Advanced Engineering Tech - heat soak

dose a aluminum intake like a bbk incur heat soak,and effect power levels?

you should of done a search...yes/no is it worth it....NO but if your scared of a nitrous backfire then get it. sooooooo many ppl with it says its good soooooooooo many ppl also say hell no. if i were you stick with a ls6 intake, they make more power

I have a fast already.I feel a cast aluminum intake being porous will absorb heat from the heads and retain it.I read where people have seen some power drops after a few pulls.I hear a few people that say this is a myth.

Its a myth. Aluminum intakes have been on cars for far longer than plastic ones and have never had any issues. Looking at a BBK, the intake does not even sit on the heads. It sits on gaskets, so there is no metal to metal contact to begin with.

For the record, I have gone from LS6 to a BBK and felt a SOTP gain. I also ran my bbk at the track last night, and the car pulled just the same at pass 20 as it did on pass 2, and I never once let the car cool in between. I made 22 passes and the last few were actually the fastest.

the alum intakes have great runner design.did you make a run with the engine stone cold?the engine and intake came up to max temp quickly ,the intake temp between the 1 run and the last run was probably the same .the intake dose not need to touch the head to absorb heat.has any one used a temp gun and pointed it at a intake before and during testing? could the air temp and air density have improve towards the end of you day at the track?the alum intake has more mass,I feel it will retain more heat longer.which intake will cool down faster?

the nylon intakes will never retain as much heat as a casting.
ive owned the lpe/holley intake and improved performnce significantly over the stock ls1 manifold it replaced. sure it was hotter to the touch after hard runs or continuous street time.

Okay, the horse is beat but lets give it one more whack. Here we go:

Will the aluminum intake be hotter on average? Yes.
Will it make a difference and/or cause you to notice loss of power? No.

Get the one you like. If you want to run nitrous and feel you need a metal one, go for it. The difference of power from the beaten-to-death heat soak is probably far less than the amount of power it would take to move the extra 10 lbs of metal intake, which is to say you won't notice a thing. I keep seeing these threads where people act like an aluminum intake is going to cause them to loose 100hp as soon as the car gets up to temp, and I was trying to show you based on my experience at the track with it that I didn't suffer any losses. I drove 40 minutes to the track, tech'd, ran 22 runs back to back, and went home. Oh, and when I got home I could touch my intake manifold just fine, just like a plastic one.

the most a alum intake will lose is 5-10 hp when warmed up,wanted to hear other peoples thoughts on this subject.would your car make more power if your first pull was when the intake was stone could?I feel if a person can get a alum intake for under $300 ,it is a good deal.has any one used a temp gun to test a ls1 intake alum or plastic during a dyno pull?I already have a intake .I hear things and like to find out if they are true or not.

Do you have proof of that loss? I'm curious to see it. Also, if I can find one of those infrared temp guns I will take the temp of my intake a couple of times after different driving conditions and post it up.

if the intake was stone cold the air moving through the intake would be cooler.when the intake warms up the air will be warmer.it would be interesting to check the temp of a plastic intake also ,to see if they retain some heat.would E-85 help a alum intake make more power.

if the intake was stone cold the air moving through the intake would be cooler.when the intake warms up the air will be warmer.it would be interesting to check the temp of a plastic intake also ,to see if they retain some heat.would E-85 help a alum intake make more power.

not true. at all. at wot, the air moving through any intake, is moving plenty fast enough to not have time to warm up the air. it would be interesting to see what actual mph the air is moving thru the intake runner.

The air moves through the hot cylinder head too.. I don't hear people bitching about heat soak from their cylinder heads..

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/general-lsx-automobile-discussion/1289279-what-better-aluminum-intake.html

had to....

Alright, does anyone have a suggestion on how to go about recording some data about this? I have a BBK on my car now, and I have an LS6 in the garage that can go on. If I can figure out what to do, I can take temps and such and post ACTUAL RESULTS, not hearsay and guesstimates. I'm thinking use one of those infrared sensors to take the outside temp, and then maybe one of those flat heat probes you use on computer parts to put inside the manifold if I can figure out how to secure it so take the inside temp? Any suggestions? I am really curious about it now so I think I will do the legwork and find out the answers.

you should of done a search...yes/no is it worth it....NO but if your scared of a nitrous backfire then get it. sooooooo many ppl with it says its good soooooooooo many ppl also say hell no. if i were you stick with a ls6 intake, they make more power

FALSE!!!! :eyes:

I've actually seen back to back dyno's of the BBK making more than the LS6

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FACTS:

The BBK WILL be hotter than the LS6. When living in Phoenix for the past 2 years I could probably boil an egg on my BBK. Half of that could attribute to the 120 degree heat outside as well. Living in one of the hottest areas in the US I can attest to say that I noticed NO difference in the way the car performed on a cold start to what it performed like after a full day of driving around.

Heat Soak? Yes the intake gets hot as shit, it's metal... does it hurt your performance? I vote no, seeing as pretty much all top performing race cars use metal intakes. I have yet to see any proof of heat soak being a true theory. I haven't noticed any performance loss what so ever. Most people jump on the badwagon and yell "Heat Soak" without having any personal experience or proof to back up their claim.

It makes more power than the LS6, and is great for boost or nitrous while also allowing porting options. The ONLY downside I see over the LS6 is the weight difference. But unless your building an all out drag car where every little itty bitty pound counts then I don't see that being a problem.

I think what people are getting away from when they say "FAST" cars is that most "FAST" cars are not really and truely street driving, or daily driven.

