Holley LS Fest - 2010 LS Fest Drag Racing Classes/ Rules Questions

If you have questions please post them here.

Corvette Shootout rules say .500 sportsman tree. Is that right or is it .500 Pro Tree?

Two class entry possible? specifically, Index and Corvette Shootout

There seems to be some conflict and some issues with the Corvette Shootout tire sizes.

First a late model Corvette will likely be running a 16" wheel and the 28" can be marked 11.5.
Next the 275 for a Corvette is only available in 17" wheel which is 26" tall and not right for a class with this potential.
Lastly the paragraph says 345mm on the sidewall when it previously said 275.

TIRES: – REAR - Rear: a True 28.0” x 10.5 wide slick (no “W” tires permitted) or DOT 275 drag radial tire. Actual measured tread of tire is limited to 10.75 inches. Actual measured tread of all racing slick-type tire is limited to 10.75 inches. For D.O.T. radial tires, maximum sidewall designation permitted is 345mm. Tire width will be measured by a “go-no go” gauge. Tire width will be measured after conclusion of run at scale area. Tire shaving is prohibited. Any size wheel and Bead-locks permitted.

I am not able to run a 315 tire on a 17" wheel?

Thank you for posting up your questions and comments. We'll see what else bubbles up and then pass on the list to the rules committee.

Good catch. The 275 and 345 mm tire thing was a misprint. Take a look at the rules next week and they should be updated. Due to Vette's coming with up to 345mm , that will be the limit.

John:

My question is in regards to Outlaw Drag Radial. Why are you not allowing the Billet Block's? If its an Outlaw class I don't see why it should be banned. Even in our 275 Radial class in PSCA the block is legal and those guys are running 7.90's. This class should be a 7.50ish class all day. You can't expect me to run my Billet Block F2 combo in the Unlimited class against full tube chassis cars that weigh 2700lbs??? My car is being built for 275/315 DR stock suspension classes in PSCA and WCHRA. Depending on the class I run I have to weigh 3200 to 3450lbs. Just don't understand the logic here... I do with the LSX shootout because its a GM Performance sponsored event.

Also for TT5/275 whats the deal with the "Stock unaltered frame rails required in front sub frame" rule? For Gen 1 Camaro's, Nova's, Chevelle's most classes allow you to use an Alston, AJE, Smith Bros, etc... type factory front clip. I think this rule is ridiculous in the LSX shootout and it looks the TT5/275 rules for the LS Fest are a carbon copy. What does it matter if you replace the factory front clip on a Gen 1 car. I'm doing on my 69for safety and function. Just a senseless rule.

Thanks for posting your questions here Eric. As I mentioned in our earlier email convo, the comments and questions will go in front of the rules committee which is comprised of 7-9 folks ((I can't remember).

Thanks for posting your questions here Eric. As I mentioned in our earlier email convo, the comments and questions will go in front of the rules committee which is comprised of 7-9 folks ((I can't remember).

Appreciate the consideration John and would love the chance to plead my case and discuss my car with the rules committee... or you and I can chat on the phone. Let me know when you have time to talk. Thanks.

Am I reading the TT5 rules correctly - F1R blowers are banned from this class also. Now I know something is amiss! TT5 is pretty much a run what ya brung class everywhere because of the tire limitations! You can run any amount of "spray" or boost on your listed blowers, but no F1R which was the street blower 2 years ago.

Looks Like I'm takin a pass on this event!

JR

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv85/itsjr_photos/Burnout1.jpg

Just a question is the unlimited class open to all pwr adders ?. I thought i saw N20 cars ?. Just wondering ???.

Looks like I will be running true street and outlaw drag radial on a 275 tire!:D

Just a question is the unlimited class open to all pwr adders ?. I thought i saw N20 cars ?. Just wondering ???.

Good question too.

Good question too.


Thanks for the reply.......but i guess you dont know either ?. How would we find out ?

Tom

I'm on the rules committee and we'll all review the questions, comments and suggestions together. Let's give this until 3.15.10 and see what pops up.

Why is a two step prohibetedin ts and index?

anybody out there?

Pro Stock John - Please see if you can find out why the Holley event list of APPROVED blowers DOES NOT MATCH the NMCA LSX Real Street class list of blowers??? I would think that some consistency should be the order of the day so Racers can run these events without re-inventing the wheel at each event. I am working with ProCharger to see if I can match what the "Rules People" want as they would like to see my Vette compete in these events, and its becoming a bit rediculous!!

JR

Thanks for the questions guys, we'll review next week and circle back. We are not going to go back and forth on the forum since the rules committee has 7-8 folks and not all of them actively post on boards.

John, any updates on the rules?

