the same 4.10 gear and not fear for it being "knocked down" to a different ratio due to th 2" difference. So off the line it will help.

DEPENDING on power level, suspension, race weight, drive line etc etc, tire requirements change and I agree, put the biggest tire the class allows in there and if you CAN get away with a radial, all the better.

So in closing, if people with street cars who want to race but do not want to run a 4.30+ gear ratio or run that ratio and have to run on a 28" tall tire all the time. The 26" Biasplys is a reasonable alternative.

Just remember, all cars are different and all cars may need a different tire. The 26" tall tire does close the safe window where successful runs will be come less and less. On a shitty track your probably going to be blowing the tires off more and thats not even getting into difference in the compounds of Drag Radials, ET Streets, and ET Drags.

lemons12
02-12-2010, 03:27 PM
I'm still wondering what would be ideal for my setup.. Lots of info and wisdom to share, pass some this way! :D

Any help is appreciated, even "you are running the right tire for your combo and needs"! :lol:

mike c.
02-12-2010, 04:24 PM
ed,Yes a 1.42 is good in a street trim m6,3,700lbs car. I can daily drive the car.I can run top end down the highway and get over 20mi per gal with heat,power everything,leather int,,ect.Can the out law's do that.....NO. My car is a street car that runs 10's N/A. My boys car pro style does 1.2's. Should I compare my car to that one....NO Stick around,My new set up this year should net me 1.3's in a street car.

lemons12
02-12-2010, 04:30 PM
ed,Yes a 1.42 is good in a street trim m6,3,700lbs car. I can daily drive the car.I can run top end down the highway and get over 20mi per gal with heat,power everything,leather int,,ect.Can the out law's do that.....NO. My car is a street car that runs 10's N/A. My boys car pro style does 1.2's. Should I compare my car to that one....NO Stick around,My new set up this year should net me 1.3's in a street car.

FWIW, I think that is VERY impressive.. Not too many people at those power levels are cutting those kind of 60' times..

I'm shooting for mid-high 1.4Xs with 375Rwhp but I am a stalled A4 so....

TA1364
02-12-2010, 09:58 PM
Lemons, have you even cut a 1.4x short time?

lemons12
02-12-2010, 11:41 PM
Lemons, have you even cut a 1.4x short time?

Yes... Are you going trying to help or are you fishing?

I have a legitimate question but can't get a response from the gurus.. I would LOVE to hit some low 1.4s... Fastest to date is a 1.49. That was with stock 16s up front not tuned and in a 2000+DA. I'm sure with the current setup 1.46 is very possible. Would be cool to squeeze just a tad more out though, every little bit helps.

N2RACINGLS1's
02-13-2010, 08:30 AM
Well for what it is worth most have seen my thread where I went from 26" ET Drags S to 28" ET Drags S and have yet to be able to get to the 1/4 mile yet due to the weather but the times in my sig were on the 26" ET Drag S.

Best 60 foot so far was 1.38 NA and 1.34 on a 75 shot of dry nitrous! As most of you know my car is a 346 CI Engine at 3,350+ lbs. with 4.10 gears and TH400. The 60 foot times above are footbrake times.

I will say the 1/8 mile testing so far with the 28" ET Drags looks like when I do get to the 1/4 mile track I may be setting new best times.

I was using the 26" ET Drag S on my car in the video in the sig! Take a look at that video and tell me a 26" tire won't hook!! But then again it is one of those slow 10 second cars!

N2

tektrans
02-13-2010, 09:25 AM
Yes... Are you going trying to help or are you fishing?

I have a legitimate question but can't get a response from the gurus.. I would LOVE to hit some low 1.4s... Fastest to date is a 1.49. That was with stock 16s up front not tuned and in a 2000+DA. I'm sure with the current setup 1.46 is very possible. Would be cool to squeeze just a tad more out though, every little bit helps.

