Advanced Engineering Tech - FAST intake...

I put this here because most people will always say "bigger is better" and that is not the case as we all know on many occasions.

I am in the process of upgrading to a FAST intake/TB. My current setup is..

226/228 .588.588 114
317 heads ported/mile.. I am going to be buying a better set of heads.. I will be getting something equal to AFRs or the like.
Kooks long tubes/ORY/cutout/magnaflow
March under drive pulley
SLP 160* stat
GM 3.73 gear
PTC4000 2.4str
Full weight

Track times...
Consistent 7.3s@92mph 1.50-1.52 short times... DA 2000+.. Had some traction problems but will be getting that worked out soon.

I'm wondering if a ported 90/90 will suffice or if I should go ahead and get a 102... Money really isn't a concern. I have choices from regular 90/90 all the way to the 102.. With ported 92/92 etc etc being in between.
As you can see by the track times my car has a ton of low-mid range grunt and dies off up top. I'm trying to balance it so I don't lose anything down low/mid range and pick me up a nice bit on the back end of the 1/8.
I'm shooting for 7.0s@94 or so once I get the intake/retune and suspension dialed in.

Any opinions are appreciated... And please don't just put 102mm, I am looking for an educated answer. Meaning you would have a reason as to why I should go with that.
Thanks! :D

stock fast 90mm is good for a 7.0s@94 . what is your compression,rear tire size,
rear tires?

stock fast 90mm is good for a 7.0s@94 . what is your compression,rear tire size,
rear tires?

Yea, a 90mm should get me there... My last one had a hand ported 90/90 on it and it was running 7.2s @ 96mph (spinning w/ 1.65 short times, stock suspension).
I am just wondering which one would give me the best performance gain. Of course the 102mm is going to allow more air flow but I don't know if it will give me the best gain all the way across the power curve, better ET.

I honestly don't know the CR. The heads were on the car when I bought them. I will probably have an 11:1 or close when I get the new heads.
26X10X15 Hoosiers..

I plan on it taking me into 6.8ish territory... Keep in mind though, my DA I get is not the best. :(

Most people jump to the biggest they can get their hands on.. I am thinking a ported 92mm will be the best but just wanted other opinions... Tossing ides around. :)

I would get the 102mm intake and just run a 92mm throttle body on it. You wont flow enough air to require a 102mm TB.

Here is what people just cant wrap their minds around. The size of the throttle body could be 300mm and it wouldn't affect full throttle power. The runner leading to the cylinder is what determines "too big or too small". NOT the throttle body!!! The runners make power with differing length and taper, etc to change flow and velocity.

The throttle body is simply a restriction to the eight runners. If your engine only needs a 92mm, just run a 92mm on the 102mm.

I'm running a 90mm DBW on my LSXR 102mm

I would get the 102mm intake and just run a 92mm throttle body on it. You wont flow enough air to require a 102mm TB.

Here is what people just cant wrap their minds around. The size of the throttle body could be 300mm and it wouldn't affect full throttle power. The runner leading to the cylinder is what determines "too big or too small". NOT the throttle body!!! The runners make power with differing length and taper, etc to change flow and velocity.

The throttle body is simply a restriction to the eight runners. If your engine only needs a 92mm, just run a 92mm on the 102mm.

I'm running a 90mm DBW on my LSXR 102mm

Why would I spend the extra dough on the 102mm if it isn't going to flow that much anyway? Any reason not to go 92/92?

If I understand you correctly. My power is not going to change whether I have a 92mm or a 102mm intake... As well as TB...?

Hope I understood that correctly. :)

Your still not getting it. The throttle body size doesn't make power, the runners do. The only time you make more power with the throttle body size is when it cant flow enough air to feed ALL the individual runners.

Think of it this way, all 8 cylinders are asking for air, if the throttle body can not flow enough to feed all eight, THEN a bigger throttle body will make more power. Think 75mm TB, too small for 500hp.

Now for runners, think individual runner intake (super expensive). The power they make and where is determined by the taper and length of the stacks you put on them. So there is and IR setup inside the intake, longer = torquier but loose power at high RPM... shorter = high RPM power and loss of torque down low. This is what determines too big or too small.

If you can get away with running a 90mm TB, go for it! Just get the 102mm intake, you'll have room to upgrade later and have the latest technology and runners now!

