tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

so i'm new to the ls1, and having a little trouble getting used to the acceleration levels of such an engine (i previously owned a '97 v6 camaro). firstly, i noticed that the best place to learn is on an open, empty road, where spinning out of control, doing 360s, or even sliding off the road won't hurt you, the car, or others; although, i sure hope none of the above happen in any situation, nevertheless, it's best to take the necessary precautions.

having said those undoubtedly wise words, i learned this by doing the moronically obvious: accelerating on a somewhat tight road, and even worse, doing so at night. well, i began this extravaganza by taking a moderate corner at a moderate speed, putting the car in second, and giving it about half throttle. what i've just said isn't driving stupid-like either; i'm not a bad driver. but this was too unpredictable for me: the second i came around the curve, i began sliding towards the curb, and behind the curb, trees. it was strange; i have 275 tires, and wouldn't think i would have such a problem at such a low speed (~30 mph) in 2nd gear at half throttle. it was really cold out (kumho's suck in the cold), but it wasn't wet at all. and it wasn't a fishtail that happened - so turning into the slide would have been silly, and just gotten me closer to the curb at a quicker pace. obviously, the brakes wouldn't have been good, because i would probably have slid more. so, what did i do? i just let off the accelerator a little (still a little gas), just enough to slow myself down for the car to gain proper traction. well, it worked, but i was still scared that i slid.

and also, when accelerating, even in a stock ls1, it's hard to always get traction. duh. when this happens, the inevitable, fishtails, begin. i know the best way to correct them is to turn into them, but sometimes i find myself (mostly because i have an m6, and therefore, correcting fishtails with one hand is slightly more difficult) over and/or under correcting, and ending up fishtailing towards the other direction, or continuing to fishtail in the same direction respectively, which pushes me back to square one.

the slide was scary. the fishtailing doesn't bother me nearly as much, because i'm somewhat used to it from my last car, and also from a really bad experience where i saved 4 lives by reaching across a passenger seat in a mazda protege to correct a hardcore highspeed fishtail my ex-girlfriend almost killed us with. therefore, fishtailing is a little scary to most, including me, but i feel like i'm getting it down, and don't fear it nearly as much on the road as sliding... and the sliding thing scared the **** out of me. i thought there was a possibility i was going to hit the curb, and maybe even go over the curb into the woods. and i wasn't going but about 30mph.

so, my question is how in the hell do i correct the car if i go into such a slide? and my other question - what is the best way to contain fishtails so as to not under/over correct, and feel like you have more control over the car? the ls1 traction problems are not consistent and are easily unpredictable, so i would like anyone who has experiences and/or can give me good advice, to jump in and do so. thanks

and also, have any of you others had such close calls? or even closer calls?

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I hate to go for the obvious. But, you need to take your time getting used to the HP difference in this car before you get yourself and/or others hurt. I don't want to sound like I'm dishing out "lecture material", I just hate to see anyone damage their car and possibly hurt themselves while learning the characteristics of that car. With that said.

I'd suggest a trip to your local autocross. You may whack a few cones, but you'll learn what the car can and can't do (with little to no danger to yourself and others). Otherwise, I'd suggest a trip to Amazon.com to dig up a few different books. One is by Bob Bonderaunt (sorry for the butchered spelling) and there is one called "drive to win" with a forward by Danny Sulivan. Again, these are not suggested to insult your driving ability (if I were here to do that, I'd have made it short and sweet, pissed you off and been on my way), but are suggested because they cover the "traction circle" and will familiarize you with some of the dynamics of weight transfer (such as, when the rear of a car gets light going into a curve why it is a bad idea to slam on the brakes....the weight further unloads the rear tires, removes traction and a spin becomes almost guarenteed. However, you should always remember "in a spin, both feet in", if you really lose it, jam one foot on the brakes and one on the clutch pedal...usually you'll not spin far after doing that). I think the information on chassis dynamics and such will be a great benefit when trying to keep up with a 300+ hp car on street tires (which can be a trick sometimes). I suggest those for starters and am certain you can and likley will get a discussion on chassis dynamics going very shortly (that tends to happen around here).

But, in the interest of safety, I'd suggest slowing down and working slowly up to the limits of the vehicle. You've already noticed that it is not difficult to exceed those limits with potentially ugly results.

Keep the shiny side up and be safe!

My thoughts.

TaTommyWS6

Dude, relax and get used to your car first. You just don't have the experience yet. When you do get used to it, you won't need anyone to explain this to you. You are going to wreck a nice car, and probably yourself if you don't take it easy at first... These cars can be an absolute blast as far an entertainment value goes, but the fun can end VERY quickly if you are not careful.

Good luck.