Heat Soak is most certainly an issue. Getting that IAT as low as it can be does make more power. FI guys always have to fight this fact. But N/A guys it does not seem to make a difference once the intake is hot.

What I will say is this past weekend I had to fix a vaccume leak on my LS6 intake. I decided for the fun of it run a scanner and let the car go from dead cold ambient temp of roughly 72 Degrees (the car was in the garage), The IAT read the same temp. Just simply starting the motor to allow the car to get the coolant to temp the IAT's increased as well.

By the time the car got to closed loop I was watching real time the IAT creeping up to over 90. The car had a SLP LID, stock P/P TB and a un modified LS6.

Having owned High COMP LT1's there was certainly a difference at the track if I iced the crap out of the intake and basically pushed to the line and started it at the last possible moment.

So as a thought piece I throw it out there that as much as people say heat soak is not an issue I say that on a street driven car it does matter. There are gimmicks out there like the bag you can strap to the motor and put in ICE cold gel packets and have been proven to gain a tenth or 2.

I choose not to run one as it does not reflect real street useage but if you needed to gain a tenth, thats a trick you can use.

One other point to make about heat soak is that for bracket racing, a car that was ALWAYS hot tend to be consistant. They may not break any PB times but I have won a few events because I did not let the car cool down regardless of the ambient temp or DA. For Fuel Injected cars it can make a diff.

Sure, the aluminum will rise to underhood air temp at
low airflows.

The relevant question is, how much will that hot intake
raise the air temp as it slides on through at something
like 700 ft/sec (or spending about 3mSec in the oven)
at high RPM WOT.

Qualitatively I'd say, "not much". Some thermodynamics
expert wants to put better numbers to it, please do.

The air moves through the hot cylinder head too.. I don't hear people bitching about heat soak from their cylinder heads..

Actually some people coat the insides of the intake and exhaust ports to stop heat absorbtion to and from the head......

Actually some people coat the insides of the intake and exhaust ports to stop heat absorbtion to and from the head......

who? old school hot rodders that beleive everything they hear?

who? old school hot rodders that beleive everything they hear?

i have seen a few builds that are doing it. in theory it should make a difference, esp on the exhaust side. however i haven't see any back to back testing. so i guess you cant prove or disprove the idea! ;)

Where is the IAT sensor at, the one on my truck is in the maf so it doesnt measure actual intake air temp, it measures incoming air temp

I had a BBK on my f14 cam and heads motor. Made 450/400 never lost any power on the dyno after several pulls.

At the track, it consistantly went 96MPH in the 1/8 mile. Doesnt seem like there is a power loss to me with the heat. Once the inside of the intake has been ported/cleaned up its a fairly nice piece. My only complaint about it is the poor sealing of the bottom plate. I just welded mine shut!

on a dyno yes it will run a bit warmer while sitting still. On the road the intakes will run at the same temp...as someone stated before the air flows through the heads which will run hotter than any intake.

This heat soak AL vs Plastic thing gets blown out of proportion. I was just drivability tuning a 2000 Corvette with a FAST 90 and the damn thing was so hot you couldn't touch it after a 50mile cruise...

I've got an aluminam and if I drive down the block and back I can't get any were near that motor as far as radiant heat it takes a good fourty five min. befor I can even stick my head in there. The other day a guy pulled up next to me at the pump and poped the hood he had H/C/and fast intake he left run the hole time and it was definatly cool enouf to touch. But the alum is prolly what's holdin my beast together!! I'm thinkin it's what peeled my clearcoat off my hood

would a alum intake act like a intercooler when using E-85?

would a alum intake act like a intercooler when using E-85?

ermmmm no! why would an intercooler work diffrently with a diffrent fuel?....

I wouldn't think non-carbed intake would, but to some degree it would make sense that a carbed intake might dissipate heat differently because of the higher alcohol content in the fuel. Good question that may never really get an answer any different than the "heat soak" questions :D

ermmmm no! why would an intercooler work diffrently with a diffrent fuel?....

latent heat of vaporization

When a substance changes phase, the arrangement of its molecules changes, but its temperature does not change. If the new arrangement has a higher amount of thermal energy, the substance must absorb thermal energy from its environment in order to make the phase change. If the new arrangement has a lower amount of thermal energy,the substance must release thermal energy to its environment.

The additional ethanol content in e85 results in the removal of more heat than pure gasoline during it's phase change.

latent heat of vaporization

When a substance changes phase, the arrangement of its molecules changes, but its temperature does not change. If the new arrangement has a higher amount of thermal energy, the substance must absorb thermal energy from its environment in order to make the phase change. If the new arrangement has a lower amount of thermal energy,the substance must release thermal energy to its environment.

The additional ethanol content in e85 results in the removal of more heat than pure gasoline during it's phase change.

That dosen't mean the ally intake is acking as an intercooler! it just means you are using fuel to cool your intake! great so you are evaporating fuel in the intake manifold. that gas then takes up volume that could be filled by air... so you are pontenically making less power. this is why N2O guys like direct port setups. the N2O dosen't have time to evaporate and take up space that could be filled by air. On a FI setup there is advantages to fuel evaporation as the coling effect is helps increase the air density and thus potencial power. But thats on air temps that are WELL over ambient and they are not trying to cool intakes or intercoolers with the air!

Aslo where are you planning on adding the fuel???? if its in the normal location there will be very little time for the fuel to absob any heat even from the intake manifold.....

Just my thought sn and would be happy to be proven wrong. :)