Eric I am going to email the questions, comments and suggestion around to the rules committee so I imagine that we'll have some feedback later this week.

UPDATE--

The drag racing rules committee has had a chance to review the questions and suggestions and changes and corrections will be posted shortly.

Eric, billet blocks will not be allowed in Outlaw Radial for various reasons. If you are interested in racing this class or others like it I would suggest that you migrate over to other allowed blocks.

Two steps should be allowed in the index and bracket classes so I expect that they'll show up as allowed when the rules are revised.

Tires: Revisions will be made to reflect comments and further research made by members of the rules committee.

John, (JR Cruzin), whatever the rules are for allowed blowers will stand, no changes are expected. The F1R is a 7-second capable blower and so it is now lumped in equally with other blowers that would not have the same capability to make so much power. I'd say if you see classes that you are interested in running that allow the F1C or F1A, I'd talk to Dan Bills and look into getting another blower... I know some folks who routinely run two different blowers or turbos to run different classes.

I don't know when the revisions and corrections will be posted, maybe Robin or Monte knows.

Thanks,

John Ryan

Guys - I just want to let you know that an F1R Blower in a 3600+ pound IRS Corvette is NOT even close to a 7 second car. My car is the quickest ProCharged Street Legal IRS C5 around and runs 9.20's at 18lbs of boost with the best tuner in the country. I may squeeze this car into the mid to high 8's this year with some luck. ProCharger came through and offered me any qualifying blower I need in exchange for my F1R. I met with Dan Bills today and we decided to LEAVE MY SETUP AS IS!! which obviously means I will not be running any of your "heads up" classes.

So I am not going to run in your index events where I have to run against 10 to 13 second cars on a sportsman or .500 pro tree (boring). It is not the type of racing I will spend $1,000 to $1,500 any more to race in. The indexes in my area are 9.50 cars run 9.50 cars (and so on) heads up on a .400 pro tree so its run what you brung. I finished #6 in points in my IMSM class against 28 cars of all types last year without a transbrake which I WILL HAVE this year.

I will run Open Comp at NMCA events if I go to any which at this time looks doubtful

JR

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv85/itsjr_photos/Burnout1.jpg

John,

Thanks for the update and I'm not changing my set up. The similar Outlaw Radial class out here allows me to run my block and its too late to change anyways. I guess I can run "Unlimited" since there are not restrictions there. We'll see if my car is ready by then but I'm not driving 2,000 miles or whatever it is unless I can be competitive. Time will tell. Thanks.

UPDATE--

The drag racing rules committee has had a chance to review the questions and suggestions and changes and corrections will be posted shortly.

Eric, billet blocks will not be allowed in Outlaw Radial for various reasons. If you are interested in racing this class or others like it I would suggest that you migrate over to other allowed blocks.

Thanks,

John Ryan

Thanks guys.

JR, as you may or may not know, I'm a huge fan of your car ever since I saw it up at Alston getting a roll cage. For a class like the 275/28x10.5 deal, there are folks on the rules committee who have for more experience making all the different combinations equally competitive. I think you probably already know given your relationship with Dan that the F1R is capable of running 7's and very low 8's. When folks look at a potential combo, they look not at what a car is doing but also what that combo would do in the hands of someone competing in a series. As as you know the F1R is rated by ProCharger to make up to 1300 hp.

Have fun this summer guys!

John

John - With all due respect Dan and I have been running this setup since 2004 and show me "anyone" in the country running an IRS, stock configured Vette running anywhere close to the sevens. Doug at East Coast Supercharging with a PG Vette basically a stripped down roadster is pobably the quickest with $3,000 of spindles so he can run 15" wheels still only runs 8.60's. Did you get that $3,000 for spindles, $6,000 for a glide setup, oh yeah and $2,000 for nonpower rack and pinion so he can run 8.60's. My C5 with an F1R, C5R 427, a 4L60E, and a C6 Z06 rearend runs 9.20's and maybe high 8's with a "brake". I dyno 850 RWHP which is about 1,000 motor and that's all we can get out of it. Sure put a "skinny" guy in the car and some racing seats and maybe this car would run 8.50's with a brake but maybe not, its still an IRS car. Any way I can't wait to see an IRS street configured Vette run 8.00's

Buy 4 Now

JR

The argument you'll encounter is that that engine plus that blower, set up for max performance, would be able to run at least 8.40's at a lower raceweight. True you probably don't have your car pulleyed for huge power but the F1R I believe has gone high sevens in the Xtreme Street NMCA class, which I think means the raceweight was probably over 3300... Just an example.

I don't like it from a series perspective, I know you have streetable car that you won't gut and ruin to run 8.20's but it's ultimately hard to write rules that cover both.