I think you've gotten some decent feedback in here from guys to and against it. Guys that have had success with a smaller tire and others that went the bigger tire route and have impressive 60' times.
Not sure what you're looking for :confused:
Time for you to pick a tire and try and make it work. :nod:

tektrans
02-13-2010, 09:27 AM
Best 60 foot so far was 1.38 NA and 1.34 on a 75 shot of dry nitrous! As most of you know my car is a 346 CI Engine at 3,350+ lbs. with 4.10 gears and TH400. The 60 foot times above are footbrake times.

I was using the 26" ET Drag S on my car in the video in the sig! Take a look at that video and tell me a 26" tire won't hook!! But then again it is one of those slow 10 second cars!

N2

Very impressive, especially on that small tire-I'm impressed-Nice Job!! :thumb:

lemons12
02-13-2010, 04:20 PM
I think you've gotten some decent feedback in here from guys to and against it. Guys that have had success with a smaller tire and others that went the bigger tire route and have impressive 60' times.
Not sure what you're looking for :confused:
Time for you to pick a tire and try and make it work. :nod:

I picked one already! :lol:

I see where N2Racing went to a 28" and said it looks like he will be setting a PB in the 1/4. What about the 1/8? That is all I run and care about.

Can anyone explain why a 28" would let you ET better than a 26" if you dead hook on both? I always thought hooking them up you would always ET better (mph less) with a shorter tire and ET worse (mph better) with a taller tire.

I'm just confused I guess! I want the best tire!!!!!!!!!!!! (I know I know.. There is no "best"!)

DrkPhx
02-14-2010, 12:01 AM
I picked one already! :lol:

I see where N2Racing went to a 28" and said it looks like he will be setting a PB in the 1/4. What about the 1/8? That is all I run and care about.

Can anyone explain why a 28" would let you ET better than a 26" if you dead hook on both? I always thought hooking them up you would always ET better (mph less) with a shorter tire and ET worse (mph better) with a taller tire.

I'm just confused I guess! I want the best tire!!!!!!!!!!!! (I know I know.. There is no "best"!)

Borrow some friends different tires and take them to the track and experiment. You never know until you try. I run a 16" DR that is a little over 26" height and they hook good considering my setup. Best ET and 60-ft is in the sig. Average 60-ft is 1.47 on a decent track. Raceweight is 3,560-lbs. I'm sure a 28" would do better, but I still street drive my car quite a bit.

lemons12
02-14-2010, 01:09 AM
Borrow some friends different tires and take them to the track and experiment. You never know until you try. I run a 16" DR that is a little over 26" height and they hook good considering my setup. Best ET and 60-ft is in the sig. Average 60-ft is 1.47 on a decent track. Raceweight is 3,560-lbs. I'm sure a 28" would do better, but I still street drive my car quite a bit.

I'll give some 28s a shot..

Isn't one of the materials better, as in bias ply or whatever for A4s and M6s?

TA1364
02-14-2010, 01:41 AM
If your going to spray off the line just put slicks on it and be done with it.

lemons12
02-14-2010, 01:44 AM
If your going to spray off the line just put slicks on it and be done with it.

Have not decided... Pretty sure that will count it in for the rear.. If I don't blow through the converter it should be a solid 1.3 60'.
I have slicks now.. 26X10X15

N2RACINGLS1's
02-14-2010, 06:41 PM
I picked one already! :lol:

I see where N2Racing went to a 28" and said it looks like he will be setting a PB in the 1/4. What about the 1/8? That is all I run and care about.

Can anyone explain why a 28" would let you ET better than a 26" if you dead hook on both? I always thought hooking them up you would always ET better (mph less) with a shorter tire and ET worse (mph better) with a taller tire.

I'm just confused I guess! I want the best tire!!!!!!!!!!!! (I know I know.. There is no "best"!)


http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1199111-car-video-formula-28-inch-slicks-3.html


Take a look at this thread it may help it has the 1/8 mile info that I learned so far!!

N2

2camaros6702
02-16-2010, 11:09 AM
I have two set's of wheels for out back so I am going to put the 26"s on one set and bring the 26" and 28" tires to the track and see what the difference will be. Mounting the 26"s this weekend so I may have some times after Saturday night. I will post them up if so. And thanks for all the input.