Tommy

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

By the way. "In a spin, both feet in" is for the time when you've already lost it and are along for the ride. If you get a little loose and do that, you'll spin it for sure.

tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

thanks for the advice and replies. well, i didn't mean to make myself sound as if i was a maniac for a driver, because i really am not at all; as a matter of a fact, i consider myself a better-than-average driver. and yes, i'm not used to the power, and yes, i'm not used to one-handed driving either, and yes, like most, i occasionally feel the need to showoff. for anyone, good or bad driver, these things can be dangerous, or deadly. "getting used to the power" is something that i am doing, but how is one supposed to do that by "taking it easy?" after all, i don't floor it every corner i go around, and i don't take any 60+ punches to 120+ for ***** and giggles. i am merely driving the car as safely, while learning the car as safely, as i possibly can. in other words, i don't think i quite understand what "take it easy" is supposed to mean. all of the guys on this board that had a stock ls1, and then put a supercharger on it, and suddenly it's pushing 500+ horsepower are having just the same bit of adjusting to learn as well as me, even though they are going from a lot of power to a lot more of power. saying that i'm gonna wreck the car soon is a little bit scary for me to hear actually, when, in fact, i don't feel that out of control at all. i haven't slid before, and this was the first time, and it scared me. i posted about it, i didn't intend to freak people out and convince them i was an awful driver. like you said, i like to be safe, and not sorry, which is why i asked for advice, instead of telling myself i would be careful from now on and never mentioning it to anyone ever again. but what if it incidentally happens another time? that's why i posted. if someone would explain "taking it easy" to me, i might not be quite so defensive, and instead, understand how one is supposed to learn a car by "taking it easy" primarily.

Mike 01WS6

A slide can happen in any car....it happened in my Viper before, but I just let off the gas, break checked and was back on my way. It doesn't matter how good of a driver you are, you can still get into trouble easily by pushing a powerful car hard on the street. The street is very inconsistant as far as traction conditions. What was a stick stretch of road could turn into a nightmare for traction a hundred feet ahead. I have had my WS6 for 2 and a half years and am still learning more and more about the limits of the car. The solid rear end is a very unforgiving thing. It does not "catch itself" very easily and often requires a lot of correction when in a fishtail.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

This is a kinder, gentler response ...

Being new to a car's power and handling characteristics is not an excuse. One needs to learn the edges of one's skill and apply that as opposed to finding the edge of a car's performance. Applying the first will eventually meet the second.

I contend the car handled predictably, you were just in over your head. It happens. All of us have been there.

Cold tires on a cold road is the first thing a good driver needs to consider. Grip is king.

Taking all of that into consideration, it sounds like you just over drove the car, plain and simple.

You were scared? Good! Fear is a very good deterent from doing dumb things.

The only time your right hand should be on the shifter is when you are shifting. Look at ANY in car video of a race car driver and you will see that BOTH hands on the wheel if THE way to drive. No excuses for that.

With the seat leaned way back, hunkered down in the seat so that just the top of your head is visible through the side glass, propped up by you right elbow resting on the console and your left hand draped across the top of the steering wheel while gangsta music is running at 11 on the dial is no posture to be able to handle a situation like you found yourself in.

Simple answer to your questions ... throttle management. You plant the right foot, eventually bad things will happen. I don't care if you are PeeWee Herman or Micheal Schumacher ...

Have I had similar experiences? Sure ... I was 19, thought I was Mario Andretti, was showing off to some friends and planted a Vega in a ditch nose first.

Learn from your mistakes, grasshopper.

TaTommyWS6

Tuffluck,
Look, everyone could certainly give you useful, technical information on how to do powerslides, heel to toe manevours, etc..., but I just got the impression from your original post that you need a little more time just "driving" the car before you start pushing its limits.
For example, I took a racing class at Skip Barber Racing School, and the first 10 laps of so, guess what... We "took it easy!!!" And we were in formula one style race cars tjhat handled incredibly, but no way is anyone going to learn by pushing the cars limits immediately. There are so many nuances that you will learn about from just driving your car normally for a while. Then when you get more accustomed to having the power on tap, then you can start to push it more.
The saleman from the dealership where I purchased my TranAm told me that the last THREE TransAms he sold got totalled in a few months!!! People just didn't "take it easy" at first
That aside, I'm no friggin' straight edge non-risk taking guy. I ride motorcycles and cars WAY to fast on occassion, but I have worked up to it. I don't want to sound like someone's dad telling you not to speed, but there is an art to it, and experience in the best teacher, and experience takes time, and it takes small steps. I don't want to see someone, like you, who is very enthusiastic about his new car have his dreams come to a screetching halt. You have an awsome car, and you will no doubt enjoy it for years to come! I was in no way trying to put you on the defensive, I was only trying to offer simple advice. Sometimes if people don't throw enough smiley faces in there posts, people might think they are being mean

Anyway, Good luck and have fun!

Tommy

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Forward into a ditch? Anyone can do that. I managed to get nearly stopped as I parked my '89 Formula into a dirt wall....backwards. The judges gave it a 9.6.

Shane

Tuffluck... www.spokes.org Several of the local f-body crowd participate in these events (including myself when time permits). Come out and watch, catch a few rides, and enter. You will learn more about how your car handles in one day than you would in a year of messing around on the street - and it will be a lot safer as well.
Shane