Your still not getting it. The throttle body size doesn't make power, the runners do. The only time you make more power with the throttle body size is when it cant flow enough air to feed ALL the individual runners.

Think of it this way, all 8 cylinders are asking for air, if the throttle body can not flow enough to feed all eight, THEN a bigger throttle body will make more power. Think 75mm TB, too small for 500hp.

Now for runners, think individual runner intake (super expensive). The power they make and where is determined by the taper and length of the stacks you put on them. So there is and IR setup inside the intake, longer = torquier but loose power at high RPM... shorter = high RPM power and loss of torque down low. This is what determines too big or too small.

If you can get away with running a 90mm TB, go for it! Just get the 102mm intake, you'll have room to upgrade later and have the latest technology and runners now!

Gotcha! :D Thanks for breaking that down. That makes a lot more sense now! That alone gives me reason to make my final decision! :D EXACTLY what I was looking for. Unless someone has another side, I will be going 102/92.

Another question... If I do go 102/92 should I upgrade the MAF and lid as well or just leave them? I would like to squeeze every bit I can out of it!

Its the exact same theory there too. The runners ask for air, the throttle body supplys it. If the throttle body is large enough, but the MAF now "may be" the restriction for supplying air to the throttle body....so it can supply the runners.

With that said. Everyone gains power going to the FAST, even with the stock MAF, you can swap the MAF/Lid down the road if you want or do it all at once. Im running a stock MAF, but my system uses the 85mm MAF. Ive tested a 500hp 6.0L and going from an 85mm MAF to a 100+MM MAF gained a solid 10hp. I dont think it would do the same for you. If you can pick up an 85mm MAF for cheap do it. Tuning for a new MAF is simple as pie if you have tuning software and a wideband.

you can buy a fast 90 for around $500.00, save your money for something
that will make your car faster/quicker. i hate these 1 part wonder builds LOL.

Its the exact same theory there too. The runners ask for air, the throttle body supplys it. If the throttle body is large enough, but the MAF now "may be" the restriction for supplying air to the throttle body....so it can supply the runners.

With that said. Everyone gains power going to the FAST, even with the stock MAF, you can swap the MAF/Lid down the road if you want or do it all at once. Im running a stock MAF, but my system uses the 85mm MAF. Ive tested a 500hp 6.0L and going from an 85mm MAF to a 100+MM MAF gained a solid 10hp. I dont think it would do the same for you. If you can pick up an 85mm MAF for cheap do it. Tuning for a new MAF is simple as pie if you have tuning software and a wideband.
I will probably just go ahead and do a MAF and lid at the same time as well, no reason not to. Thanks a ton man, been very helpful! :D

you can buy a fast 90 for around $500.00, save your money for something
that will make your car faster/quicker. i hate these i part wonder builds LOL.

What is going to make it faster/quicker for the money?
I'm not worried about the money part. The next purchase will be a nice set of heads, the set I have is getting the job done for now just fine. A 102/92 should give me a solid 20-25Rwhp increase.

you can buy a fast 90 for around $500.00, save your money for something
that will make your car faster/quicker. i hate these i part wonder builds LOL.

you can't have a badass setup by just buying the parts that make the most hp (ex. heads/cam) You have to buy the simple shit as well to make it complete. Every one part has its place, and you're going to want to make sure that part is the right one/worth the money.

you can't have a badass setup by just buying the parts that make the most hp (ex. heads/cam) You have to buy the simple shit as well to make it complete. Every one part has its place, and you're going to want to make sure that part is the right one/worth the money.

And exactly what I am doing! :nod:

I can't just throw a setup together and hope for 6s in my kind of DA with a small cam. I am lucky to see a DA of 1500+, I am going to have to actually think about the setup. My goal is 6.8 in the 1/8..
Thankfully sweets10 explained that perfectly to me! :D And that is why I put it here instead of another section, I wanted a reason, not just "do 102 mm because it is big.

A few other options for you are the Edelbrock proflo XT (tall and you will have to cut your cowl) but if power is your goal and you have the money, look at the Harrop Hurricane (8 individual throttle bodies and insane power gains across the whole rpm range)

I have never had my car on a dyno, been all street tuned, I went with the proflo XT and the butt dyno could tell a big gain over the LS6 intake from mid rpm all the way up past 7,000rpms. But I did have to cut a hole in the GTO hood to clear the intake.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/mark21742/SU1HMDAxMDQuanBn.jpghttp://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/mark21742/SU1HMDAwODQuanBn-1.jpg

I was thinking about a sheet metal or the like.. What kind of money do you have in that?