PSJ - I still don't understand why they just don't make the F1R weight 3550+ and not worry about it, Plus you did not address the difference in the "approved" blower list between NMCA & Holly, I still think they should match, thats why Dan Bills and I felt it was not worth having 3 blowers, 1 for NMCA Real Street ( 1 race, D1R), 1 for Holly (1 race P1SC), and 1 for 9 sec. HEADS UP index racing with a 3700 pound car (F1R)!!! I know your hands are "tied". NHRA Unleashed has the right idea, if they expand to more venues I'm sure there will be a BIG following!!!

JR

I did suggest letting the F1R cars run heavy, but it did not pass committee.

PSJ - Thanks for trying. I know your heart is in the right place. I am NOT trying to get an edge. On the contrary, Late Modle Vettes (I'm A Vette Guy) are at a hugh disadvantage over Fox Bodys and Cammaro's because of brakes size (can't run 15" wheels), weight, and the IRS. YOU know I have been racing my C5 in the general non-vette arenas as "street legal" for 10 years and have tried to be competitive with the great help of Dan Bills of Finish Line Performance, and Chuck Johnson of Finish Line Transmission, and Rodney (Rear Ends) of RPM Transmissions, without those guys my C5 would be religated to racing in bracket stuff in the 10 and 11 second levels. The spectators just love it when a C5 goes out and jumps all over a rompin stompin wheel stander.

JR

How in the world can they allow XI vortechs and not F1Rs? That makes 0 sense, as the XI is at LEAST equal to a F1R

How in the world can they allow XI vortechs and not F1Rs? That makes 0 sense, as the XI is at LEAST equal to a F1R

From I have been reading the Xi may be a little better if anything. :suspiciou

From I have been reading the Xi may be a little better if anything. :suspiciou

This guys a goon, but truth fo real

This guys a goon, but truth fo real

So use the Xi stupid. :confused:

Damn, you guys agree on something? Holy Shit!

Do you have to pre-register or can you just show up and run?

You can just show up and run if you like.

John,
What would a 346(stock cube ls1) car need to weigh in the all motor class?

Dave

John,
What would a 346(stock cube ls1) car need to weigh in the all motor class?

Dave

The base weight of 3000lbs is for 370ci and below. There is no break for engines smaller than a 370. You then add or subtract weight depending on your specific setup. ie: 3000lb for 346ci, -100 lbs for stock style intake, +125 for manual trans = 3025lb base weight.

Thanks for the clarification.
Just thought being a heads up 8.1 lb/cube class(3000/370) the original displacement ls1 could run at 2800. oh well.....

John any word on the tire situation i pointed out for Corvette class?

John, any updates on the payouts too??? Thanks.

Holley is pulling together the payout info, should be out at some point. Whatcha bringing?

Holley is pulling together the payout info, should be out at some point. Whatcha bringing?

Don't know yet. It depends on what gets done between now and August. I might bring something for the Unlimited class since the rules won't allow me anywhere else. :burn:

i sure hope to have my truck done by then.....any info on rules for trucks??

For trucks, you'd need to follow the rules for the specific class you would run, which one were you thinking?

well im not sure witch one i fall into...gona run n/a or maybe nos but with stock suspension..tracktion bars would still be considers as running stock suspension right??

I want to run all the different events such as drag racing, solo. and the 0-60-0. Will we be able to change tires for each event. For example drag radials for the strip ,and street radials for the solo event.

Get the ALL-MOTOR weights in line with everyone elses and we will be there...

scot

Get the ALL-MOTOR weights in line with everyone elses and we will be there...

scot

I agree...

The again if Holley dosn't come around there might not be a Holley LS Fest....

scot

All-Motor weights won't change the committee passed them already. Please support the event and honestly, we can fix things next time around because Holley wants everyone to come out and have a good time racing and spectating.

Please support the event and honestly, we can fix things next time around

How can you say that, You knew there was a problem with the rules when you adapted them from the shoot out for this event. So why not fix them for the event ? Just like I stated in the LSX shootout thread "We as racers don't need the Holley Fest, The Holley Fest needs us racers. Just so happens theres a local N/A race the same dates as the Fest, and we don't have to put 400lbs in the car, or drive 12 hours. Were do you think we are going to go ?

scot

i agree there were alot of rules that werent looked at very well. I know this is a very minor one but please tell me why two steps are not allowed in true street or index? please let me know if this rule has been changed!

if 28/10s are allowed in the vette class, I will be there..

i agree there were alot of rules that werent looked at very well. I know this is a very minor one but please tell me why two steps are not allowed in true street or index? please let me know if this rule has been changed!

You can use a 2 step in T/S and Index, that was discussed and agreed on last month.