How much would I have to cut an OEM ws6 hood? (if you know)

Summit Racing price matched and I got the intake for $365. You'll also need aftermarket fuel rails.

From what I understand on the F-bodies you run into a problem hitting the cowl, not the hood. I've been "told" that you need to lose or relocate the passenger side wiper. Here is a pick with just the hole and hood closed to give you a better idea of how it sits in the GTO

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/mark21742/SU1HMDAxMjguanBn.jpg

Summit Racing price matched and I got the intake for $365. You'll also need aftermarket fuel rails.

From what I understand on the F-bodies you run into a problem hitting the cowl, not the hood. I've been "told" that you need to lose or relocate the passenger side wiper. Here is a pick with just the hole and hood closed to give you a better idea of how it sits in the GTO

I have fuel rails and I don't have wipers. :)

I might look into that.. Thanks

Has anyone ever tried to shorten the runners on a fast intake. Seems like you could get some better top end out of it. I would rather someone else try it first and see the results before I risked making my own worse than it already is.

Has anyone ever tried to shorten the runners on a fast intake. Seems like you could get some better top end out of it. I would rather someone else try it first and see the results before I risked making my own worse than it already is.

:jest:!

If you're going with the 102mm manifold, why go with a 90mm TB? I understand it's not needed for your setup, but is there a huge price difference or something?

Oh... and I can't stand giant fucking pictures. I had to scroll side to side this whole thread... almost gave up on it lol.

If you're going with the 102mm manifold, why go with a 90mm TB? I understand it's not needed for your setup, but is there a huge price difference or something?

Oh... and I can't stand giant fucking pictures. I had to scroll side to side this whole thread... almost gave up on it lol.

Your screen is small! They fit on mine! :nod:

I actually think I'm going to go with a mamofied 92mm.. I effed up and bought some FAST rails and then found out the next day they wouldn't work, go figure. :eyes:

I could sell them easily but I just don't feel like going through the hassle.

I can get a used FAST 92/92 for cheap... And letting Tony port them it will outflow the stock 102 easily..

but a mamo'd 102 will out flow the ported 92 all day :)

but a mamo'd 102 will out flow the ported 92 all day :)

Ahhh... Few Rwhp... Nothing to cry over, not for the money that is for sure.

I'm not building a max effort car. 15Rwhp, I would care about... Especially for 3-400$ or so.. But this intake will work fine + some with my setup. They will go perfect with a set of mamofied AFRs.. :nod:

Ahhh... Few Rwhp... Nothing to cry over, not for the money that is for sure.

I'm not building a max effort car. 15Rwhp, I would care about... Especially for 3-400$ or so.. But this intake will work fine + some with my setup. They will go perfect with a set of mamofied AFRs.. :nod:

I'm kinda confused here... money is not an issue, correct? I would assume not because anything touched by Mr. Mamo isn't very cheap. Are these parts new or used?

Ahhh... Few Rwhp... Nothing to cry over, not for the money that is for sure.

I'm not building a max effort car. 15Rwhp, I would care about... Especially for 3-400$ or so.. But this intake will work fine + some with my setup. They will go perfect with a set of mamofied AFRs.. :nod:

15rwhp for 300-400 shit sign me up:drive:

Sorry about the pic size! Lol I took them on my phone, uploaded them on my phone, and posted on here with my phone...I have no clue what size they are on a pc.

I'm kinda confused here... money is not an issue, correct? I would assume not because anything touched by Mr. Mamo isn't very cheap. Are these parts new or used?
If I went 102 I was going to buy all new, I have already talked to Tony about the pricing on that.
Since I decided to just do a mamofied 92 I'm going to buy used and let him do his work on it.

Money really isn't an issue with it, but it is always nice to save a few bucks. I honestly don't think I need the 102. It will only be a few RWHP difference and I don't think I will need that right now.

If I get the mamofied 92 setup and don't like it.. I can always sell for a very very small loss.. People always are wanting Tonys stuff.

Now for runners, think individual runner intake (super expensive). The power they make and where is determined by the taper and length of the stacks you put on them. So there is and IR setup inside the intake, longer = torquier but loose power at high RPM... shorter = high RPM power and loss of torque down low. This is what determines too big or too small.

What is the diffrence in the runners on a FAST 92 to 102? I know the intakes are designed diffrently, any knowledge on the runners between the 2?

What is the diffrence in the runners on a FAST 92 to 102? I know the intakes are designed diffrently, any knowledge on the runners between the 2?

Was wondering the same thing. Anyone?

Isn't that the runners on the 92 are not replaceable and the runners on the 102 are? That's what I was told not positive though, I have a 102 and know you can change them, but have never seen a 92 off the car in my hands

damn thats a huge fucking intake

Lastests posts Ive been reading by Tony is that the new 102 is better than the older FAST models because the runners have been designed differently and apparently are running a lot better on these LSx engine now. He was commenting how they dont need much work at all and its mostly in the openings, etc where he works them because the runners themselves have good shape out the box. Im sure if you searched, the thread would come up with his talking about new 102mm FAST, I think in the intake comparison thread. Thats why people are switching, a little more power across the board is seen on a decent sized motor (408/416 or at least a 346 with H/C/Bolt0ns).

I was curious too because I thought when is it going to end?!?! When is bigger going to NOT be better because there has to be a cutoff and I thought from 76 to 102mm, thats a big leap on a 346 but I guess if its built up enough, you will see the gains and not just up top.

Lastests posts Ive been reading by Tony is that the new 102 is better than the older FAST models because the runners have been designed differently and apparently are running a lot better on these LSx engine now. He was commenting how they dont need much work at all and its mostly in the openings, etc where he works them because the runners themselves have good shape out the box. Im sure if you searched, the thread would come up with his talking about new 102mm FAST, I think in the intake comparison thread. Thats why people are switching, a little more power across the board is seen on a decent sized motor (408/416 or at least a 346 with H/C/Bolt0ns).

I was curious too because I thought when is it going to end?!?! When is bigger going to NOT be better because there has to be a cutoff and I thought from 76 to 102mm, thats a big leap on a 346 but I guess if its built up enough, you will see the gains and not just up top.

I will look into that thread.

Bought a 95mm PTM TB the other day. Saving a few more pennies and going to try to find a 92mm and get Tony to work his magic. If I come across a good deal on a 102mm I might just snatch it, but then I have to sell my rails. :(

Isn't the 102mm FAST harder to tune for on a 346 ? Will it effect low rpm driving ? Anyone know ?

Isn't the 102mm FAST harder to tune for on a 346 ? Will it effect low rpm driving ? Anyone know ?
the 102 TB is a bit difficult from what ive read. however, between the intakes themselves, the 102 is designed a little different, but it was designed to replace all subsequent FAST intakes. its really not very different than the 90/92 etc. just the way the runners are designed to be replaced and "optamized" from the factory.

other than that, a fast 102 will work fine on a stock 346 engine.

I am not really concerned with the tuning side, my tuner is more than capable.

With that said.. I decided to go ported102 (already on).. And just ordered my 92 FAST TB..

I am not really concerned with the tuning side, my tuner is more than capable.

With that said.. I decided to go ported102 (already on).. And just ordered my 92 FAST TB..

Please update us with numbers / SOTP feel. Did you do a vengeance racing ported FAST 102 ? They have them for 999 shipped I believe. I'm buying one when funds allow.

why not use a vic. jr with a 4150 tb?

a 90/90 or even a ported/polished TB on a LS6 intake will handle what you're into.

Alot of people will say it's not enough, but an LS6 is a great intake on stock cube and even up to 377, LOOK AT YOUR CAM, it's low to mid range, it's not a peak 7k rpm cam, it's more so in the 2500-5500 range, you won't need the flow of the larger intake, stick to a smaller 215 to 225 runner on the heads and you'll be fine, take a look at the trick flow as cast 220 cc or the 215's... they're produceing some good numbers.

I'm planning to run a 228r cam, TEA LS6 stage 2 heads, ls6 intake, kooks headers, borla cat back, circle-d pro-I 32-3400 stall, I currently have a Jantzer TB that is forsale, if it doesn't sell I'm going to use it, if it does I'm going with a Shanner S2 TB... similar setups and even exact set ups are putting down from 425-460 rwhp.

I've done alot or research on this set up, still working on my foundation; converter & 9" are installed, heads are here, just have to scrape the money up for the cam/headers/gaskets/small parts.