You can use a 2 step in T/S and Index, that was discussed and agreed on last month.

Ok cool, I've been hung up on that since the rules came out. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

if 28/10s are allowed in the vette class, I will be there..

Pack your bags cause if you reread the rear tire section, I think you are golden if you are talking slick
http://www.holley.com/data/Pages/LSFest/Dragrules_Corvette_Shootout.pdf

On the tire note, John, I don't think I ever got an answer on the 295/50/16 drag radial for the Corvette class which is illegal by the 275 notation in the rules but legal by the 345 notation on DOT radial and lastly the same size as the 28/10.5 slick that is legal.

I'll check on that this week.

Wow that weight for the 2010 cars is really heavy! I had to look at that thing twice! LOL How about a 500# drop for n/a 2010s!

Rules are set, no changes til after the race.

John, From the looks of it, everybody is telling me, I am not going to be allowed to run drag week, so, it looks like the ole vert is back in the ls fest hunt.


DONT WORRY, i wont be bitching about weight in classes or crying about what blowers are legal:punch::engarde: ..lol
the vert was 3440 in milan and wont be any lighter by this event..lol

here are the questions

my 28-10-17 is legal in both index and corvette classes, CORRECT?
we can ru in both classes, correct?
there is going to be a 10.0 index class, correct?

and last, is there any idea of how far apart the vette class and the index class will be, so as I can do a jet change? or am I going to have to run the big pills for the index class and just peddle it down as to not go to fast?

I am sure this is all somewhere, but i have pocked around, and not found it, and figure it is just easier to ask you..

We will be there if we survive the NHRA Unleashed in Aug. in Indy.

PSJ, can transbrakes and two-steps be used in both the index and bracket classes or just the index classes?

the 275 radial class my car is a 99% legal minus the brake lights..... will this be ok befor i make the long trip

You can use a 2 step in T/S and Index, that was discussed and agreed on last month.

Sounds good John. I just registered!

the 275 radial class my car is a 99% legal minus the brake lights..... will this be ok befor i make the long trip

No, thats so easy, just fix it

No, thats so easy, just fix it

I am picturing one of those horn buttons duct taped to the face of the brake pedal with a couple wire ties.:headbang:

vw pressure switch in a port somewhere for $10 will do it

Im wanting to run the true street class, now i know i wont be the fastest of course, but i think i would have a good chance at being competitive to get the 11.0 average win....only 2 questions

1. does reaction time matter for the averages, or only if it comes down to a tie?

2. just a street car here, drive it everywhere....no cage, so will they let me run 11.0 or kick me out when someone complains? just dont want to waste money

Im wanting to run the true street class, now i know i wont be the fastest of course, but i think i would have a good chance at being competitive to get the 11.0 average win....only 2 questions

1. does reaction time matter for the averages, or only if it comes down to a tie?

2. just a street car here, drive it everywhere....no cage, so will they let me run 11.0 or kick me out when someone complains? just dont want to waste money

Go to the drag race section and you will see a sticky at the top of the page about what all you need to be NHRA legal as far as safety equipment goes. In true street reaction time does not factor into your e.t.

Im wanting to run the true street class, now i know i wont be the fastest of course, but i think i would have a good chance at being competitive to get the 11.0 average win....only 2 questions

1. does reaction time matter for the averages, or only if it comes down to a tie?

2. just a street car here, drive it everywhere....no cage, so will they let me run 11.0 or kick me out when someone complains? just dont want to waste money

if you run 11.0 you will probaly have to have a roll bar.

Curious, my friend's 2001 Camaro has below lists:>>>
6.0l rebuilt stock(LQ4 iron cast block)
317 heads
big cam
Ls6 intake
4l80E w/3600?? torque convertor. I not sure what number of convertor his Camaro has.
6 pts roll cages

Can he attend to drag race in true street and bracket/index classes? We wonder, the LQ4 is not relate to LSX. Correct? We can't find information of the LS Drag Race classes rules here.

Sorry for stupid question. We may attend there this weekend.
Jeff

Can he attend to drag race in true street and bracket/index classes? We wonder, the LQ4 is not relate to LSX. Correct? We can't find information of the LS Drag Race classes rules here.

The LQ4 is in the LS family of engines. The LS name has been attached to all Gen3 & Gen4 GM small blocks.

Is there any class other than unlimited that I can run in?

GT55 Turbo street car... I can drive the thing back to Ohio from KY. full interior, Air to water, Exhaust has a muffler and exits behind the driver under the car.

I have an 88mm wheel I can slap in but the housing is still way bigger than the rules allow.

I'd hate to waste a ton of money driving down there just to get schooled by the big boys in unlimited.